Mohammad and Zainab

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I am still curious about this and hope to get more insight into it.

My first curiousity – how is that Mohammad happened to be in Zainab chamber and saw her naked? I mean don’t you knock first or at least, “knock, knock, anybody there?”.

**“The Messenger of God went out one day seeking him. On Zaid’s door was a curtain, which the wind moved to show her unveiled in her chamber. The heart of the Prophet was stricken by admiration for her” (Annals of al-Tabari, 2:453).
"The Messenger of God saw her after he married her off, and he was deeply moved by her. Then he said, “Praise be to Him, who changes the hearts!” (al-Tabari -commentary, 22:12; al-Kashshaf, 2:359)***
 
I am still curious about this and hope to get more insight into it.

My first curiousity – how is that Mohammad happened to be in Zainab chamber and saw her naked? I mean don’t you knock first or at least, “knock, knock, anybody there?”.

**“The Messenger of God went out one day seeking him. On Zaid’s door was a curtain, which the wind moved to show her unveiled in her chamber. The heart of the Prophet was stricken by admiration for her” (Annals of al-Tabari, 2:453).
"The Messenger of God saw her after he married her off, and he was deeply moved by her. Then he said, “Praise be to Him, who changes the hearts!” (al-Tabari -commentary, 22:12; al-Kashshaf, 2:359)***
All these are not authenticated hadeeths. this incident did not happen as per authenticated muslim history. The issue is that God ordered Muhammed o marry Zainab. This marriage proved that adoption is not a real lineage . Nor in islam it is permessiable to call a kidd that is bieng adopted except by his real name .

I am not sure if youa re familiar with teh story beyound what you quoted .
 
All these are not authenticated hadeeths. this incident did not happen as per authenticated muslim history. The issue is that God ordered Muhammed o marry Zainab. This marriage proved that adoption is not a real lineage . Nor in islam it is permessiable to call a kidd that is bieng adopted except by his real name .

I am not sure if youa re familiar with teh story beyound what you quoted .
He might not be aware that there are inauthentic hadiths. I was actually unaware of this myself until it was brought to my attention by a few Muslim users.
 
All these are not authenticated hadeeths. this incident did not happen as per authenticated muslim history. The issue is that God ordered Muhammed o marry Zainab. This marriage proved that adoption is not a real lineage . Nor in islam it is permessiable to call a kidd that is bieng adopted except by his real name .

I am not sure if youa re familiar with teh story beyound what you quoted .
I heard this story being discussed and want to know more about its background. The gist of the story: Zaid was a slave purchased and Islamized by Mohammad. He was rewarded with a marriage to Zainab, Mohammad’s cousin. Mohammad married her after seeing her in her house and fell for her even though he already had four wives.

**“33.37”: And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah’s command shall be performed. **

Zaid confirmed that Mohammad wanted his wife and Allah gave it to him (Mohammad). I personally think this is a bizarre excuse for demonstrating that it is alright to marry your adopted son’s wife. The verse indicates that Mohammad did want Zainab and Zaid acquiesced.

What is the background for the verse 33:37 then? How did Mohammad want another man’s wife? Did he had any previous meeting or in company with her? How did the desire come about?
 
He might not be aware that there are inauthentic hadiths. I was actually unaware of this myself until it was brought to my attention by a few Muslim users.
Ok .

The issue is that befroe Islam people who adoprted children would basicly give hem their name and they become their sons . Islam forbade not teh care for the orphan itself but forbade the erasing of his orphan or adopted child’s lineage . Following this prohibition , came all other rules related with it.

Zayd was adopted by Muhammed before Islam. He used to be called Zayd son of Muhammed . The prophet Muhammed urged Zayd and Zeinab to marry . Zayd was very close to Muhammed’s heart and he wanted a good wife to him so he chose one of the best ladies in the tribe of Quraish to marry zayd. But Zaynab was not happy and demanded a divorce. It was granted for her.

Now God wanted to set the rule that zayd , although adopted by Muhammed , is not muhammed’s son . Yes Muhammed can be kind to him as a son but the rules of marriage and inheritance doesn’t apply to him as he is no he real lineage of Muhammed.

So to show arabia that their type of adoption is no longer valid , and that people will not be considered other people’s sons if they are no really that way , God ordered Muhammed to marry Zainab in order to set the rule that she was devorced from another man , not from Muhammed’s son.

