Mohammed

[Augustine3]

For Muslims, Jesus is so honored and loved, but to say that he is god, sorry, God is only One, He has no son, He is not like us who need to eat and sleep, He is the creator of heavens and earth, and He sent Prophet Jesus to ask people to worship God alone.

I think this is where Muslims misunderstand Christians. Muslims believe God is one person. Christians believe God is one being. We do not believe in three gods. Muslims that deny God has the power to assume a human nature while maintaining His divinity are not true Muslims.

And for those who are wondering why would God send another Prophet after Jesus and another revelation, it is obviously because there was a strong need for that, people started believing in things that Jesus did not teach, there was a need for Islam, the submission to God, to guide people to the One True God, as people started contributing partners with Him, the Almighty.

The Christians were already worshipping the one true God, they didn’t need another so called prophet to teach them otherwise. You believe the early Christians believed in doctrines that Christ did not teach, the problem is you have no proof besides the Quran. Unfortunately for you there is no other evidence you can put forward to support your claim. The Quran does not suffice because you cannot prove it is of divine origin it also contradicts history.

God bless,

 

[Augustine3]

To evangelize Muslims you have to convince them how could a demon come to Prophet Mohammed asking him to teach people that God is One. Arabs back then were worshipping statues and demons were very happy seeing them do so.

We can start with the “Satanic Verses”. Mohammed promoted polytheism then later claimed it was Satan that prompted him.

“Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other? These are the high flying cranes; verily their intercession is accepted with approval” Surah 53:19-20

Of course Muslims to their embarrassment omit the last part…

God bless,

 

[Amoon]

Who created Jesus?

 

[aschaefer]

Hello Amoon,
The following verses come from the Gospel of St. John:
1 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God.

2 He was with God in the beginning.

3 Through him all things came into being, not one thing came into being except through him.

4 What has come into being in him was life, life that was the light of men;

5 and light shines in darkness, and darkness could not overpower it.

Jesus always existed because he is God.

Peace

 

[rinnie]

To evangelize Muslims you have to convince them how could a demon come to Prophet Mohammed asking him to teach people that God is One. Arabs back then were worshipping statues and demons were very happy seeing them do so.

It is not that difficult to believe that Prophet Mohammed was visited by an angel, Angel Gabriel, because the teachings of Islam can no way be brought to us by demons.

Consider that demons might be the onse who visited those who came up with the idea that Jesus is the son of god, and that he said to people worship me as god, and that god allowed his son to die to clean your sins, and that he was raised in the third day. This shows that you are actually not worshipping one God, as father was alive and son was dead for three days, so one is alive and one is dead, how come they are one?

For Muslims, Jesus is so honored and loved, but to say that he is god, sorry, God is only One, He has no son, He is not like us who need to eat and sleep, He is the creator of heavens and earth, and He sent Prophet Jesus to ask people to worship God alone.

And for those who are wondering why would God send another Prophet after Jesus and another revelation, it is obviously because there was a strong need for that, people started believing in things that Jesus did not teach, there was a need for Islam, the submission to God, to guide people to the One True God, as people started contributing partners with Him, the Almighty.

Quran 5. They do blaspheme who say: “Allah is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah―Allah will forbid him the Garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. (72) They disbelieve who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (73) Why turn they not to Allah and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (74) Christ the son of Mary was no more than an Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth makes His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! (75) Say: Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,― He it is that heareth and knoweth all things." (76) Say: "O people of the Book! Exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by― who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way. (77) Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in Excesses. (78) Nor did they (usually) forbid one another the iniquities which they committed: evil indeed were the deeds which they did. (79) Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them, (with the result) that Allah’s wrath is on them and in torment will they abide. (80) If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers. (81) Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say: “We are Christians:” because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (82) And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. (83) “What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?” (84) And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with Gardens with rivers, flowing underneath their eternal Home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. (85) But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,― they shall be companions of Hell-Fire. (86).

Those are the words of Muhammad though.

If you read the word of God it states in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the Word WAS God. HE was God in the beginning, Through HIM all things came into being not one thing came into being except through Him!

The Word Became FLESH, he lived among us.

What is very confusing and I agree it is, We agree on One God. But we believe as the word of God tells us, that the Word became Flesh. God is not subjected to anything.

The O.T speaks of the WORD of GOD, hsi wisdom, present with God before the world was made, but it all things are created. It is sent to earth to reveal the hidden designs of God, it returns to God with its work done.

We believe as the word of God tells us, that There are 3 persons, in ONE GOD. When we pray to the Holy Spirit, which I think we agree on you do also, you see the Holy Spirit as God also do you not?

The Trinity is just 3 ways in which God choose to reveal himself. As the Word, the Son, (the word made flesh) and the Holy Spirit. We still have and always have prayed to and worshiped ONE GOD. The Son is ONE in BEING with the Father, the same as the Holy Spirit is.

 

[Trebor135]

To evangelize Muslims you have to convince them how could a demon come to Prophet Mohammed asking him to teach people that God is One. Arabs back then were worshipping statues and demons were very happy seeing them do so.

