Mohammed and Aisha

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didididi said:
I’m a young (well it’s all relative 😉 - 19) Catholic.

And I don’t understand what you wrote in latin but i think i get the gist.

I was just trying to be as open as possible. To me it’s such a disgusting thing, yet I haven’t heard it all that much in discussion between Christians and Muslims - only here and there…so that made me think that maybe some of ‘our’ prophets did similar things, hence why we don’t push the point that much.

By the way, how well documented is this marraige and it’s consumation? Would I get my head blown off (figuratively :|) for saying to a muslim that “Muhammed had sex with a 8 year old”? What do the sources they trust say?

I’m sorry for all my questions, i’m just curious.
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hola

i just read the authoritative biography of mohamed called “the sealed nectar” which says she was nine when they consummated their marriage… seeing as muslims said to me that this is the official biography of mohamed i could not imagine they would object to you saying she was nine

Dominus Vobiscum
 
Jedda said:
When I was in history class I remember reading that at the first “menstruation” families would start looking for a suitor.
I remember reading this in a history about Rome , it was about the time in the catholic church… the book “Venus” talks about this. Is their any history majors that can give their advice on the marriage age? (with documentation of course).
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Two points.
a) there’s no evidence that Aisha was menstruating
b) people looking to ‘marry off’ their daughters at the time they begin menstruating is not the same as actually consummating the marriage at that age (or earlier)
 
Jedda said:
Well “I” don’t feel its irrelevant, it tells of the mindset of the people of that time.
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You *feel *its relevant, and you’re wrong.

If someone, for instance, kills someone, they don’t use as their defence “Well, other people have killed people too!”

In general the facts of the case are presented concerning that case only.

We weigh up the case of Muhammed based on the merits of the case.
Jedda said:
AND that is not irrelevant. You really cannot judge one man if the rest of society thought it was normal. Deeper digging must be done in order to “judge” his intentions.
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Okay, you want to look into the ‘mind-set’ of the society by using Muhammed as an example, and then say you can’t judge that society by his actions? He’s either an example of the society, or he isn’t. Please make up your mind.
 
Jack Hawkins:
To this day the age of lawful sexual intercourse in Iran is 9.
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Actually it’s 15 for males and 13 for females, that’s just an urban myth.
 
didididi said:
Thank you, Montalban.

There is a 10 year old girl in the soccer team I coach and I am just …disgusted to think Mohammed could do such a thing to a girl even younger.

I’m really lost for words.
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Yes, I know how you feel. I used to teach music to children from age 3-14. The thought of any of those children being violated in such a way also disgusts me. The sad thing is that there are still areas in Muslim nations where little girls are being married off to old men (old men meaning between 20-80) and they think it’s ok because I guess they believe Mohammed thought it was ok.

Now, I don’t know if they still actually consummate the marriage that young, but it still astonishes and depresses me. I read an article about it last year and saw pictures of these “wives” and husbands. One was a little nine-year-old who was just betrothed to a man who looked like he was about 60. She appeared so innocent and naive, not knowing what was to happen to her. She was apparently playing with the children of her husband’s other wives who were the same age as her so she looked like she was having fun. Another girl, about 13, was married to a man I think was 37 or 38. She had a look of hate towards him. I don’t blame her. These girls have no say in their lives and I can’t believe a religion or culture would still condone this.
 
Jedda said:
When I was in history class I remember reading that at the first “menstruation” families would start looking for a suitor.
I remember reading this in a history about Rome , it was about the time in the catholic church… the book “Venus” talks about this. Is their any history majors that can give their advice on the marriage age? (with documentation of course).
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I have also read about this in books. (I’m not a history major, but a history freak with some centuries). I do know that young women would be married off as young as 12 once their menstrual cycle kicked in, but many families would wait until about 14 or later to marry their daughters off. But all that aside and to get back on track with the thread subject…

I don’t know much about the history and people of Muhammed’s time, so I can’t say if this was normally practiced. Whether or not this was practiced by the entire society, though, still does not negate the fact that a man or a woman who’d want to be sexually intimate with a 9 year old child is perverse and disgusting during any period in history. Someone who would want that is not a man of God.

Sorry, I’m a little too passionate about this. I know too many people who have been victims of child sexual abuse.
 