The story that you quoted is known to be uncorroborated narrative . We have many of this in the islamic history, and shortly after the prophet’s death developed a science of Authentication of the narration and life of the prophet Muhammed. The narration that you can rely on are the ones described as ‘’ authenticated ‘’ or ‘‘correct’’ or ‘‘Saheeh’’.

There are 2 bookes hat are authenticated , Teh book of Bukhari and the Book of Muslim ( a scholar named that way , not the faith)

Al tabari is a general history book hat accepts anything that is told and leave others to judge , i is not an authenticated book.

hope i clarified.

best regards,

meedo
 
I heard this story being discussed and want to know more about its background. The gist of the story: Zaid was a slave purchased and Islamized by Mohammad. He was rewarded with a marriage to Zainab, Mohammad’s cousin. Mohammad married her after seeing her in her house and fell for her even though he already had four wives.

**“33.37”: And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah’s command shall be performed. **

Zaid confirmed that Mohammad wanted his wife and Allah gave it to him (Mohammad). I personally think this is a bizarre excuse for demonstrating that it is alright to marry your adopted son’s wife. The verse indicates that Mohammad did want Zainab and Zaid acquiesced.

What is the background for the verse 33:37 then? How did Mohammad want another man’s wife? Did he had any previous meeting or in company with her? How did the desire come about?
No the verse doesn’t say that . The verse said tha he concealed somthing from the people, that Allah brought ino the light . It is because he knew befroe hand the intent of God to revoke this marraige and set this example by ordering Muhammed to marry Zainab. I don’t understand what you don’t understand from the verse it is very clear. It is God that ordered this marriage to set the example for the reasons mentioned in the verse itself.

if muhammed really wanted Zainab he wouldnt have ordered Zayd rto marry her in the first place. he could have proposed to her and she would have accepted . Why wait and advice her to marry another man ?!
 
Ok .

The issue is that befroe Islam people who adoprted children would basicly give hem their name and they become their sons . Islam forbade not teh care for the orphan itself but forbade the erasing of his orphan or adopted child’s lineage . Following this prohibition , came all other rules related with it.

Zayd was adopted by Muhammed before Islam. He used to be called Zayd son of Muhammed . The prophet Muhammed urged Zayd and Zeinab to marry . Zayd was very close to Muhammed’s heart and he wanted a good wife to him so he chose one of the best ladies in the tribe of Quraish to marry zayd. But Zaynab was not happy and demanded a divorce. It was granted for her.

Now God wanted to set the rule that zayd , although adopted by Muhammed , is not muhammed’s son . Yes Muhammed can be kind to him as a son but the rules of marriage and inheritance doesn’t apply to him as he is no he real lineage of Muhammed.

So to show arabia that their type of adoption is no longer valid , and that people will not be considered other people’s sons if they are no really that way , God ordered Muhammed to marry Zainab in order to set the rule that she was devorced from another man , not from Muhammed’s son.

The story that you quoted is known to be uncorroborated narrative . We have many of this in the islamic history, and shortly after the prophet’s death developed a science of Authentication of the narration and life of the prophet Muhammed. The narration that you can rely on are the ones described as ‘’ authenticated ‘’ or ‘‘correct’’ or ‘‘Saheeh’’.

There are 2 bookes hat are authenticated , Teh book of Bukhari and the Book of Muslim ( a scholar named that way , not the faith)

Al tabari is a general history book hat accepts anything that is told and leave others to judge , i is not an authenticated book.

hope i clarified.

best regards,

meedo
Can you give reference to the hadeeth you quoted?

So you don’t believe that Mohammad had a desire for Zainab? That he married Zainab because Allah commanded him to?
 
The gist of the story: Zaid was a slave purchased and Islamized by Mohammad. He was rewarded with a marriage to Zainab, Mohammad’s cousin. Mohammad married her after seeing her in her house and fell for her even though he already had four wives.

umm wrong Muhammed doesnt reward zayd by his islam with his marriage. and This inccident that you describe didn’t happen. And muhammed no mroe islamize that jesus Chrisianized !!

I personally think this is a bizarre excuse for demonstrating that it is alright to marry your adopted son’s wife. The verse indicates that Mohammad did want Zainab and Zaid acquiesced.

and yet that is exactly what this verse came to make clear. This is not his son!! and adoption doesnt create a lineage . If it was his real sons wife ahe could never ofcourse have married her or thought about her but that is why teh verse came and ordered the setup to be that way.

What is the background for the verse 33:37 then?