Demons can mix truth (there is one God) with falsehood (Jesus was a mere man). They can lead many more people astray in this manner than if they had inspired a religion which demands child sacrifice.

It is not that difficult to believe that Prophet Mohammed was visited by an angel, Angel Gabriel, because the teachings of Islam can no way be brought to us by demons.

Consider that demons might be the onse who visited those who came up with the idea that Jesus is the son of god, and that he said to people worship me as god, and that god allowed his son to die to clean your sins, and that he was raised in the third day. This shows that you are actually not worshipping one God, as father was alive and son was dead for three days, so one is alive and one is dead, how come they are one?

Christians worship one God, not three. The divine nature of Jesus never disappeared. Christ was able to die because he had taken on human nature and willingly accepted execution at the hands of the Romans.

For Muslims, Jesus is so honored and loved, but to say that he is god, sorry, God is only One, He has no son, He is not like us who need to eat and sleep, He is the creator of heavens and earth, and He sent Prophet Jesus to ask people to worship God alone.

Christians don’t believe that God needs to eat and sleep. These things only became necessary when he visited us here on earth. Besides, the Jewish people were strictly monotheist, so why would God send yet another prophet to encourage them to continue doing something they were already enthusiastic about? It would be as if the president of France sent a representative to the United States to teach people who love baseball and apple pie how to be better Americans.

And for those who are wondering why would God send another Prophet after Jesus and another revelation, it is obviously because there was a strong need for that, people started believing in things that Jesus did not teach, there was a need for Islam, the submission to God, to guide people to the One True God, as people started contributing partners with Him, the Almighty.

Christ made extraordinary claims that a prophet would not make. Muslims bury their heads in the sand to ignore these facts only because they believe in the Qur’an. Muslims have no evidence from the time of Jesus demonstrating that the religion he brought was ever corrupted.

 

[Trebor135]

We believe as the word of God tells us, that There are 3 persons, in ONE GOD.

Amen.

When we pray to the Holy Spirit, which I think we agree on you do also, you see the Holy Spirit as God also do you not?

If I am not mistaken, Muslims believe that the Holy Spirit (i.e., الروح القدس when written in the Arabic script, al-rouH al-qudus if transliterated into the Latin alphabet) is the Archangel Gabriel.

The Trinity is just 3 ways in which God choose to reveal himself. As the Word, the Son, (the word made flesh) and the Holy Spirit. We still have and always have prayed to and worshiped ONE GOD. The Son is ONE in BEING with the Father, the same as the Holy Spirit is.

I would avoid phrasing things as you did in the first sentence, since it implies modalism–the heresy according to which God is a unitarian being but changes how he appears to us depending on the situation. I agree with the rest of this paragraph, however.

 

[MartinJordan]

Muslims have no evidence from the time of Jesus demonstrating that the religion he brought was ever corrupted.

I think the more accurate clarification about having no evidence, is rather that Muslims say that the Bible has been corrupted. They do have respect for Jesus per say, they don’t insist that Jesus himself corrupted anything, but only some parts of the Bible that “seemingly hint that Jesus was God”; that those parts have been manipulated.

MJ

 

[7_Sorrows]

Salman Rushdi, The Satanic Verses.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses

The Satanic Verses is Salman Rushdie’s fourth novel, first published in 1988 and inspired in part by the life of Muhammad. As with his previous books, Rushdie used magical realism and relied on contemporary events and people to create his characters.

The title refers to the so-called “satanic verses”, a group of alleged Quranic verses that allow intercessory prayers to be made to three Pagan Meccan goddesses: Allāt, Uzza, and Manāt.[1] The part of the story that deals with the “satanic verses” was based on accounts from the 1st millennium (AD or AH) historians al-Waqidi and al-Tabari.[1]
In the United Kingdom, the book received positive reviews.

It was a 1988 Booker Prize Finalist (losing to Peter Carey’s Oscar and Lucinda) and won the 1988 Whitbread Award for novel of the year.[2]

The Satanic Verses sparked a major controversy when conservative Muslims accused it of blasphemy and mocking their faith. The outrage among some Muslims resulted in a fatwā calling for Rushdie’s death issued by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Supreme Leader of Iran, on 14 February 1989

yes, Salman Rushdie. couldn’t remember his name. he was in hiding for many, many years. can you imagine the Pope calling a fatwa on someone who wrote a book blaspheming christianity and mocking it!!! the Pope might make a statement of release a statement,but issuing a fatwa?? makes me so happy i am a Christian Catholic!!

 

[TobyLue]

I think the more accurate clarification about having no evidence, is rather that Muslims say that the Bible has been corrupted. They do have respect for Jesus per say, they don’t insist that Jesus himself corrupted anything, but only some parts of the Bible that “seemingly hint that Jesus was God”; that those parts have been manipulated.

Actually I read on a thread several years ago on this forum from a Muslim that stated that Islam rejects the bible because it contradicts the Qur’an. I asked how that could be since the Bible came first. We reject the Qur’an be IT contradicts the Bible. I never got a reply.

