Modesty

[Lea101]

Hey guys, I’m new here so forgive me if this is in the wrong forum.

I just have a question about modesty. So what I know about it is that girls are not allowed to wear certain items they want and they have to cover up certain parts of their body or else men will lust over them (you can say men have to wear modest clothing too. But come on, hardly anyone cares if men walk around in “immodest clothing”. In fact, is there such thing as immodest clothing for men??? Anyway back to the point)

But what if the girl that is wearing immodest clothing is not attractive at all? Like no sane person will lust over an 80 year old woman wearing a short skirt. I’m just asking this because I am genuinely curious. I’m turning 18 this year, but I am noooooooowhere near attractive. In fact, I probably scare the guys away

I generally do not wear immodest clothing (I feel uncomfortable showing my body. Again let me emphasise that I look like a troll) but I do wear short skirts (at least mid thigh) and from what I see here, that is such a huge no-no. But because I am only 5"0, knee length skirts make me look shorter and more child like. I already have a baby face :bighanky:

So is this wrong? Nobody is lusting after me, trust me. I just feel like I cannot wear long skirts without looking like an infant. And whenever I wear knee-length skirts, it has to be tight and fitting instead of a more flowy kind. And apparently that is wrong too. But I don’t understand why] it is, especially since I don’t wear it to entice men, and that it’s not like my body is hot (I am underweight, so no curves or anything nice). So since I am not attracting anybody, it’s not wrong??? And also, I live in skinny jeans, is there anything wrong about that too? All of the threads I read always ends up in a fight and the original question never gets answered so PLEASE LET US NOT and just help me out

 

[CRATUS]

Hey guys, I’m new here so forgive me if this is in the wrong forum.

I just have a question about modesty. So what I know about it is that girls are not allowed to wear certain items they want and they have to cover up certain parts of their body or else men will lust over them (you can say men have to wear modest clothing too. But come on, hardly anyone cares if men walk around in “immodest clothing”. In fact, is there such thing as immodest clothing for men??? Anyway back to the point)

But what if the girl that is wearing immodest clothing is not attractive at all? Like no sane person will lust over an 80 year old woman wearing a short skirt. I’m just asking this because I am genuinely curious. I’m turning 18 this year, but I am noooooooowhere near attractive. In fact, I probably scare the guys away

I generally do not wear immodest clothing (I feel uncomfortable showing my body. Again let me emphasise that I look like a troll) but I do wear short skirts (at least mid thigh) and from what I see here, that is such a huge no-no. But because I am only 5"0, knee length skirts make me look shorter and more child like. I already have a baby face :bighanky:

So is this wrong? Nobody is lusting after me, trust me. I just feel like I cannot wear long skirts without looking like an infant. And whenever I wear knee-length skirts, it has to be tight and fitting instead of a more flowy kind. And apparently that is wrong too. But I don’t understand why] it is, especially since I don’t wear it to entice men, and that it’s not like my body is hot (I am underweight, so no curves or anything nice). So since I am not attracting anybody, it’s not wrong??? And also, I live in skinny jeans, is there anything wrong about that too? All of the threads I read always ends up in a fight and the original question never gets answered so PLEASE LET US NOT and just help me out

I doubt you are unattractive. Not too many 18 year old girls are ugly. Actually I think most women in general are pretty, if they cared for themselves properly. For me, modesty means no cleavage is showing (butt or breasts), no butt folds/creases are showing, no navel, and nothing too tight. That is my definition of modesty. I guess if you are wearing anything to entice male attention then it is impure. That is difficult some days I want to look sexy just in case I run into my crush.

 

[GEddie]

Modesty is not about inches of hidden skin, it is about certain attitudes toward and ways of “wearing your body.”

It is possible to be immodest in full-body clothing, and it is possible to be modest while letting a great deal of your skin breathe.

As long as you do not dress so as to draw attention to the “sexual areas” of the body, and are not dressing or acting in a manner to draw male attention, I’d say you are OK.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Murmurs]

First of all - I’m sure you don’t scare guys away!

Second of all - there isn’t a hard and fast rule I think, and the last thing any woman (or man) should do IMO is assume that Western standards of ‘modesty’ of between 50 and 100 years ago automatically apply today, anywhere, at least without thought.

