Mohammed

[sedonaman]

Even if you take them away, Mohammed claims he himself is the restorer of the true prophets and their true teachings that we Christians so cleverly distorted.

This is what I don’t get about Muslims, on one hand they claim we were deceived by God at the crucifixion event of Jesus on the other hand we Christians distorted the truth by editing the bible. So we were deceived by God and we deliberately deceive others…

God bless,

These essays kinda nail it:

Deceptive God, Incompetent Messiah

Evidentiary Religions – Islam Introduction

The second one is quite long, but you can skip over the references and still get the thesis then go back and check them for accuracy if needed.

God bless

 

[Bernadette173]

Amoon,
If God [Allah], is perfect, and everything is possible with God [Allah], and God is limitless.in what He can do,This then implies that God’s word can change, His revelations can be changed at will. God can do as He pleases?

No, God’s nature is reasonable , good, and true. God cannot do anything unreasonable., evil, or false. These things would contradict God’s perfect nature. (Sura 2 :106) The Qur’an teaches the rule of abrogation, or nullification of previous verse and ‘cause it to be forgotten’’, and He can ‘’ change one verse for another. ( God knows best what He reveals)’’ ( Sura 16:101)
This means that God can cancel previous teachiings, i.e. the Torah, the New Testament, the foudations of most previous religions. That God’s word does not have to be consistent. God is free to contradict Hiimself.
A God who can change is not perfect. Perfection means lacking NOTHING. and having NO deficiency. If God is changing His mind there are only 2 possibilities [1] His second thought was better than His first. Meaning it lacked something. Or [2] His second thought is worse than His first. In which case the second one lacks something. Either way God’s thought lacked something, and therefore was imperfect.
If God’s 99 names one of them is Al Baqi ‘The Ever Enduring and Immutable’’ . How is it that God’s word can be abrogated and mutable, when His name means Immutable, unchangeable?
How can it be that the words of God are changeable by abrogation, when the Qur’an teaches that God’s word is unchangable? Sura 48:23 " You shall find no change in the ways of God." Sura 6:115 says " " Perfected are the words of your Lord in truth and justice. None can change His words." How can one support abrogation and the changing of word and verse when the Qur’an strictly forbids this?
If God can do anything without limitation what is to prevent Him from commanding Muslims to worship the Trinity? What could prevent Him from declaring Muhammed as a false prophet, as many Muslims claim Jesus is? What could prevent Him from not existing? If God is unbound by logic and reason, then Muslims can’t say that these ideas are absurd or unreasonable., because God is mutable by Muslim standards, no?

Do Muslims believe that God is infinitely perfect? What could He possibly improve or need to change? Change of any kind implies (name removed by moderator)erfection What could He possibly change into? And if He lacks nothing, wouldn’t change be a step closer to imperfection?

 

[Amoon]

Hello Amoon,
The following verses come from the Gospel of St. John:
1 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God.

2 He was with God in the beginning.

3 Through him all things came into being, not one thing came into being except through him.

4 What has come into being in him was life, life that was the light of men;

5 and light shines in darkness, and darkness could not overpower it.

Jesus always existed because he is God.

Peace

But Jesus said in the Bible that no One has ever seen God, If Jesus was god as you say, then how come he would say that while people were looking at him?

Muslims also believe that no one has ever seen God, and when Prophet Moses asked God if he could see him God said {Quran 7: 143-144.} When Moses came to the place appointed by Us and his Lord addressed him, He said: “O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon Thee.” Allah said: “By no means canst thou see Me (direct); but look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me.” When his Lord manifested Himself to the Mount, He made it as dust, and Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: “Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.” (Allah) said: "O Moses! I have chosen thee above (other) men, by the mission I (have Given thee) and the words I (have spoken to thee): take then the (revelation) Which I give thee, And be of those Who give thanks."

Jesus admitted that God’s knowledge is greater than his knowledge. As in the Bible, when he was asked about the Hour, the Day of Judgment, he said that only God knows about it.

Even when Prophet Mohammed was asked about the Hour, he said the same. Quran 7:187. They ask thee about the (final) Hour― when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you. They ask thee as if thou wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not."

 

[Amoon]

We believe as the word of God tells us, that There are 3 persons, in ONE GOD. When we pray to the Holy Spirit, which I think we agree on you do also, you see the Holy Spirit as God also do you not?