That would be like me writing a story about Romeo and Juliet which would be different that what Shakespeare wrote, then claim that Shakespeare is false because it contradicts my story about Romeo and Juliet.

 

[sedonaman]

Actually I read on a thread several years ago on this forum from a Muslim that stated that Islam rejects the bible because it contradicts the Qur’an. I asked how that could be since the Bible came first. We reject the Qur’an be IT contradicts the Bible. I never got a reply. …

The difference here is that while Islam rejects the Bible because it contradicts the Qur’an, it turns around and relies on the Bible for its own verification. The Bible makes no allowance for the Qur’an.

The most glaring example is the claim that the Bible predicted Mohammed. If you start by assuming the Bible is erroneous, how could your conclusions based on it be true?

 

[Augustine3]

Serious Muslims scholars do not believe the entire bible is corrupt, only certain parts of it. They use the Quran as the criterion to ascertain what part of the Bible is corrupt or pure. In other words the parts of the bible that agree with the Quran is authentic and the parts that don’t agree with the Quran is corrupt.

How convenient for them really…

God bless,

 

[Trebor135]

Serious Muslims scholars do not believe the entire bible is corrupt, only certain parts of it. They use the Quran as the criterion to ascertain what part of the Bible is corrupt or pure. In other words the parts of the bible that agree with the Quran is authentic and the parts that don’t agree with the Quran is corrupt.

How convenient for them really…

God bless,

Such Muslim intellectuals really do need our prayers, to facilitate their discarding of circular reasoning on religious matters. To bring about their conversion to Christ, this precondition must first be met.

 

[MartinJordan]

Intellectual Muslims also must be confident to ask questions about what Mohammed taught them, by examining ALL writings available about Christianity and in particular Church Fathers for instance.

It’s all there for them to do it. Many books are out there. Just read and not to be afraid…but Im sure they’ll stick with the Bible basing opinions.

MJ

 

[Augustine3]

It would be meaningless for Muslims to examine Christian writings of whatever kind. According to their belief the event of Jesus’ crucifixion was a direct deception from God. God made it look like it was Jesus crucified but it was actually someone else in Jesus’ place. Therefore all Christian writings would be meaningless because they are based on a misleading event.

God bless,

 

[MartinJordan]

It would be meaningless for Muslims to examine Christian writings of whatever kind. According to their belief the event of Jesus’ crucifixion was a direct deception from God. God made it look like it was Jesus crucified but it was actually someone else in Jesus’ place. Therefore all Christian writings would be meaningless because they are based on a misleading event.

God bless,

I agree with this…sadly.

MJ

 

[sedonaman]

… Therefore all Christian writings would be meaningless because they are based on a misleading event.

God bless,

That’s interesting because Mohammed claimed to be the last in a line of Old and New Testament prophets. If you take away those whom Islam calls the New Testament prophets, where does that leave Mohammed?

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

In the Old and New Testaments, when an apparition comes from heaven, the messenger always has the same comment and it is “Do Not Be afraid”.

Er, are you sure about that? Have you even checked? And what about the presence of those words indicates a true apparation?

If the vision of a good angel is written about in the Bible it’s pretty much a done deal that it’s a “true apparition.” So maybe the question should be rephrased: *Because it is a true apparition what does the presence of those words “Do not be afraid” mean? *

I’m not sure why Christians care about what Muhammed experienced, assuming that he did. I always thought that the Gospel was good enough for Christianity–why do Christians go about debating what “actually” happened when for Christians’ purposes, it wouldn’t matter if Muhammed made it up or saw God himself?

Christians do not live in a bubble where they learn about their faith and no one will ever confront them. One thing we know is muhammed didn’t see God Himself nor does muhammed claim to either, his vision, he claimed, was of an angel, Jibril. And the message the angel brought or the message itself (sans a vision of the angel) is not at all compatible with the Gospel, and goes against very heart of the Gospel the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. What is wrong with Christians dismantling something that is dismantling their Gospel?

It would be meaningless for Muslims to examine Christian writings of whatever kind. According to their belief the event of Jesus’ crucifixion was a direct deception from God. God made it look like it was Jesus crucified but it was actually someone else in Jesus’ place. Therefore all Christian writings would be meaningless because they are based on a misleading event.

God bless,

Epic fail on their part. God can neither deceive nor be deceived.

 

[Augustine3]

That’s interesting because Mohammed claimed to be the last in a line of Old and New Testament prophets. If you take away those whom Islam calls the New Testament prophets, where does that leave Mohammed?

Even if you take them away, Mohammed claims he himself is the restorer of the true prophets and their true teachings that we Christians so cleverly distorted.

This is what I don’t get about Muslims, on one hand they claim we were deceived by God at the crucifixion event of Jesus on the other hand we Christians distorted the truth by editing the bible. So we were deceived by God and we deliberately deceive others…

God bless,

 

[Augustine3]

Epic fail on their part. God can neither deceive nor be deceived.

Muslims usually throw this verse from the bible back at us:

“So now, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours, but the LORD himself has decreed evil against you." – 1 Kings 22:23

God bless,