I think a lot of it is about what is in a particular context (time or place) appropriate; I would never wear a skirt or dress shorter than knee-length (and usually longer to be honest) to Mass - it would be fine if I went to a cocktail party. And what is appropriate in London might not be what’s similarly culturally appropriate in Papua New Guinea, for that matter. (Among my undoubtedly-many vices though is to be a bit of a clothes horse so perhaps don’t let me encourage you to change clothes 5 times a day!)

A big part of me says “it’s a man’s problem if he gets particular thoughts from looking at me…” - though while this is certainly the case I’m not sure women should be dressing in such a way as to encourage them more than necessary. All that said - intention is important and frankly if you don’t mean to entice people to look, then it shouldn’t matter one jot if they do or not, unless those looks make you feel uncomfortable. Do, and wear, what you want! - but moderately.

(So, a hypothetical “ugly woman”, in meaning to look at sexy as she possibly can, probably does more against modesty than the “hot woman” who just wears whatever makes her feel comfortable).

There’s certainly nothing wrong with skinny jeans per se; though I might suggest that if one is trying to be “modest” then pairing it with a much looser-fitting top (perhaps in a style long enough to cover what’s going on behind?) might match up well.

Above all the last thing anyone should do is feel like they should be walking around in Catholic hijab. I would say that if anything you wear or want to wear makes you wonder “is this as modest as I’d prefer?” - then it probably isn’t. But, if you pull on jeans without a second thought and feel great in them - then keep right on with them

PS. Shirtless men unless they’re at the beach or starring in Poldark? That’s totally immodest, frankly. Especially if women can’t walk around similarly attired without having awkward conversations with policemen…

 

[Memaw]

Modesty is not about inches of hidden skin, it is about certain attitudes toward and ways of “wearing your body.”

It is possible to be immodest in full-body clothing, and it is possible to be modest while letting a great deal of your skin breathe.

As long as you do not dress so as to draw attention to the “sexual areas” of the body, and are not dressing or acting in a manner to draw male attention, I’d say you are OK.

ICXC NIKA

How in the world is it possible to be “modest” while letting a great deal of your skin breathe??? Wearing immodest clothing IS wanting to attract attention to the body, or one wouldn’t even wear them. It is possible to dress decently and still be attractive. Queen Elizabeth does all the time and always has!. She looks like a real Lady. God Bless. Memaw

 

[Used2beSherryG]

If you are worried that your manner of dress is immodest, then it probably is. Wear clothes that look like they fit, not those that are one or two sizes too small for you. Keep your cleavage covered and you do have some even if small breasted. Do not cause a near occasion of sin for others. As a general guideline, think if you might be embarrassed to be seen in your outfit by anyone at all and you will be ok.

 

[Lea101]

If you are worried that your manner of dress is immodest, then it probably is. Wear clothes that look like they fit, not those that are one or two sizes too small for you. Keep your cleavage covered and you do have some even if small breasted. Do not cause a near occasion of sin for others. As a general guideline, think if you might be embarrassed to be seen in your outfit by anyone at all and you will be ok.

You see, that’s my problem. If I were to meet Mary or Jesus in one of my skirts (slightly below mid thigh), I would not be ashamed at all. But I still don’t know if it’s because I suck or if it’s because there’s nothing wrong with the way I dress. I live in a tropical, humid country so it’s common to see people wearing things that are extremely revealing, so my father thinks what I’m wearing so far is modest (Or at least I think so, he never commented on my clothes, and he is the type of person that would say something if it’s wrong)

 

[Memaw]

You see, that’s my problem. If I were to meet Mary or Jesus in one of my skirts (slightly below mid thigh), I would not be ashamed at all. But I still don’t know if it’s because I suck or if it’s because there’s nothing wrong with the way I dress. I live in a tropical, humid country so it’s common to see people wearing things that are extremely revealing, so my father thinks what I’m wearing so far is modest (Or at least I think so, he never commented on my clothes, and he is the type of person that would say something if it’s wrong)

Still you must be concerned or you wouldn’t be here. Climate doesn’t have anything to do with true modesty. neither does"everybody’s doing it." Our Lady said at Fatima that fashions will offend Her SON gravely. She didn’t say, ‘except for humid countries.’ NO excuse for immodesty no matter what! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Vico]

Hey guys, I’m new here so forgive me if this is in the wrong forum.