Kadaveri said:
Actually it’s 15 for males and 13 for females, that’s just an urban myth.
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In Iran? Please quote your source, rather than making that throw away statement (and it wouldn’t count as an urban myth anyway - what a weird comment!)
this article seems to give a full answer to the question, age of consent in Iran, which disagrees with your unsubstantiated statement
 
Well ok if you want to be picky about it, the minimum legal age of marriage in Iran is 13 for females and 15 for males. But saying that this doesn’t account for sex outside of marriage is a moot point since sex outside marriage is illegal in Iran anyway.
 
Kadaveri said:
Well ok if you want to be picky about it, the minimum legal age of marriage in Iran is 13 for females and 15 for males. But saying that this doesn’t account for sex outside of marriage is a moot point since sex outside marriage is illegal in Iran anyway.
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Hi Kadaveri,
What is the legal age for ‘Thighing’ in Islam?
 
You know full well that such practice isn’t part of Islam Jonfan, don’t bring it up again oh so innocently.
 
Kadaveri said:
You know full well that such practice isn’t part of Islam Jonfan, don’t bring it up again oh so innocently.
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It has become wide spread these days, and especially during weddings, the habit of mufa’khathat of the children (mufa’khathat literally translated means “placing between the thighs” which means placing the male member between the thighs of a child). What is the opinion of scholars knowing full well that the prophet, the peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, also practiced the “thighing” of Aisha - the mother of believers - may Allah be please with her.

answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

If Mohammed is the perfect example of Islam than how could thighing not be a part of Islam?
 
Kadaveri said:
Actually it’s 15 for males and 13 for females, that’s just an urban myth.
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The late (great?) Ayatollah Khommeni married when he was 20 and she was 10

Iran: 15 for males, 13 for females. (girls under 13 and boys under 15 may get married with their guardian consent and court ruling that its in their interest)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age

Here’s another Moslem nation…
Yemen: 9 (“In 1999, the minimum marriage age of fifteen for women, rarely enforced, was abolished; the onset of puberty, interpreted by conservatives to be at the age of nine, was set as a requirement for consummation of marriage.”)
(Ibid.)
 
Kadaveri said:
Well ok if you want to be picky about it, the minimum legal age of marriage in Iran is 13 for females and 15 for males. But saying that this doesn’t account for sex outside of marriage is a moot point since sex outside marriage is illegal in Iran anyway.
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Now you’re playing around with the idea that Iran differs between an ‘age of consent’ and an ‘age of marriage’ (I understood adultery was heavily punishable)

That’s the second time this thread you’ve been caught out playing around with definitions.
 
You know what really amazes me about all this? In all the discussions we’ve had on Aisha (how many does this thread make?) and I’ve not seen one Muslim willing to say that having sexual relations with a little girl is always and completely wrong. I wonder how anyone one man can be seen as so holy and righteous that he simply can’t do anything wrong, ever. Only God can be so perfect.
 
Thank you to everyone who has replied to this thread. 🙂

To any muslims reading this, I understand this topic is probably very confronting and confusing for you. I understand the message of Islam is very appealing and seemingly a lot more simple than Christianity,and you are probably convinced that it is truth, and therefore think that Mohammed’s act is justified. I’m asking you please to use this as a way of opening yourself to the possibility that maybe Mohammed, even though he did preach some truth, was not a prophet. Ask yourself honestly if a faultless and sinless man can have sex with a young girl. Above all, please pray for truth.

I’m sorry if me saying this upsets anyone.

God bless everyone.
 
didididi said:
Thank you to everyone who has replied to this thread. 🙂

To any muslims reading this, I understand this topic is probably very confronting and confusing for you. I understand the message of Islam is very appealing and seemingly a lot more simple than Christianity,and you are probably convinced that it is truth, and therefore think that Mohammed’s act is justified. I’m asking you please to use this as a way of opening yourself to the possibility that maybe Mohammed, even though he did preach some truth, was not a prophet. Ask yourself honestly if a faultless and sinless man can have sex with a young girl. Above all, please pray for truth.

I’m sorry if me saying this upsets anyone.

God bless everyone.
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I’ve asked Moslems to show me how a girl from the ONSET of puberty is capable of having children/sex. Is she suddenly also mentally and emotionally mature - for Moslems seem to believe that once she begins a physical process, she’s ready - so there should be a mental progress just as instantaneous as the physical process is (according to them).
 
montalban,

I think that there are a lot of muslims who rather than truly believing that, have to believe that. If it is not true that a girl is ready at that age then Mohammed’s actions and therefore prophethood are questioned.

btw, I’m in sydney too.🙂
 
More of a marconifc.com/ guy myself …

Although a Brother at school went for Parra, so when I catch the sports news I hope to see them win;)
 
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