Mohammed and false Apparitions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marybeloved
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
pismopal said:
Flash!!

Danny Pearl and Leon Klinghoffer were not Israelis…just American Jews and the list is so long that I would rather just use the 2 for my point. This is why I used the words “Israelis and Jews”. Islamists can always find an excuse for their violence at least an excuse that makes perfect sense to them and other Jew haters.
Click to expand...
Yes. But what I am saying is this: it seems to me that you are committing the same grave error as the Islamists–lumping all “Jews” into one box.

PS: Islamism is a lousy ideology bringing gloom and doom to all and sundry which all decent folk should resist tooth and nail.
 
Marybeloved said:
You didn’t scroll below enough ;). It’s almost immediately below the second post you’ve quoted here- only one post in between that and the one where I tell my story.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the heads-up. 🙂 I read your story and it touched me. You saw no flashing lights and had no angelic visitations. But the profound simplicity of Christ as special beyond comprehension stuck out for you just as (I would imagine) it has for many others.

I second the suggestion that you write a book.

Catholics have to get involved in apologetics outreach to Muslims.
 
Trebor135 said:
Christians have no disagreements with this passage. We do not believe in a God that marries and has children.
Click to expand...
I’ve been away, but the only group that applies to are Mormons, who believe that God had carnal relations with woman to beget Jesus. Muhammad, in writing the Koran, I believe had contact with Collyridians (who did worship Mary), even if the timing was a bit off, because I’m not sure how he could have come up with the God/Jesus/Mary trinity otherwise.

Especially when he substitutes “Koran” for “Jesus” as “the uncreated Word of God”, and reduces Jesus to a “word [command] from God”. How about those attributes of Allah, the 99 attributes? They are not part of Allah, but they are co-eternal with him. Sounds like a Centenerity to me.
 
Bezant said:
What do you mean by a ‘fruit’ of a prophet?
Click to expand...
Both his personal behavior and purpose and the behavior and purpose he inspires in others. With Muhammad and his religion - he did these personally as well as inspiring them - that was murder, pedophilia, war crimes, polygamy, and the pillaging of the surrounding advanced civilizations such as Sassanid Persia and Byzantium. And that’s only in the first century.
 
Marybeloved said:
Actually, Khalid, I am one of these :curtsey:, so that first sentence in your post should read “she’s” :p.

As to the rest of your post, I’m avoiding naming names because I don’t want to attract some zealot here who may end up derailing the thread on long debates about the authenticity of some alleged Catholic apparitions, rather than simply discuss them in connection to Mohammed’s claimed apparitions of the Archangel St. Gabriel.
Click to expand...
I shall not forget, but I always use the “inclusive he” as English has no non-gendered second person singular pronoun (until I am corrected, on the internet; in real life, it is equally hard to get it wrong). “They” does not count. It is plural. Always.
 
aicirt said:
I’m interested in the idea that Ishmael was cicumcised. ** He was, therefore, a Jew.** Who claim to be his descendants?
Click to expand...
If the name “Jew” (or Jewish people) is derived their name from “Judah” - then how could Ishmael be Jewish? That would make Ishmael a descendant of Judah, the grandson of his half-brother. :rolleyes:

term for people - the person it’s derived from
Semitic - Shem, son of Noah
Hebrew - the name of “Hebrew” isn’t so easily attribute to one person (read Hebrews - wiki)
Israelite, Israeli - Israel, the name given to Jacob, the son of Isaac and Rebecca
Jew/Jewish -* Judah*, 4th son of Jacob and Leah
 
pismopal said:
I can understand how they can defend it because it is the vehicle for their superiority above all other religions and people…primarilly Arabs. It is how they justify their eternal hatred of Jews and more specifically Israel. It is also how they justify their brutal treatment of their own women…even family members who step over the line they draw. All this I can understand even though I reject and resent it. What I cannot understand are those who do not see the danger to their own culture and religion and criticize those who do see the danger and injustice and speak out about it. 🤷
Click to expand...
Okay, I have to defend Islam (O how I hate having to do this) here - women are enshrined as second-class citizens by virtue of the sahihayn ahadith (notably, “women are deficient in intellect and religion…because they can not pray on menses, and two women equals one male witness” - those restrictions revealed by Muhammad himself: O circular reasoning!), but honor killings are not a part of Islamic teaching, but of the backwards cultures that it often finds itself in today. Islam does not condemn them loudly enough, and, due to other Islamic teachings, the man who conducts one can get off very lightly.