The Trinity is just 3 ways in which God choose to reveal himself. As the Word, the Son, (the word made flesh) and the Holy Spirit. We still have and always have prayed to and worshiped ONE GOD. The Son is ONE in BEING with the Father, the same as the Holy Spirit is.

We believe that the spirit is a creation of God as well as Prophet Jesus, and we only worship the Creator and not His creations.

 

[Amoon]

Amoon,
If God [Allah], is perfect, and everything is possible with God [Allah], and God is limitless.in what He can do,This then implies that God’s word can change, His revelations can be changed at will. God can do as He pleases?

No, God’s nature is reasonable , good, and true. God cannot do anything unreasonable., evil, or false. These things would contradict God’s perfect nature. (Sura 2 :106) The Qur’an teaches the rule of abrogation, or nullification of previous verse and ‘cause it to be forgotten’’, and He can ‘’ change one verse for another. ( God knows best what He reveals)’’ ( Sura 16:101)
This means that God can cancel previous teachiings, i.e. the Torah, the New Testament, the foudations of most previous religions. That God’s word does not have to be consistent. God is free to contradict Hiimself.
A God who can change is not perfect. Perfection means lacking NOTHING. and having NO deficiency. If God is changing His mind there are only 2 possibilities [1] His second thought was better than His first. Meaning it lacked something. Or [2] His second thought is worse than His first. In which case the second one lacks something. Either way God’s thought lacked something, and therefore was imperfect.
If God’s 99 names one of them is Al Baqi ‘The Ever Enduring and Immutable’’ . How is it that God’s word can be abrogated and mutable, when His name means Immutable, unchangeable?
How can it be that the words of God are changeable by abrogation, when the Qur’an teaches that God’s word is unchangable? Sura 48:23 " You shall find no change in the ways of God." Sura 6:115 says " " Perfected are the words of your Lord in truth and justice. None can change His words." How can one support abrogation and the changing of word and verse when the Qur’an strictly forbids this?
If God can do anything without limitation what is to prevent Him from commanding Muslims to worship the Trinity? What could prevent Him from declaring Muhammed as a false prophet, as many Muslims claim Jesus is? What could prevent Him from not existing? If God is unbound by logic and reason, then Muslims can’t say that these ideas are absurd or unreasonable., because God is mutable by Muslim standards, no?

Do Muslims believe that God is infinitely perfect? What could He possibly improve or need to change? Change of any kind implies (name removed by moderator)erfection What could He possibly change into? And if He lacks nothing, wouldn’t change be a step closer to imperfection?

I think you should direct these questions to yourselves, because we believe that God is Perfect and His teaching never change. Look at the teachings of Adam, Abraham, David, Noah, and all the Prophets of God, did anyone of them worship anything but God? They all came to people with one same message: Worship God alone, and do not associate partners with Him. Jesus did the same as all the Prophets. But actually you are the ones who claim that suddenly God changed His mind! And asked people to worship the father, son, and holy spirit. Prophet Mohammed was sent to teach the same message of all the Prophets, he said worship God alone.

Again, it is Muslims who believe the God’s perfect nature does not change. We believe that anything that makes God imperfect should not be attributed to Him. So saying that God can be born, eat, sleep, pray, die …, are all means of imperfection. We know that God can do anything, but He cannot do anything that is against His own nature because He is “Perfect”.

 

[Bernadette173]

I think you should direct these questions to yourselves, because we believe that God is Perfect and His teaching never change. Look at the teachings of Adam, Abraham, David, Noah, and all the Prophets of God, did anyone of them worship anything but God? They all came to people with one same message: Worship God alone, and do not associate partners with Him. Jesus did the same as all the Prophets. But actually you are the ones who claim that suddenly God changed His mind! And asked people to worship the father, son, and holy spirit. Prophet Mohammed was sent to teach the same message of all the Prophets, he said worship God alone.

Again, it is Muslims who believe the God’s perfect nature does not change. We believe that anything that makes God imperfect should not be attributed to Him. So saying that God can be born, eat, sleep, pray, die …, are all means of imperfection. We know that God can do anything, but He cannot do anything that is against His own nature because He is “Perfect”.