I just have a question about modesty. So what I know about it is that girls are not allowed to wear certain items they want and they have to cover up certain parts of their body or else men will lust over them (you can say men have to wear modest clothing too. But come on, hardly anyone cares if men walk around in “immodest clothing”. In fact, is there such thing as immodest clothing for men??? Anyway back to the point)

But what if the girl that is wearing immodest clothing is not attractive at all? Like no sane person will lust over an 80 year old woman wearing a short skirt. I’m just asking this because I am genuinely curious. I’m turning 18 this year, but I am noooooooowhere near attractive. In fact, I probably scare the guys away

I generally do not wear immodest clothing (I feel uncomfortable showing my body. Again let me emphasise that I look like a troll) but I do wear short skirts (at least mid thigh) and from what I see here, that is such a huge no-no. But because I am only 5"0, knee length skirts make me look shorter and more child like. I already have a baby face :bighanky:

So is this wrong? Nobody is lusting after me, trust me. I just feel like I cannot wear long skirts without looking like an infant. And whenever I wear knee-length skirts, it has to be tight and fitting instead of a more flowy kind. And apparently that is wrong too. But I don’t understand why] it is, especially since I don’t wear it to entice men, and that it’s not like my body is hot (I am underweight, so no curves or anything nice). So since I am not attracting anybody, it’s not wrong??? And also, I live in skinny jeans, is there anything wrong about that too? All of the threads I read always ends up in a fight and the original question never gets answered so PLEASE LET US NOT and just help me out

Sins can be in thought, action, or omission, so there are many things to consider. In the case of the virtue of modesty, it means to be moderate rather than ostentatious, proud, or unrestrained, and the practice will vary depending on the situation. If very expensive items are worn, this may invoke envy. If revealing, it may powerfully present the body as an object to be enjoyed. So it may be difficult to anticipate the reaction of others, and it is not simply about sexuality. Also, some people may be sexually excited by exhibition, a partial exposure done to getting looked at.

Scandal is leading others into sin, which can be from something that is not a sin for you. St. Paul gave the example of eating meat from a pagan offering, which he avoided so as to not lead others into error. If to majority are giving scandal, it is still important to give a good Christian witness by avoiding giving scandal.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

The rules of modesty for skirts/pants for women is that they shouldn’t go above the knee nor be tightfitting (this includes skinny jeans). This applies to people of all levels of attractiveness and of every age, regardless of whether they are intending to be enticing to men or not. Even if you think you are unattractive, some men might still be tempted if you dress lasciviously.

Yes, there are rules of modesty for men. They should not wear sleeveless shirts, have shorts that go above the knee, nor have tightfitting clothing. These rules are not stressed as much since men tend to be more modest than women (although recently it seems men are dressing trashier and less modestly, as are women). My parish has a modesty dress code and it includes both men and women.

 

[Lisa_De_Ruyter]

