Mohammed

[sedonaman]

So you think if Quran is the Word of God, it should mention the above things exactly the same as Jesus taught? Jesus and Mohammed are two messengers of God, and their teachings must be similar but it is not necessarily to be mentioned in the exact same way. …

This is a contradiction of

1. Prophet Mohammed did not bring a new faith that contradicts with the teachings of the other Messengers that God sent before him. His teaching is not different than the teaching of Abraham, Noah, Jacob, David, Moses, and all the Prophets of God who came to guide people to the One True God, including Prophet Jesus of course, who delivered the exact same teaching.

Mohammed clearly rejects the Beatitudes as “corruptions”. They are the highest ideals of the teachings of Jesus on mercy, spirituality, and compassion. It is hard to imagine how Islam can omit these teachings and claim to believe that Jesus was a great teacher.

Since the Lord’s Prayer does not contain references to “partners”, it should not present any objection by Islamic teaching, and since it does not appear in Islamic scriptures, it must also be a “corruption”.

Dare I mention the parable of the prodigal son?

For Muslims, all the prayers are for God alone, and we do not associate partners with the All-Mighty. The problem with Christians is that they do associate partners with God, and the fact is that neither the Quran nor the Bible mentioned anything of Jesus being God, and Jesus himslef insisted in different occasions that God is greater than him. So, if you only agree with Muslims in this point, you will realize that Islam is your only path to salvation.

This is not an answer to anything, just an oft-repeated belief.

The bottom line on this exchange is that Mohammed did not teach the same things that Jesus and the prior prophets did and is therefore not a prophet himself.

 

[sedonaman]

… If you go back to the posts in this thread, you will see that there are many posts that are insulting for Muslims and I believe that I have the right to defend my faith.

No one is insulting Muslims. It seems that any critique of Islam is “insulting” Islam, Mohammed, or Muslims. If that is the case, there is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Miriam1947]

edit . . .

For Muslims, all the prayers are for God alone, and we do not associate partners with the All-Mighty. The problem with Christians is that they do associate partners with God, and the fact is that neither the Quran nor the Bible mentioned anything of Jesus being God, and Jesus himslef insisted in different occasions that God is greater than him. So, if you only agree with Muslims in this point, you will realize that Islam is your only path to salvation.

The NT does more than mention Jesus as God~when Jesus says ‘I AM’ he is saying that he is God.

But to get to your other point: If I reject Christ as God why would Islam be my only path to salvation? In that case my only path would be Judaism since it was the Jews who first worshipped and taught One God.

 

[Armyvet007]

The NT does more than mention Jesus as God when Jesus says ‘I AM’ he is saying that he is God.

But to get to your other point: If I reject Christ as God why would Islam be my only path to salvation? In that case my only path would be Judaism since it was the Jews who first worshipped and taught One God.

Exactly. Islam tries to get around this by claiming both Christianity and Judaism have been corrupted.

 

[Peace_of_cake]

ya I heard some people explaining it as an apple that has three parts but still one apple. Or an egg that has three parts but still one egg, and a family of three members but still one family! I was never convinced actually. How can you explain it?

there is a lot of stuff out there and some of it is very complicated. I do not think the analogies you mention are good ones at all as they seem very much 3 parts of 1 which is not it at all. The best analogy I heard is something like Mozart as in his character as a husband, a pionist etc. Whilst Mozart is always Mozart, he is different in his capacity as a husband as he is to his capacity as pionist. It is still the same mind, it’s not divisible, but a difference is noted.
Mufti Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf explained an analogy between the Essence and attributes of God as a person as a son, husband or father etc. A person can be many things, but is still the same person. The relationship with another is what changes the ‘status’ if you will.
Assuming these are both good analogies (I think they are) then they both affirm unity but a certain sense of multiplicity - there has to be for humans to have any sort of relationship/understanding of God - however the Christian view is more an internal difference and the Islamic external. We probably feel we have a more personal understanding of God whilst you probably feel this is presuming too much and adds a changable element to Gods constancy.
Anyway, that would be my understanding

 

[Trebor135]

there is a lot of stuff out there and some of it is very complicated. I do not think the analogies you mention are good ones at all as they seem very much 3 parts of 1 which is not it at all. The best analogy I heard is something like Mozart as in his character as a husband, a pionist etc. Whilst Mozart is always Mozart, he is different in his capacity as a husband as he is to his capacity as pionist. It is still the same mind, it’s not divisible, but a difference is noted.

This explanation is reminiscent of the doctrine of modalism, whereby God makes himself known in time in three forms–God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

I prefer the analogy of the sun. See an excerpt from the work of an Early Church Father along these lines here: “Tertullian explains the Trinity”.

We probably feel we have a more personal understanding of God whilst you probably feel this is presuming too much and adds a changable element to Gods constancy.