Then it is that Muslims believe that prophets have only come to man in the past, and that Jesus was a false prophet? And that God could not or would not desire to make Himself known to His people via the Incarnatetion, meaning that no one had relations with Mary, that the Holy Spirit, and God Himself cannot place Himself in the womb of a woman who is without sin, and be made flesh human] AND Divine [Being A God, the God of eternity] to live among mankind, eat, sleep,etc, and give His life as a ransom…in a show of love to His people to teach them love, and not force, to bestow free will, and allow people to come to Him? So that they may live in Heaven with God the Almighty? So that through love of neighbor a creation of God, can gain access to see the God of eternity? This is where we Catholics do not understand the thinking of Muslims. If God created man to know Him and to love Him, why would God want to punish those who do want to know His nature, and His nature and Self? But in Islam He cannot or will not reveal His truth and self to us? Only lays down the commandment to follow Him?

 

[Augustine3]

I think you should direct these questions to yourselves, because we believe that God is Perfect and His teaching never change.

Really? There are multiple verses in the Quran that abrogates one for another. God even admits it in Surah 13:19. Here’s an example of abrogation:

“Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians, - Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” – Surah 2:62

Abrogated by:

“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost” – Surah 3:85

Look at the teachings of Adam, Abraham, David, Noah, and all the Prophets of God, did anyone of them worship anything but God? They all came to people with one same message: Worship God alone, and do not associate partners with Him.

Mohammed associated al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat partners with God…

God bless,

 

[sedonaman]

… Again, it is Muslims who believe the God’s perfect nature does not change. …

We’ve had these discussions on Allah’s nature before and were told by Muslim posters that Allah’s nature cannot be known, that only his will can be known. Now you are telling us something different. So which is it?

 

[Amoon]

Really? There are multiple verses in the Quran that abrogates one for another. God even admits it in Surah 13:19. Here’s an example of abrogation:

“Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians, - Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” – Surah 2:62

Abrogated by:

“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost” – Surah 3:85

Mohammed associated al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat partners with God…

God bless,

I don’t see any contradiction or abrogation in the two verses. The first one saying that the followers of God’s Messengers and their revelations will be rewarded. So those who followed Prophet Moses and the Torah will be rewarded as they were in the right path at that time, and those who followed Prophet Jesus were in the right path, but can you still say that Jews are in the right path now, not believing in Prophet Jesus? No. The same for Christians who are not following Prophet Mohammed and deny that he is the last Messenger that God sent, they are not in the right path as well. Hence, anyone who desires any religion other than Islam will not be accepted from him.

And with regard to your second comment, no, Prophet Mohammed did not associate partners with God, these are the names of the idols that the pagans where worshipping. If Prophet Mohammed associated anything with God, he would have asked us to do so right? But this is an unreasonable argument!

Quran 53:1-23. By the Star when it setteth, (1) Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived; (2) Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire. (3) It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired, (4) Which one of mighty powers hath taught him, (5) One vigorous; and he grew clear to view (6) When he was on the uppermost horizon. (7) Then he drew nigh and came down (8) Till he was (distant) two bows’ length or even nearer, (9) And He revealed unto His slave that which He revealed. (10) The heart lied not (in seeing) what it saw. (11) Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he seeth? (12) And verily he saw him yet another time (13) By the lote-tree of the utmost boundary, (14) Nigh unto which is the Garden of Abode. (15) When that which shroudeth did enshroud the lote-tree, (16) The eye turned not aside nor yet was overbold. (17) Verily he saw one of the greater revelations of his Lord. (18) Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza (19) And Manat, the third, the other? (20) Are yours the males and His the females? (21) That indeed were an unfair division! (22) They are but names which ye have named, ye and your fathers, for which Allah hath revealed no warrant. They follow but a guess and that which (they) themselves desire. And now the guidance from their Lord hath come unto them. (23)

 

[Amoon]

We’ve had these discussions on Allah’s nature before and were told by Muslim posters that Allah’s nature cannot be known, that only his will can be known. Now you are telling us something different. So which is it?

But don’t you also agree that God is Perfect? And don’t you also agree that to be in need of something or someone is a sign of imperfection?

You cannot equalize Prophet Jesus to God, The Almighty because Jesus was a messenger of God and he prayed to God, He asked his followers to worship God alone and not himself, He admitted that God’s Knowledge is greater than his knowledge. Where are the verses where Jesus said worship me? There must be tons of them as this is the core of your belief. Please put down all the verses where Jesus said explicitly worship me as god?