At …37:00…Mother Miriam on June 7, 2016, on Immaculate Heart Radio (station-930 AM) was speaking on teaching our sons/daughters that their beauty is their virtues and how important it is for a father to spend time loving and teaching their daughter to dress with true modesty .etc…she says quote: " husbands the same with you 100%… to be home with your wife …home with your children …lay down your life for them , lay down your life for them…if you have young daughters and you don’t spend time with them and take them on dates and know what is going on in their lives and if you let them dress immodesty to keep up with the other girls, if you don’t teach them how beautiful their virtues are and you don’t teach them their inner self worth and they think what they look like is going to be the basis of whether they will be excepted or not, they will be in trouble …but you be a father who says sweetheart, …I know people dress with tight clothes but you are the most beautiful Soul in the world and God has created you with great beauty and dignity and you are sacred and sacred things are not to be exposed they are to be majestically covered with lace and fine materials and beautiful things because they are a mystery and there sacred and there not to be uncovered before the world …you see…and… well all right daddy if you say so …yes sweetheart I do…come-on, well I’ll even go shopping with you and we’ll pick out some good things, and don’t you let her wear anything above her knees, and don’t you let her wear anything low cut, and nothing that’s tight. and not even sleeveless, let her be a beautiful, beautiful woman, and let her feel beautiful, buy her a corsage… even a hat …take her to dinner with her new outfit and speak to her as a father and build into her life, and when she is old enough to date do it from the time she’s ten years old on …when she is old enough to date or even younger…she’ll want a husband like her dad rather…she’ll want a man like her dad…she won’t go looking for love in the wrong places …and that’s why most woman are with men and why eleven year olds get pregnant because they look for love…they look for love, and they judge the love of a man for them by how much he mistreats her often and …she gives in to things she wouldn’t otherwise give into …she gives in with great fear …much of the time but she needs love that desperately…she needs to be excepted and approved…dad if you pour your life into gulf and nights out with the men and other things rather than with your daughter …you are losing a life that God has made for Himself and over which he had given you stewardship …AND THE SAME WITH YOUR SON and you say what are you talking to dads for …how come not moms… don’t they get equal time, no they don’t…because the mother is home…in the typical house the father will work and the mother will be home…I know that’s not often the case but …that’s the design …that mothers will be home …God gave them the gift of nurturing and raising children and they would do that and keep a beautiful home, make dinner, keep the family together, teach the children and when dad comes home you should pour your life into that family not sit down in a chair and read a newspaper and keep the kids from you or go into your office and close the door, no you are destroying them if you do that …you are losing the treasure that God has given you …it is very very important …to spend time with your children …to know what happened in there day…to know about their friends…all of that…and your daughter will say "You know Papa, Paul asked me out, he wanted to do this and that…to go to a movie and you need to be able to sit there and talk to her about that man and ask her what he is like and she should go no place without your approval …you see…oh what a world it’s changed so so fast…parents, beloved parents don’t be afraid to parent …your job is not to be popular with your children…your job is to get them to heaven and keep them from hell…and I have met more parents who are afraid of their children …then who love them. Your love is very limited if you’re afraid of them …if you’re afraid that you won’t be in favor with them…that you will lose their love …that they’ll think you are not with it …that you’re not cool…everybody else’s parents love them but you don’t …no…if that’s your concern then you love yourself, not your children… …to love your children to lay down your life for them…and come before God and help them to discern before God …what is wise…what is good…what is holy …what will make them happy…which is only what is set apart for God and with God we wish for them…ok " … Also for more great information on modesty from Mother Miriam, from a caller that calls in go to:
ihradio.com/2016/06/heart-heart-mother-miriam-june-7-2016/

 

[Lisa_De_Ruyter]

also Saint Therese’s parents taught their children to follow the Magisterium’s our Catholic Church’s unchangeable guidelines and absolute norm to be what can only be called decent/modest in their home. (Standards of Modesty in Dress
Imprimatur dated Sept. 24, 1956
“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.” The Cardinal Vicar of Pius XI) …Their children were not allowed out of the house if their knees were not covered etc… and everyone who came to their home had to also follow the Magisterium’s rules or they were not allowed to enter. I read the two books written by Therese’s sister Celine - “The Mother of the Little Flower” and “The Father of the Little Flower”…They thought just about everyone one they knew were worldly… .All Catholics parents and married couples should read these books and imitate their example of parenting … Therese said that her parents were more worthy of heaven then earth…we must imitate Mother Mary and the saints if we want to get to heaven…no one should enter our homes dressed immodestly, out of love and respect for God and our neighbor, like Therese’s family.

 

[Rosebud77]

First of all - I’m sure you don’t scare guys away!

PS. Shirtless men unless they’re at the beach or starring in Poldark? That’s totally immodest, frankly. Especially if women can’t walk around similarly attired without having awkward conversations with policemen…

I have this horrible memory of realising that someone was in front of me at my market stall, looking up to find myself a few inches from a huge brown hairy “beer belly”

Folk on holiday , shudders…

 

[Rosebud77]

How in the world is it possible to be “modest” while letting a great deal of your skin breathe??? Wearing immodest clothing IS wanting to attract attention to the body, or one wouldn’t even wear them. It is possible to dress decently and still be attractive. Queen Elizabeth does all the time and always has!. She looks like a real Lady. God Bless. Memaw

true… Modesty is truly in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

There have been dozens if not 100s of threads on the subject of modesty here over the years. They usually end up in a big argument; everyone has a different opinion, no one is willing to give an inch, and the moderators usually end up closing the thread down.