However, more generally “honor killings” outside of the family (public stoning and/or lashings) are commanded by the Shariah.
 
Marybeloved said:
I don’t know why people just assume this about Ishmael and Arabs. I’m sure some Arabs are descended from Ishmael, but they as a whole, are a large and diverse group who I can’t believe began to exist only after Abraham.
Click to expand...
The Islamic tradition/legend is that Ishmael was the father of Arabs, and Isaac the father of Jews, and who knows who else the father of every other who else.
 
Trebor135 said:
Thanks for the heads-up. 🙂 I read your story and it touched me. You saw no flashing lights and had no angelic visitations. But the profound simplicity of Christ as special beyond comprehension stuck out for you just as (I would imagine) it has for many others.

I second the suggestion that you write a book.

Catholics have to get involved in apologetics outreach to Muslims.
Click to expand...
You have no idea how many times I’ve been asked to write a book both on this forum and off, and actually started working on it (I’m partially done and it’s around 300 pages long: I know, I talk a lot, and it’s gone off in to many tangents and almost become a retrospective or memoirs). Now I’m looking for a publisher. Regnery isn’t interested, or at least wasn’t when I talked to them. Maybe they need a manuscript?
 
I in no way said any of the Shariah hudud punishments were acceptable, merely that the private type of family-vengeance-honor-killing wasn’t part of Islam, but the cultures in which it has found itself.

The Shariah is legalistic beyond imagination, and very harsh. My studies to become a faqih eventually led me out of Islam, with the first acknowledgment that Islam could lead me nowhere but Hell: “There is no way I can follow all of these laws, and, even if I can, Allah’s will can change, so why shall he preserve even a righteous, instead of a sinner?”; that lead me to giving 10% zakat and doing 60-80 rakat a day (the normal amount is 17 [18 for Hanafis]) for a while, before I gave up on it, or the Holy Spirit caused me to give up on it, and see the Light of Truth and his own light as Advocate and Comforter.
 
John_Paul_Jones said:
If the name “Jew” (or Jewish people) is derived their name from “Judah” - then how could Ishmael be Jewish? That would make Ishmael a descendant of Judah, the grandson of his half-brother. :rolleyes:

term for people - the person it’s derived from
Semitic - Shem, son of Noah
Hebrew - the name of “Hebrew” isn’t so easily attribute to one person (read Hebrews - wiki)
Israelite, Israeli - Israel, the name given to Jacob, the son of Isaac and Rebecca
Jew/Jewish -* Judah*, 4th son of Jacob and Leah
Click to expand...
God enacted a covenant with Abraham the outward sign being circumcision. Ishamael, Abraham’s son by Hagar, was circumcised along with all the other men in Abraham’s tribe. Ishamael was about 13 when this happened. At this point, the Jewish religion was begun with Abraham, former pagan, honoring just one God. So Ishamael carried that sign with him that he was one who honored one diety and was, therefore, a Jew.
Sarah, uncomfortable with Hagar and her son, gets Abraham to kick them out. Mother and son travel across the desert and are close to death because of lack of water. God provides them a spring and promises Hagar that her son will be the head of nations and will be a prince and have 12 sons.
Hagar supposedly is the daughter of a pharoh and returns to Egypt. Apparently, she was given to Abraham as a servant when he was in Egypt. Being a princess would make her son a prince. Nevertheless, he carries the mark of circumcision and is a Jew with his father being Abraham. When Sarah dies, Abraham calls Hagar back and takes her again as his second wife. Abraham always loved Ishamael. Some believe it was he who was put on the altar to be sacrificed. Did Ishamael, once he had children, continue to circumcise? Did he revert back to pagan ways? I find that difficult of believe considering that he and his Mom were saved by the God of his earthly father and, if he was the one to be sacrificed, saved again by the same God.
Yes, the name Jew comes from Judah but the name America comes long after this continent was discovered. The Jewish religion started with Abraham.
 