 

[Augustine3]

But don’t you also agree that God is Perfect? And don’t you also agree that to be in need of something or someone is a sign of imperfection?

You cannot equalize Prophet Jesus to God, The Almighty because Jesus was a messenger of God and he prayed to God, He asked his followers to worship God alone and not himself, He admitted that God’s Knowledge is greater than his knowledge. Where are the verses where Jesus said worship me? There must be tons of them as this is the core of your belief. Please put down all the verses where Jesus said explicitly worship me as god?

 

[MartinJordan]

But don’t you also agree that God is Perfect? And don’t you also agree that to be in need of something or someone is a sign of imperfection?

You cannot equalize Prophet Jesus to God, The Almighty because Jesus was a messenger of God and he prayed to God, He asked his followers to worship God alone and not himself, He admitted that God’s Knowledge is greater than his knowledge. Where are the verses where Jesus said worship me? There must be tons of them as this is the core of your belief. Please put down all the verses where Jesus said explicitly worship me as god?

Hi Amoon. I know you didn’t ask me specifically but here’s something you may mind helpful.

Your confusion is nothing new. But you must read the Bible in the proper context. Besides the Jews knew EXACTLY what Jesus meant.

Jesus always spoke of one who was with authority. The Jews already got the point that people (their own) were starting to follow because Jesus they realized he was the one the Prophets spoke about, someone directly from God Himself who will set things right and God will always keep his promises.

Some Bible verses you can have a look at:

And the Lord God (Greek. ho kurios ho theos, the Lord the God) of the spirits of the prophets sent his angel to show his servants the things which must be done shortly" (Rev. 22:6).

So who is the Lord God who sent “his angel” in this verse? Also look at verse 22:16, *** which is 10 verses later***, reveals to us who “the Lord God” is who has "sent his angel: " I** Jesus have sent my angel, to testify to you these things in the churches**. Thus Jesus is clearly - the Lord God of the spirits of the prophets!

In Luke 12:8-9, angels are called “angels of God”; in Matthew 13:41, angels are called “[Jesus’] angels.” Jesus and God are synonymous. Jesus does what only God can do.

He forgives sins by his own authority ( in the OT at Isaiah 43:25; even Mark 2:5-9). He judges the world in Matthew 25:31-46. Also see Genesis 18:25 and Joel 3:12 (OT)

Jesus refers to himself with the divine name—I am —in several places. This “I am” formula is a reference back to the Divine Name revealed to Moses in Ex. 3:14 (OT).

Jesus refer to himself as “I am” four times in John’s Gospel (pls see John 8:24; 58; 13:19 and 18:5-6), but when he does so in John 8:58, the Jews to whom he was speaking understood his meaning because they immediately wanted to stone him for blasphemy! ( See my first sentence)

Jesus places his word on the same level as the word of God—the Old Testament. “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . .” (see Matt. 5:21-28). Look at the OT, in contrast to the prophets of old who always made clear the word they were speaking was not their own: "The word of the Lord came unto me, saying . . . " (pls see in OT Jer. 1:11; Ezek. 1:3, etc.). Thus** Only God possesses this kind of authority**.

Jesus is referred to as “equal” In John 5:18, the author comments on why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus: “Because he called God his Father, making himself equal with God.”

Paul refers to Jesus when he was “in the form (Gk. morphe; in Greek usage this word means the set of characteristics that makes a thing what it is) of God” thinking “his equality with God” **not something to be grasped onto, but emptying himself and becoming man **( Pls see Phil. 2:6-10

1. Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
   
   7But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
   
   8He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.
   
   9For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names:
   
   10That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth.

Thus In proper context Paul assumes his readers already knew Jesus to be equal with God, the Father.

Jesus calls himself “the Lord of the Sabbath” in Mark 2:28. The Sabbath is referred to as the “Sabbath of Yahweh” in the Old Testament ( see in the OT in Ex. 20:10; see also Isaiah. 8:13, referred to in 1 Peter 3:15; and Joel 2:31-32, both quoted in Acts 2:20-21 and in Rom. 10:13).

In Revelation 22:6, 13, 16, we find Jesus revealing himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”.

Peace.