I told you the background

How did Mohammad want another man’s wife? Did he had any previous meeting or in company with her? How did the desire come about?

he didn’t want somebody elses wife. Zaynab was getting a divorce any way . and it was already revealed by God that Muhammed was ordered to marry her . he wasnt in her company and there was no desire .
 
No the verse doesn’t say that . The verse said tha he concealed somthing from the people, that Allah brought ino the light . It is because he knew befroe hand the intent of God to revoke this marraige and set this example by ordering Muhammed to marry Zainab. I don’t understand what you don’t understand from the verse it is very clear. It is God that ordered this marriage to set the example for the reasons mentioned in the verse itself.

if muhammed really wanted Zainab he wouldnt have ordered Zayd rto marry her in the first place. he could have proposed to her and she would have accepted . Why wait and advice her to marry another man ?!
Can we have a translation of the verse you mentioned? I got the translation from etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=HolKora.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=33&division=div1

BTW Mohammad could not have married Zainab inthe first place because he married Khadijah, his boss. It is hard to imagine Mohammad would double cross her considering that she was the mistress of all that Mohammad had. Anyway Mohammad married many wives only after Khadijah died. Is there a possiblity that Mohammad could have wanted Zainab earlier on but could not because of Khadijah’s presence?
 
Can you give reference to the hadeeth you quoted?

So you don’t believe that Mohammad had a desire for Zainab? That he married Zainab because Allah commanded him to?
I don’t need a hadeeth , the verse is telling it. itself and says the reason for marriage .

‘‘We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons,’’

the verse is clearly stating to the situation that was in pre islamic time and the ruling that would set from now on . No adoption with erosion of lieneage and adoption doesn create lineage . the wife of any adopted son if she gets a devorce from this ‘’ son ‘’ is actually getting a devorce froma separate man that is not a son.

yes i believe he married her because Allah arranged this marriage to be that way . and as i told you and is very obvious , he could have married her in teh first place before Zayd if he wanted to .

if he really wanted Zaynab for her, what would have stopped him from marrying her before he gets in the dillemma of Zayd his adopted son in teh first place?
 
Can we have a translation of the verse you mentioned? I got the translation from etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=HolKora.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=33&division=div1

BTW Mohammad could not have married Zainab inthe first place because he married Khadijah, his boss. It is hard to imagine Mohammad would double cross her considering that she was the mistress of all that Mohammad had. Anyway Mohammad married many wives only after Khadijah died. Is there a possiblity that Mohammad could have wanted Zainab earlier on but could not because of Khadijah’s presence?
Khadijah died long vefore this happened . he could have amrried zaynab afterwards and still before the time he married her to zayd… and khadijah knew he is teh prophet of God if he wanted to marry and God authorized him to do so she wouldnt have had an issue. the verse i mentioned is teh verse you quoted.
 
he didn’t want somebody elses wife. Zaynab was getting a divorce any way . and it was already revealed by God that Muhammed was ordered to marry her . he wasnt in her company and there was no desire .
This verse plainly says 'if the prophet desired to marry her … ’

**“33.50”: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her – specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. **
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
I am still curious about this
Zainab was cousin of the Prophet (p). He arranged her marriage with Zaid. It’s unbelievable that Prophet never saw his own cousin since childhood since command on hijab came much later.

Muslims are allowed but not even encouraged to be naked even in bathroom. It’s simply impossible that a Muslim woman can be naked in a place where she can be seen by other men.

If Prophet had lust ( as some alleged ) for her , he could marry her before her marriage & divorce.

The meaning of unveiled is naked ? It could be she was just without head covering as it was not a must at that time. Anyway , if u love someone , why u will arrange her marriage ?
 
I don’t need a hadeeth , the verse is telling it. itself and says the reason for marriage .

‘‘We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons,’’

the verse is clearly stating to the situation that was in pre islamic time and the ruling that would set from now on . No adoption with erosion of lieneage and adoption doesn create lineage . the wife of any adopted son if she gets a devorce from this ‘’ son ‘’ is actually getting a devorce froma separate man that is not a son.
No hadeeth? Anyway thanks, I will take note of this. The reason I bring this subject here is so that I can hear more information, background and history about Mohammad from knowledgeable Muslims. As a non-Muslim I see verses around this affair seems self-serving to Mohammad’s own interest especially when you cannot show that he did not have the desire.
yes i believe he married her because Allah arranged this marriage to be that way . and as i told you and is very obvious , he could have married her in teh first place before Zayd if he wanted to .

if he really wanted Zaynab for her, what would have stopped him from marrying her before he gets in the dillemma of Zayd his adopted son in teh first place?
Granted but it still does not show that Mohammad did not have the desire for her in the light of verse 33:50.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Zainab was cousin of the Prophet (p). He arranged her marriage with Zaid. It’s unbelievable that Prophet never saw his own cousin since childhood since command on hijab came much later.