Having said that, my personal belief is that modesty is a cultural thing. What is modest to some cultures may be immodest to others and even subgroups within a society may set their own rules. For example, here in the United States, Amish communities and different rules of modesty than do, say, beach communities of Florida or California. It is largely based on what your community considers acceptable or not. If you step outside your group, you need to be mindful of what another group may think. When in Rome, do as the Romans do, as the old saying goes.

In Western societies, you generally need to keep yourself covered up whereas in tribal societies living in Africa, South America or Australia, that isn’t necessarily so. (We’ve all seen those pictures in National Geographic magazines).

But getting back to your original question, I suppose it depends on where you are going and/or what you are doing. If you are going to Church, Court, or a Funeral, you should probably dress conservatively and go with a longer skirt. In more relaxed environments, you could probably lighten up a little.

Now some people here are going to insist you wear a burka wherever you go so there is that.

My :twocents:

 

[mommy_k]

To the op-- i am small too, and find that long skirts elongate especially with nice high heels, or a stacked wedge shoe.

Dressing modestly can be elegant and feminine… When someone has dignity in dressing, people relate to them that way. Dressing modestly also carries over to modesty in speech and demeanor as well.

 

[Lea101]

I don’t know how this thread was resurrected

In Western societies, you generally need to keep yourself covered up whereas in tribal societies living in Africa, South America or Australia, that isn’t necessarily so. (We’ve all seen those pictures in National Geographic magazines).

But getting back to your original question, I suppose it depends on where you are going and/or what you are doing. If you are going to Church, Court, or a Funeral, you should probably dress conservatively and go with a longer skirt. In more relaxed environments, you could probably lighten up a little.

Now some people here are going to insist you wear a burka wherever you go so there is that.

My :twocents:

that’s actually still the problem I have here. In school, we have presentations and we need to dress up in formal attire (button down shirt, pencil skirt/pants)…and 99% of the girls, including yours truly, have skirts that are a couple of inches above our knees…in fact, the whole “knee or lower” rule seems so odd to us. and the culture is not that different to the US? In fact, Americans might say we are a tad more conservative

 

[Lea101]

To the op-- i am small too, and find that long skirts elongate especially with nice high heels, or a stacked wedge shoe.

Dressing modestly can be elegant and feminine… When someone has dignity in dressing, people relate to them that way. Dressing modestly also carries over to modesty in speech and demeanor as well.

I’m a little below 5"0/152cm (with a baby face). Maxi/long skirts still makes me look teeny, which is a shame because I do like the look of them as well. I need to start living in 9 inch platform heels

 

[matthewww]

wife and daughter wears skinny jeans, form fitting clothes-not too tight though, fabric should not look like it’s struggling -and dresses that are above the knee-not too above the knee, 2-3 inches. Cleavage, midriff, a lot of thigh are a no no. Clothes should not reveal underwear (if you are wearing a spaghetti strap top/dress, wear a strapless bra and make sure that the neckline is appropriate). No weird cut off parts-apparently I see dresses with bits missing to show skin. Other than that, anything goes. The clothes that meet these guidelines are generally modest in western culture. No need to worryyyyyy. modesty is not always about skin…which is why the church does not have concrete guidelines for it-it varies from one place to another. funny enough, some women who are completely covered could commit the sin of immodesty.

men should be modest too, but it’s a complicated issue most of our clothes generally cover us up. and some clothes cause lust too (suits, apparently. girls go crazy). modesty is harder for men, too hard that nobody cares and pretend that women are not visual as well

 

[Memaw]

To the op-- i am small too, and find that long skirts elongate especially with nice high heels, or a stacked wedge shoe.

Dressing modestly can be elegant and feminine… When someone has dignity in dressing, people relate to them that way. Dressing modestly also carries over to modesty in speech and demeanor as well.

AMEN !! God Bless, Memaw