MJ

 

[sedonaman]

I don’t see any contradiction or abrogation in the two verses. The first one saying that the followers of God’s Messengers and their revelations will be rewarded. So those who followed Prophet Moses and the Torah will be rewarded as they were in the right path at that time, and those who followed Prophet Jesus were in the right path, but can you still say that Jews are in the right path now, not believing in Prophet Jesus? No. The same for Christians who are not following Prophet Mohammed and deny that he is the last Messenger that God sent, they are not in the right path as well.
…
Hence, anyone who desires any religion other than Islam will not be accepted from him.
…

Christians who follow Mohammed and the religion of Islam are not Christians; they are Muslims, so your argument doesn’t hold water, hence the contradiction/abrogation is true.

 

[sedonaman]

But don’t you also agree that God is Perfect? And don’t you also agree that to be in need of something or someone is a sign of imperfection?

You cannot equalize Prophet Jesus to God, The Almighty because Jesus was a messenger of God and he prayed to God, He asked his followers to worship God alone and not himself, He admitted that God’s Knowledge is greater than his knowledge. Where are the verses where Jesus said worship me? There must be tons of them as this is the core of your belief. Please put down all the verses where Jesus said explicitly worship me as god?

Try answering my question without other questions.

 

[Isa_Abdur_Rabb]

In regards to the apparitions from the angel Gabriel to Mohammed and if the apparitions are true or is this a false religion, I think this information will be helpful as the main clue:

In the Old and New Testaments, when an apparition comes from heaven, the messenger always has the same comment and it is “Do Not Be afraid”. This is the same as the angel Gabriel to Mary and Jesus at the Transfiguration as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima, etc. If the messenger does not address the person with “Do not be afraid”, I think the safe bet is “Do not believe”. I do not remember Gariel saying tis to Mohammed.

Peace

I’m disappointed that someone would make important decisions like this on the basis of so thin an argument.

Nor does this “rule” you have manufactured even account for all of the tales of revelation to be found in the Old and New Testaments.

 

[Isa_Abdur_Rabb]

Not to mention mohammed was fearful of the angel. Personally, I don’t doubt for a minute that Mohammed was visited by an angel. I just don’t think his name was Gabriel. Reality would suggest his name was Lucifer. This would explain the present day world of islamic countries and really all of islam since it was created. Nothing good comes from islam. That isn’t to say muslim people are bad. I’m certainly not advocating that. But the belief of islam is one that draws stark contrast to what Christ taught and believed.

Let’s think on that a little.

• From humble beginnings in Arabia, the first generation of Muslims created the (up until then) largest empire the world had ever known.
• It was this civilization would preserved and translated any number of works either never known to the western world (like those of philosophy and science from the dharmic civilizations, far east, etc.), or which the collapse of Roman civilization in western Europe (and its deterioration in the east) had let fall to the wayside. The re-emergence of these works in the west was precisely because of the Islamic civilization you claim “nothing good” comes from.
• Fear of God (and His punishments), while no longer popular in the modern understanding of Christianity (which has in many places succumbed to secular “self help” type patterns of thought), was once considered virtuous by Christians themselves. Even the New Testament records this explicitly (ex. fear not the one who can harm the body, but He Who can kill the body and soul in the hellfire, etc.)
• Where does the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Messenger of God (Muhammed, may God honor him and grant him peace!) disagree with the Christians? Where they disagree either amongst themselves or those who honor the Law of Moses (peace be upon him.) Jesus - peace be upon him - did not call to himself, even according to the present New Testament. He affirmed the uniqueness and oness of God, the Most High. What “evil” do the Muslims call to? Frankly, what they call to is that which you’d find in your own books (even in their present form) if you were to obey them.

 

[LtTony]

Christians who follow Mohammed and the religion of Islam are not Christians; they are Muslims, so your argument doesn’t hold water, hence the contradiction/abrogation is true.

You’re correct, sedona, but so is amoon from the muslim perspective.

What he is saying is this: righteous jews prior to Christ were rewarded; the earliest christians who followed Christ (the way Islam says He should have been followed) received their reward too. But not us Christians who follow a corrupted version of the faith.

In other words, Muslims are Jews and Christians correctly following God.

Of course the problem with the above is that the Koran says multiple times that it is clear, when in fact it isn’t. It also says this book of “clear” revelation containes phrases that only God understands. Further, it also says God tricked us with Jesus’ death.