Muslims are allowed but not even encouraged to be naked even in bathroom. It’s simply impossible that a Muslim woman can be naked in a place where she can be seen by other men.

If Prophet had lust ( as some alleged ) for her , he could marry her before her marriage & divorce.
Thanks for the confirmation. Was cousins allowed to get married in the tribe before the revelation of verse 33:50 ?

My earlier question was : why was Mohammad in Zainab’s house and chanced upon her alone perhaps improperly dressed?
 
Khadijah died long vefore this happened . he could have amrried zaynab afterwards and still before the time he married her to zayd… and khadijah knew he is teh prophet of God if he wanted to marry and God authorized him to do so she wouldnt have had an issue. the verse i mentioned is teh verse you quoted.
But the fact remains that Mohammad did not have other wives while Khadijah was still alive. By activity I am quite involved in the minsitry of marriage and have seen how marriages work and broken, fidelities and adulteries. Mohammad who was poor and an orphan married Khadijah at such a young age that she could be his mother. Beside that she was her boss and employer. She was an influential and wealthy woman. Today one can only guess what kind of a marriage that may be.

By the time Khadijah died Mohammad was quite old already. The youth he had spent or rather deprived with an old Khadijah was quite consistent with what he did when he acquired many wives and concubines after she died. He made up for the lost time, so to speak. Now that he was free and powerful, he did what he could not do before.

This spurs my interest in his marriage to Zainab. So far the argument has not established that Mohammad did not desire Zainab. Even looking at the Quranic verses of 33 one find that they are self-serving to facilitate what he wanted to do, albeit Allah’s command aside.

I am no expert in Islam but when was these verses revealed, before or after Khadijah died?

**“33.37”: And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah’s command shall be performed.

“33.50”: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her – specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. **
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
… Mohammad who was poor and an orphan married Khadijah … she was her boss and employer.
Do u think , Prophet did not take other wife because Khadeja could divorce him & he will be poorer ?

Remember , idol worshipper offered him money , women ,power everything in exchange of stop preaching. Answer of Prophet was :

“O uncle, if they were to put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to stop me from preaching Islam, I would never stop. I will keep preaching until Allah makes Islam prevail or I die.”

cyberistan.org/islamic/muhammad.html
 
I am still curious about this and hope to get more insight into it.

My first curiousity – how is that Mohammad happened to be in Zainab chamber and saw her naked? I mean don’t you knock first or at least, “knock, knock, anybody there?”.

**“The Messenger of God went out one day seeking him. On Zaid’s door was a curtain, which the wind moved to show her unveiled in her chamber. The heart of the Prophet was stricken by admiration for her” (Annals of al-Tabari, 2:453).
"The Messenger of God saw her after he married her off, and he was deeply moved by her. Then he said, “Praise be to Him, who changes the hearts!” (al-Tabari -commentary, 22:12; al-Kashshaf, 2:359)***
There is no authenticity to this story. It’s just a story, and not a very likely one either, just a whimsy that nobody really takes seriously. I’ve never heard it uttered by a single scholar who described the marriage of Muhammad to Zaynab–and I’m sure they’ve read at-Tabari. The story is very inconsistent with the known, authentic story.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Do u think , Prophet did not take other wife because Khadeja could divorce him & he will be poorer ?
I wouldn’t know either but there was marked different in Mohammad’s libido after Khadijah’s death if the number of wives and women that he had was any pointer. These women were invariably young unlike Khadijah. Curious observers would be interested to know why the changes in Mohammad, from a one-woman man to a polygamist.
Remember , idol worshipper offered him money , women ,power everything in exchange of stop preaching. Answer of Prophet was :

“O uncle, if they were to put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to stop me from preaching Islam, I would never stop. I will keep preaching until Allah makes Islam prevail or I die.”

cyberistan.org/islamic/muhammad.html
I have no doubt about that but this got nothing to do with the subject, does it?

What about the Quranic verses that I mentioned? Before or after Khadijah’s death?
 
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