Mohammed and false Apparitions

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PumpkinSeed said:
Jesus says we know a false prophet by their fruits.

Having seen more than enough ‘bad’ fruits from Mohammad, I have came to the conclusion that he is as false as a prophet can get.
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What do you mean by a ‘fruit’ of a prophet?
 
As for what Muhammad’s actual experience was – I suppose you would have to ask God himself, if you wanted to know.

But why would you be keen to know, unless you were considering converting to Islam or from Islam to another religion?
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Yes I know. Even his wife (aisha) in the hadiths mentions some of his ‘side effects’ he got with these apparitions he had with the ‘angel’. It is obvious there was something neurologically and mentally wrong with him. God did not send Gabrielle to choke somebody or beat them up. I do not understand how anybody in their RIGHT mind would think that he had a visit from an angel. How could they possibly defend it?

An angel going around beating up people and choking them until they do what they’re told? What? Do they really think God runs a mob or something? geez!
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I can understand how they can defend it because it is the vehicle for their superiority above all other religions and people…primarilly Arabs. It is how they justify their eternal hatred of Jews and more specifically Israel. It is also how they justify their brutal treatment of their own women…even family members who step over the line they draw. All this I can understand even though I reject and resent it. What I cannot understand are those who do not see the danger to their own culture and religion and criticize those who do see the danger and injustice and speak out about it. 🤷
 
As for the koran…what it says about believers etc. I can only say this. One of the most beautifully specific constitutions about the “Rights of Citizens” and how fairly they were to be treated was the Constitution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic. So much for words.
 
pismopal said:
It is how they justify their eternal hatred of Jews and more specifically Israel.
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A tangent, I know, but I must point out that Jews and Israelis are two different categories. There are many Jews who are not Israelis and many Israelis who are not Jews.

To equate the two actually leads to the mentality according to which Islamists can claim to hold Jews outside the Levant to be “responsible” for the military actions by the state of Israel (as I recall, violent attacks on European Jews increased to a noticeable extent during the 2008 Gaza war).

Back to our regularly scheduled programming…
 
Amoon said:
The teaching of Islam is a proof that Prophet Mohammed was visited by Angel Gabriel and not a demon as some of you claim!

Islam is to submit yourself to the One true God. [same with Christianity**** Islam is to pray, fast, pay money for poor, never say lies**,** [except to deceive us infidels: the end justifies the means.] ** never kill or harm any innocent. **** ?]

Saint Paul`s letter to the Galatians needs to be quoted:
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel - not that there is another gospel… But even if we,** or an angel from heaven**
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Bezant said:
What do you mean by a ‘fruit’ of a prophet?
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matthew 7:15-20

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
 
Bezant said:
As for what Muhammad’s actual experience was – I suppose you would have to ask God himself, if you wanted to know.

But why would you be keen to know, unless you were considering converting to Islam or from Islam to another religion?
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Actually,I almost did convert once. But I’m only discussing this topic because it’s interesting to me, and of a lot of interest to anyone considering converting to/from Islam who may want to read or participate in this thread. Your own personal opinion from a Christian perspective of what may have been going on there would be most appreciated- but in any case, you’re free to read or participate in the discussion in other ways/aspects.
 
Ishmael, Abraham and Hagar’s son, was circumcisied at age 13 when God formed the covenent with his father. Ishmael was officially a Jew. As promised by the God of Abraham, Ishmael became the father of a nation, the Arabs. When did Ishmael stop the practice of circumscion?
 
aicirt said:
Ishmael, Abraham and Hagar’s son, was circumcisied at age 13 when God formed the covenent with his father. Ishmael was officially a Jew. As promised by the God of Abraham, Ishmael became the father of a nation, the Arabs. When did Ishmael stop the practice of circumscion?
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I don’t know why people just assume this about Ishmael and Arabs. I’m sure some Arabs are descended from Ishmael, but they as a whole, are a large and diverse group who I can’t believe began to exist only after Abraham.
 
Khalid said:
I take it he’s talking of the fraud at Medjugorje. One of the “revelations” there was directly in support of Valtorta’s “Poem of the Man-God” (the name itself is heresy), according to Wikipedia, to the effect of, “For the truth of me and my Son, read this trash”.
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Actually, Khalid, I am one of these :curtsey:, so that first sentence in your post should read “she’s” :p.