Saint Paul already warned us about this, it certainly wasn’t a Heavenly Angel that appeared to Mohammed…therefore rendering him false.
 
John_Paul_Jones said:
[BIBLEDRB]John 8:3-11[/BIBLEDRB]
Click to expand...
And what is the point? If you are equating the OT with the Koran…you must be aware that it has been a long time since the Jews stoned anyone for adultry…or executed an apostate or blew up a girl’s school wih students inside.
 
Amoon said:
I don’t know why you keep using the word “beat” which seems very harsh. Angel Gabriel embraced Prophet Mohammed strongly, for reasons that God knows better. Muslims believe that this happened because God wanted Prophet Mohammed to know that this is a true revelation and not an illusion, so that Prophet Mohammed knows that he is not daydreaming and that what is happening in front of him is true. We also believe that Angel Gabriel embraced Prophet Mohammed so that he knows that what is coming will be even more difficult, and that he will face so many obstacles and difficulties in his mission to spread Islam.

The teaching of Islam is a proof that Prophet Mohammed was visited by Angel Gabriel and not a demon as some of you claim!

Islam is to submit yourself to the One true God.

Al Ikhlas 112. Say: He is Allah the One and Only; (1) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (2) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (3) And there is none like unto Him. (4)

No Muslim can deny any of the Prophets of God, or any of the revelations that came before Quran.

The Women 4. Those who deny Allah and His Messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah and His Messengers, saying: “We believe in some but reject others”: and (those who) wish to take a course midway.― (150) They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. (151) To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of the messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (152)

Al Imran 3. Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

Islam is to pray for God alone and to seek forgiveness from Him alone without a mediator.

The Cow 2. When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them); I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me; let them also with a will listen to My call and believe in Me; that they may walk in the right way. (186)

Al Imran 3. And those who having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls earnestly bring Allah to mind; and ask for forgiveness for their sins,―and who can forgive sins except Allah?,―And are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done. (135)

Islam is to pray, fast, pay money for poor, never say lies, never kill or harm any innocent.

Al Furqan 25. Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred, except for just cause, not commit fornication― and any that does this (not only) meets punishment (68) (But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy― (69) Unless he repents, believes, and works righteous deeds, for Allah will change the evil of such persons into good and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (70) And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion― (71)

Hud 11. And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night: for those things that are good remove those that are evil: be that the word of remembrance to those who remember (their Lord): (114)

Al Hadid 57. For those who give in Charity, men and women, and loan to Allah a Beautiful Loan, it shall be increased manifold (to their credit) and they shall have (besides) a liberal reward. (18)

I don’t understand how anybody in their RIGHT mind would believe that such great teachings of Islam would be brought by man or demon!
Click to expand...
Pumpkin Seed, You said, "I do not understand how anybody in their RIGHT mind would think that he had a visit from an angel. How could they possibly defend it? "
You say you are a follower of Christ, but don’t you believe that Mary was visited by the angel Gabriel? So then, why couldn’t Mohammad be visited as well?
Just thinking…🤷:
 
Publisher said:
Jacob might disagree with you…he wrestled with one all night…and not only wrestled but it hit him(“touched” him for the literalists…must have been a hard “touch”) and knocked his hip out of joint.🤷

Muhammed’s encounter doesn’t sound too off base considering Jacob’s encounter.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of the very same thing.😃
 
@aschafer

Gabrielle would not choke and beat someone.

And if you really believe Mohammad is a true prophet then you are not a Christian.
Mohammad denies Jesus’s resurrection, he denies Jesus as the son of God, and denies Jesus as the savior.

We already know what such people are.

1 John 2: 18-23 (read this and you’ll know exactly what Mohammad is)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top