Which is why the Mozart-as-father-and-pianist comparison brings more fog than light. The trinity–Father, Son, and Holy Spirit–have always existed. God doesn’t change.

 

[Trebor135]

I have never learnt that Quran should be the word by word translation of the Bible, and the Bible should be word by word translation of the Torah! God sent these three revelations for different nations in different times, and they are not intended to be exactly the same. However, the teachings in all these revelations are similar, as they were all sent to guide people to the One True God, and teach them to be righteous and forbid them from bad deeds.

When Jesus lived in first-century Palestine, The Jewish people weren’t worshipping other gods or idols. They weren’t conducting child sacrifice or encouraging adultery.

How could Jesus “guide [them] to the One True God” when the Jewish people were already following him devotedly? How could Jesus “teach them to be righteous and forbid them from bad deeds” when they weren’t engaging in any behaviour that we should find shockingly sinful and meriting the intervention of a prophet.

ya I heard some people explaining it as an apple that has three parts but still one apple. Or an egg that has three parts but still one egg, and a family of three members but still one family! I was never convinced actually. How can you explain it?
How can you convince me that Jesus is God while he admitted that God is greater than him? And how can he be god while he did not know the answer when he was asked about the Hour?

These analogies all fail to convey the correct understanding of the trinity.

I prefer the sun analogy. As Tertullian, a Christian writer of the second and third centuries, wrote:

Even when a ray is shot forth from the Sun, though it be but a part from the whole, yet the Sun is in the ray, in asmuch as it is the ray of the Sun; nor is its substance separated, but, so to say, drawn out. In like manner there is Spirit from Spirit, and God from God. As when a light is kindled from another, [the] original light remains entire and undiminished, though you borrow from it many like itself; so That Which proceeds from God, is called at once God, and the Son of God, and the Two are One.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Even if, I don’t think its working. I don’t see anyone here leaving Christianity for Islam.

 

[Augustine3]

One of the other issues I’ve been pondering over is Mohammed’s desire to marry Aisha. Muslims justify it saying he waited till she matured at the age of 9 then married her. There are two issues I would like to raise.

• It has been reported in one of the hadiths on the night of their martial consummation the 9 year old Aisha was still playing her dolls. Regardless of the culture during the time it’s obvious she was not mature enough for marriage

• Regardless that Mohammed waited till she was 9, he was still desiring to marry her at the age of 7 which means he felt some sexual desire toward her. That’s looks like pedophiledia.

Our Lord said “a tree is known by its fruit” this is the fruit of the greatest prophet? This is not to degrade Muslims I’m just hoping Muslims would clarify this…

 

[rinnie]

I think a (Catholic) opened this thread with the title (Mohammed) to learn more about Islam, and I am trying to explain to you why Muslims believe Islam is the True religion of God. Of course I will be putting verses of Quran to support my belief. If you go back to the posts in this thread, you will see that there are many posts that are insulting for Muslims and I believe that I have the right to defend my faith.

I agree with you. You indeed have that right. And while I disagree with much of your teaching I admire you for defending God the best way you know how.

Now I do have a question, You stated that Muhammad and Jesus were 2 great prophets, but the teaching does not have to be exact.

Okay now here is a great problem. God does not have 2 sets of rules. Simply because there cannot be 2 truths. Only One.

Now how can there be 2 different teachings then and one truth? There cannot do you not agree?

And thank-you for putting the verses of the Quran to show what you are saying. I think we also should show ours so we can both see where we are each comming from.

Again may I thank you for your patience in this, I know it is hard and pray you do not feel ganged up on.

 

[rinnie]

Even if, I don’t think its working. I don’t see anyone here leaving Christianity for Islam.

I don’t believe anyone could. Simply because we are led by the power of the Holy Spirit. When the truth is revealed to you, and if you are one of God’s you cannot turn you back on it.

Christ tells us in the scripture. John 14:7 I am the way the truth and the life. then in 23 Anyone who loves me will keep my word.

Then in 15 If you keep my commandments you will remain in my love just as I have kept my Fathers commandments and remained in his love.

 

[Peace_of_cake]

I agree with you. You indeed have that right. And while I disagree with much of your teaching I admire you for defending God the best way you know how.

Now I do have a question, You stated that Muhammad and Jesus were 2 great prophets, but the teaching does not have to be exact.

Okay now here is a great problem. God does not have 2 sets of rules. Simply because there cannot be 2 truths. Only One.

Now how can there be 2 different teachings then and one truth? There cannot do you not agree?

And thank-you for putting the verses of the Quran to show what you are saying. I think we also should show ours so we can both see where we are each comming from.

Again may I thank you for your patience in this, I know it is hard and pray you do not feel ganged up on.

This was a very graciously asked question May I live up to your fine example, amen!
I believe their argument here is that the message of monotheism is the same, but the practicals of the religion like acts of worship etc may change. For example they often mention how the Children of Israel had to pray at their homes or the Synagogue, but through the ