Mohammed the peace maker

[inJESUS]

I see Muhammad as a man with ups and downs, good and bad, the same way i see any other human, including Smith. No i don’t see him as a peace maker, surely not when Jesus says Blessed are the peacemakers ( as Jesus has a different meaning He Himself lived) and surely not when peace involves submission to his rule with humiliation.

 

[TomaszA]

Peace Algebra,

The raids were usually conducted to recoup the losses the muslims faced being forced into exile by the meccans.

Unfortunately it’s been some time since I read into this issue, so I can’t give as adequate a response as I’d like to. I honestly think the raids were to harm the Meccans and rob their rich caravans and I think this would be shown if someone did look into the history.

I do not believe Mohammed was a messenger of G_D.
As a political commander he shows remarkable restraint given the early treatment of the muslims in Mecca.

I know the Meccans tried to assassinate him but that was after THIRTEEN years of his preaching against everything they held sacred! I honestly think the pagans showed him more restraint than he did for them!

 

[algebra]

I honestly think the pagans showed him more restraint than he did for them!

When Mohammed eventually defeated Mecca. It was marked by a lack of bloodshed.

 

[R_not]

Mohammed taught moderation in behaviour.

I do not believe that Mohammed was “inspired” by G_D.

He was just the political and spiritual leader of his people. A gifted man in the ways of the world.
A rare man, because power corrupts completely; however Mohammed was remarkably resistant to the corrosiveness of the power he wielded.

I only post this because there are many posts that unfairly malign his character.

I was a muslim, currently married to a muslim. So my knowledge of his teaching - islam, is perhaps deeper than that of most people on this board.

considering that most muslims don’t even know their own texts - I always question that sort of a statement. They know what their clerics want them to know.

As far as maligning his character - I am afraid that the texts of islam do that. I read them. Not all at once - but some of them are pretty telling. I just finished one in ‘Ask about Islam 2’, post #275.

Most of what anyone gets about mohammed are from islam’s own texts and the problem with most muslims is that that don’t question their own ‘religion’, nor do they do too much reading of it. On these threads they mostly write the abrogated surahs and dismiss most anything else they don’t want to deal with. it is a tactic they use, but the problem is that it won’t go away. It is all there for anyone to read.

 

[Reuben_J]

…
I do not believe Mohammed was a messenger of G_D.

…
I agree with you regarding the wives, Mohammed was definitely possessed by a demon of lust.

I agree with you wholeheartedly here and I would rather let it rest at that.

 

[TomaszA]

When Mohammed eventually defeated Mecca. It was marked by a lack of bloodshed.

How many were killed up to that point?

 

[R_not]

When Mohammed eventually defeated Mecca. It was marked by a lack of bloodshed.

Not true. He raided Meccan caravans. mohammed was mostly a coward - he preferred his raids in that way he would surprise unarmed caravans that also had women and children along. And with the Meccans we see that mohammed got the idea of breaking his peace treaties.

Mecca

**'Only two years after the treaty of Hudaibiyah he felt strong enough to attack Mecca and was able to gather 10,000 men to accompany him in the expedition. (At Hudaibiyah he had only 1500 men). Not all those who accompanied him were Muslims. But he was an emerging tyrant and some of the tribes feared that refusing his demand would anger him and they too could become his subsequent victims. In other words they tried to stay out of his harm by appeasing him. Among them were the two big tribes of Sulaim and Tamim. To sweeten the deal Muhammad offered them a share of the booty. Carrot and stick are the preferred tools of narcissists.

But Muhammad had signed a treaty with the Meccans. How could he get around it? Not that the treaty itself was any deterrent, what Muhammad needed was an excuse to justify his treachery. The solution to all Muhammad’s problems was Allah and in this case also it was Allah who gave him deliverance.’

read the rest from the website above…**

Basically mohammed was all about terrorism, thuggary, butchery. He did finally realize at one point that he could subjugate people and so he started the class of dhimmi. Until then he raided caravans for loot and slaves, and had several battles for loot and slaves. He would kill the men and boys ‘with hair’ and the rest were passed around as booty too.

And even if a people chose to be subjugated that did not always stop muslims from killing, or doing other atrocities to them and it continues to this day.

 

[R_not]

Peace Algebra,

Unfortunately it’s been some time since I read into this issue, so I can’t give as adequate a response as I’d like to. I honestly think the raids were to harm the Meccans and rob their rich caravans and I think this would be shown if someone did look into the history.

I know the Meccans tried to assassinate him but that was after THIRTEEN years of his preaching against everything they held sacred! I honestly think the pagans showed him more restraint than he did for them!

Yes, you are correct. The Meccans did get tired of it but even then they did nothing to mohammed, but went to his uncle to ask him to intercede and to ask mohammed to stop his nastiness.

Ishaq:119 “'Abu Tabib, your nephew Muhammad has cursed our gods [at this point he had cursed all of them, including Allah], insulted our religion [more correctly, insulted them by trying to steal their religion], mocked our way of life and accused our forefathers of error. Either you stop him or let us get to him. For you, like us, are in opposition to him. He gave them a conciliatory reply. They returned a second time and said, ‘We have asked you to put a stop to your nephew’s activities but you have not done so. By Allah, we cannot endure having our fathers reviled and our customs mocked.’ Muhammad thought that his uncle had the idea of abandoning and betraying him, and that he was going to lose his support. The Apostle broke into tears.”

Tabari VI:93 “The Quraysh went to Abu Talib and said, ‘Your nephew [Muhammad] has reviled our gods, denounced our religion, derided our traditional values, and told us that our forefathers were misguided [and burning in hell]. Either curb his attacks on us or give us a free hand to deal with him, for you are as opposed to him as we are.’ They said, ‘We asked you to forbid your nephew from attacking us, but you did nothing. By Allah, we can no longer endure this vilification of our forefathers, this derision of our traditional values, and this abuse of our gods.’ This breach and enmity with his tribe weighed heavily on Talib. ‘Abu Talib, you are our elder and our chief, so give us justice against your nephew and order him to desist from reviling our gods, and we will leave him to his god.’”

 

[R_not]

I see Muhammad as a man with ups and downs, good and bad, the same way i see any other human, including Smith. No i don’t see him as a peace maker, surely not when Jesus says Blessed are the peacemakers ( as Jesus has a different meaning He Himself lived) and surely not when peace involves submission to his rule with humiliation.

Well, mohammed had more than just ‘ups and downs’. He had some serious mental problems.

He had temporal lobe epilepsy, along with being a pathological narcissist (see post #275 in ‘Ask about islam2’ and was also mysoginistic. There are probably other problems he had too - I just haven’t gotten that far in the book yet.

It can all be substantiated by islam’s own texts.

 

[Reuben_J]

Mohammad was a political commander as mentioned by Algebra. Islam was spread by a political commander that involved wars. One could win a war only through shrewdness, miltary savvy, political manipulation and if necessary cruelty.

If we look at Mohammad as a military commander, all those purportedly and so-called restraint and magnimanity were all calculated to win the war phyiscally and politically.

What is important to bear in mind is that this man was never a prophet of God but a man of war. As a warring person, no matter how restraint he was, the reality of war should involve the unimagineable despair and cruelty inflicted to his enemies and victims. Remember, Mohammad did not going about his business distributing candies to the children.

If he could win a war without lifting a sword why not? But ultimately, it was all about winning, killing or no killing.

What’s astonishing today is for the Muslims to sugarcoat Mohammad as a goody-goody to comform to his prophet image of which he was not. That is why all this so-called lack of bloodshed during Mohammad’s conquest just don’t make sense. Not to anyone who know what wars and conquests are all about.

 

[algebra]

Examples of the generosity of Mohammed.

Sometimes Allah blessed the food that the Prophet shared so that it multiplied to feed many. During one battle, there were 130 Companions with the Prophet. He bought one goat, slaughtered it and ordered its liver to be roasted. When it was ready, he distributed it among all the Companions and kept a share for those who were not present.

Whenever he received anything, he did not sit in peace until it was finished. Umm Salmah, the Prophet’s wife, reported that one day Allah’s Messenger came home looking disturbed. She asked him what the matter was. He replied that the seven dinars he had received the day before had remained on the bed until evening and had not been distributed. He did not rest until they were given away.

Abu Dharr reported that one evening he was walking with Allah’s Messenger when he said, “Abu Dharr, if the mountain of Uhud were turned into gold for me, I would not like three nights to pass and one dinar still be left with me, excepting what I would leave for paying my debts.” He would never rest until all the cash in the house was completely finished. Once the Prophet went home in a hurry after the prayer and then immediately came out again. The people were surprised, but he told them that he had remembered during the prayer that there was some gold in his house. He thought that he might forget and the gold might remain there all night. He went back home to ask that it might immediately be given in charity.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Why does it bother you that he should do this - deny the death of Jesus?

You know the truth - be content.

As for Mohammed, even if he verbally denied the death of Christ.

With his every generous action he affirmed G_Ds generosity to us, and therein the death of Christ.

When muslims continue to be a witness against the crucifixion of Jesus, why should I be content? I would have thought this lie deserves a rebuttal.

How about you; Do you have an opinion/belief/knowledge as to whether or not Jesus was crucified?

 

[R_not]

Mohammad was a political commander as mentioned by Algebra. Islam was spread by a political commander that involved wars. One could win a war only through shrewdness, miltary savvy, political manipulation and if necessary cruelty.

If we look at Mohammad as a military commander, all those purportedly and so-called restraint and magnimanity were all calculated to win the war phyiscally and politically.

What is important to bear in mind is that this man was never a prophet of God but a man of war. As a warring person, no matter how restraint he was, the reality of war should involve the unimagineable despair and cruelty inflicted to his enemies and victims. Remember, Mohammad did not going about his business distributing candies to the children.

If he could win a war without lifting a sword why not? But ultimately, it was all about winning, killing or no killing.

What’s astonishing today is for the Muslims to sugarcoat Mohammad as a goody-goody to comform to his prophet image of which he was not. That is why all this so-called lack of bloodshed during Mohammad’s conquest just don’t make sense. Not to anyone who know what wars and conquests are all about.

Yeah, but when mohammed combined a god/religion with his ‘war machine’ he made islam into something very unholy. And now this is how muslims to this day enter lands under the guise of islam being a religion. This is why they are getting away with so much.

We allowed the communists to infiltrate too as they did in the middle of the 20th century (this is why they are rampant in our colleges, media, and other news sources) and now we are letting muslims have their way in all aspects of our life. They are successfully suing businesses, changing our children’s history books, bringing back segregation under the guise of ‘modesty’ when it is instead because they think we are dirty, and other things that are smoothing the way for more sharia compliant laws and rules.

If whites brought back segregation - all heck would break loose, but the muslims are succeeding in doing it. Why is that?!?!

Anyway, people should read not only ‘The Art of War’, but also the koran and as many hadiths as they can stand.

‘war is deception’ per mohammed, and their stealth jihad is alive and well.

a couple of books,
‘A Never Ending War’,
‘Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs’ and
‘They Must Be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It’

The Third Jihad - 30 minute version

 

[R_not]

Examples of the generosity of Mohammed.

Sometimes Allah blessed the food that the Prophet shared so that it multiplied to feed many. During one battle, there were 130 Companions with the Prophet. He bought one goat, slaughtered it and ordered its liver to be roasted. When it was ready, he distributed it among all the Companions and kept a share for those who were not present.

Whenever he received anything, he did not sit in peace until it was finished. Umm Salmah, the Prophet’s wife, reported that one day Allah’s Messenger came home looking disturbed. She asked him what the matter was. He replied that the seven dinars he had received the day before had remained on the bed until evening and had not been distributed. He did not rest until they were given away.

Abu Dharr reported that one evening he was walking with Allah’s Messenger when he said, “Abu Dharr, if the mountain of Uhud were turned into gold for me, I would not like three nights to pass and one dinar still be left with me, excepting what I would leave for paying my debts.” He would never rest until all the cash in the house was completely finished. Once the Prophet went home in a hurry after the prayer and then immediately came out again. The people were surprised, but he told them that he had remembered during the prayer that there was some gold in his house. He thought that he might forget and the gold might remain there all night. He went back home to ask that it might immediately be given in charity.

Yeah, he made sure all the booty - people/slaves and goods - were also shared. Real nice guy (/sarc)

 

[FightingFat]

A good point, at no point did Mohammed teach or force anyone to agree with him.

Indeed at no point did Christians or Jews ever have to convert to islam by force.

That simply is not true. From the earliest days, if you did not convert you were treated as a second class citizen and had to pay taxes to the Umma.

 

[Sam_777]

I am a man, I converted to be able to marry my wife. Having said that, I spent a good deal of time learning islam.

Sorry for my confusion, but what do you mean by converted to marry your wife.

Because in Islam a Muslim women can not marry non Muslim man per (Quran 2:221), but a Muslim man can marry Jewish or Christian woman per (Quran 5:5).

So if your wife is still a Muslim, then she is in a sinful status now according to Islam, and Muslim clerics would give her the right to divorce (aka Khalaa) you.

 

[R_not]

That simply is not true. From the earliest days, if you did not convert you were treated as a second class citizen and had to pay taxes to the Umma.

I cannot believe that anyone would be that ignorant of their own history. Not only did that sort of thing go on in mohammed’s day since many converted out of fear, or to better their lives after being enslaved, but it still goes on to this day.

And example are the Hindu girls that muslim males kidnap, force to convert and then they marry them (basically rape them).

Oh, this junk about ‘no compulsion’ is hooey. It is just a way for too many muslims to feel self-righteous and to stay ignorant of what muslims do around this globe. It is a part of the deception.

 

[inJESUS]

Examples of the generosity of Mohammed.

Sometimes Allah blessed the food that the Prophet shared so that it multiplied to feed many.

 

[ralphinal]

I cannot believe that anyone would be that ignorant of their own history. Not only did that sort of thing go on in mohammed’s day since many converted out of fear, or to better their lives after being enslaved, but it still goes on to this day.

And example are the Hindu girls that muslim males kidnap, force to convert and then they marry them (basically rape them).

Oh, this junk about ‘no compulsion’ is hooey. It is just a way for too many muslims to feel self-righteous and to stay ignorant of what muslims do around this globe. It is a part of the deception.

I think that we do not use the same definition of compulsion that they use. The use of force, up to and including killing someone who leaves the faith, the use of taxes, humiliation, and removal of basic human rights are not considered compulsion in Islam.

What does the word compulsion mean to them?

 

[algebra]

So if your wife is still a Muslim, then she is in a sinful status now according to Islam, and Muslim clerics would give her the right to divorce (aka Khalaa) you.

Well I was told i had to be muslim to marry my wife, so i made shahada.

As I said, its a long story. we were separated for about 5 months.
we recently had a baby boy, its not a simple matter of divorcing me. If you need more specific answers on how we are dealing with it pm me.