Of course, according to the Koran, I’m only pointing these things out because I’m a liar in league with Satan; that people who “understand” the Kpran obviously became Muslim. That is also false, of course. There are good, God-fearing people in the world who honestly don’t “understand” the book.

 

[LtTony]

To evangelize Muslims you have to convince them how could a demon come to Prophet Mohammed asking him to teach people that God is One. Arabs back then were worshipping statues and demons were very happy seeing them do so.

It is not that difficult to believe that Prophet Mohammed was visited by an angel, Angel Gabriel, because the teachings of Islam can no way be brought to us by demons.

Consider that demons might be the onse who visited those who came up with the idea that Jesus is the son of god…

You then continue to prattle on about Jesus and christianity.

Islam should be able to stand on its own. Period. Separate and independent of Christianity.

So please tell us, prove to us that the devil didn’t mislead your prophet.

“It is not that difficult to believe that Prophet Mohammed was visited by an angel”

Sure it is. What proof is there that he was visited by angel, that Mohammad wasn’t hallucinating, or crazy or just plain making things up to empower himself?

" because the teachings of Islam can no way be brought to us by demons."

Sure it could have been. Not saying it was, but there is nothing in Islam that prevents it from being false. Nothing.

What make you think Mohammed didn’t hear about Christ the same way we did? Through the Apostles, Why would he need a angel?

Good question. There must have been sects of so-called christians that denied the trinity. Why didn’t Mohammad go to them and embrace/approve their faith? Unlikely, however, that there were “Christians” that denied the death and ressurection. Mohammad had to create a completely new religion to fit his program.

Denying the death and resuurection (and not providing a clear alternative) is the downfall of Islam, imo.

 

[LtTony]

But Jesus said in the Bible that no One has ever seen God, If Jesus was god as you say, then how come he would say that while people were looking at him?

That is not what John 1:18 says (if that is the verse you are talking about)

“18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God…”

gotquestions.org/seen-God.html

 

[LtTony]

The difference here is that while Islam rejects the Bible because it contradicts the Qur’an, it turns around and relies on the Bible for its own verification. The Bible makes no allowance for the Qur’an.

The most glaring example is the claim that the Bible predicted Mohammed. If you start by assuming the Bible is erroneous, how could your conclusions based on it be true?

“it turns around and relies on the Bible for its own verification.”

I don’t think Islam does, but a lot of Muslims use the type of argument you are talking about. When you ask them about it, they reply essentially, 'Well, some parts of the Bible are true. The ones that agree with the Koran."

On the Bible prediction of Mohammad, technically, I don’t think the Koran says that. Only Muslims desparate to “prove” their religious beliefs.

Serious Muslims scholars do not believe the entire bible is corrupt, only certain parts of it. They use the Quran as the criterion to ascertain what part of the Bible is corrupt or pure. In other words the parts of the bible that agree with the Quran is authentic and the parts that don’t agree with the Quran is corrupt.

How convenient for them really…

Exactly

This is what I don’t get about Muslims, on one hand they claim we were deceived by God at the crucifixion event of Jesus on the other hand we Christians distorted the truth by editing the bible. So we were deceived by God and we deliberately deceive others…

It does appear to be a contradiction.

…You believe the early Christians believed in doctrines that Christ did not teach, the problem is you have no proof besides the Quran. Unfortunately for you there is no other evidence you can put forward to support your claim. The Quran does not suffice because you cannot prove it is of divine origin it also contradicts history.

Yes, before Mohammad can claim the Christian Gospel corrupted, he has to produce an uncorrupted version independent of the Koran.

Christ made extraordinary claims that a prophet would not make. Muslims bury their heads in the sand to ignore these facts only because they believe in the Qur’an. Muslims have no evidence from the time of Jesus demonstrating that the religion he brought was ever corrupted.

Exactly.

Besides, the Jewish people were strictly monotheist, so why would God send yet another prophet to encourage them to continue doing something they were already enthusiastic about? It would be as if the president of France sent a representative to the United States to teach people who love baseball and apple pie how to be better Americans.

This part, I don’t know. Were they “enthusiastically” following their scriptures? While Christ was fulfillment of scripture, had the Jews – as a people – gone astray? Christ was very critical of the way Jewish religious authorities were leading their people.