As to the rest of your post, I’m avoiding naming names because I don’t want to attract some zealot here who may end up derailing the thread on long debates about the authenticity of some alleged Catholic apparitions, rather than simply discuss them in connection to Mohammed’s claimed apparitions of the Archangel St. Gabriel.
 
Khalid said:
I take it he’s talking of the fraud at Medjugorje. One of the “revelations” there was directly in support of Valtorta’s “Poem of the Man-God” (the name itself is heresy), according to Wikipedia, to the effect of, “For the truth of me and my Son, read this trash”.
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Actually, Khalid, I am one of these :curtsey:, so that first sentence in your post should read “she’s” :p.

As to the rest of your post, I’m avoiding naming names because I don’t want to attract some apparition zealot here who may end up derailing the thread on long debates about the authenticity of some alleged Catholic apparitions, rather than Mohammed’s claimed apparitions of the Archangel St. Gabriel.
 
Khalid said:
I take it he’s talking of the fraud at Medjugorje. One of the “revelations” there was directly in support of Valtorta’s “Poem of the Man-God” (the name itself is heresy), according to Wikipedia, to the effect of, “For the truth of me and my Son, read this trash”.
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Actually, Khalid, I am one of these :curtsey:, so that first sentence in your post should read “she’s” :p.

As to the rest of your post, I’m avoiding naming names because I don’t want to attract some apparition zealot here who may end up derailing the thread on long debates about the authenticity of some alleged Catholic apparitions, rather than simply discuss them in connection to Mohammed’s claimed apparitions of the Archangel St. Gabriel.
 
Marybeloved said:
I don’t know why people just assume this about Ishmael and Arabs. I’m sure some Arabs are descended from Ishmael, but they as a whole, are a large and diverse group who I can’t believe began to exist only after Abraham.
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True but God did say that Ishmael would found a great nation. What would that nation be?

I’m interested in the idea that Ishmael was cicumcised. He was, therefore, a Jew. Who claim to be his descendants?
 
Marybeloved said:
Hello Trebor,

I wrote something of it on this converts group page here at CAF. Scroll down on this page-my story is closer to the middle/bottom- forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=1178&pp=10&page=2

Not much, but hey, you asked 😛

Peace.
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The first post with your name in it on that page, by creationlover, reads:
Marybeloved,
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Thank you for sharing your story! It was very uplifting!
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And further down you wrote:
Sorry, I thought this messages were about conversion stories!! I talked to much, lol! Sorry for the long message.
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JamesF- I was baptized 9 years ago, I was confirmed 6 years ago- Don’t worry, I know my faith! Perhaps I didn’t indicate that? I received doctrine and formation classes from an opus dei centre. I read the catechism and many many books, including many of JP II’s encyclicals- I used to be a hungry hungry reader when I first officially became Catholic.Sorry for the confusion. It seems I told a long story in the wrong place, hehe! I’m still learning how to navigate CAF.
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It seems from the above that you had penned a longer post about your conversion previously, but I didn’t find it on the first page of the thread…
 
Trebor135 said:
A tangent, I know, but I must point out that Jews and Israelis are two different categories. There are many Jews who are not Israelis and many Israelis who are not Jews.

To equate the two actually leads to the mentality according to which Islamists can claim to hold Jews outside the Levant to be “responsible” for the military actions by the state of Israel (as I recall, violent attacks on European Jews increased to a noticeable extent during the 2008 Gaza war).

Back to our regularly scheduled programming…
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Flash!!

Danny Pearl and Leon Klinghoffer were not Israelis…just American Jews and the list is so long that I would rather just use the 2 for my point. This is why I used the words “Israelis and Jews”. Islamists can always find an excuse for their violence at least an excuse that makes perfect sense to them and other Jew haters.
 
Trebor135 said:
The first post with your name in it on that page, by creationlover, reads:

And further down you wrote:

It seems from the above that you had penned a longer post about your conversion previously, but I didn’t find it on the first page of the thread…
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You didn’t scroll below enough ;). It’s almost immediately below the second post you’ve quoted here- only one post in between that and the one where I tell my story.
 
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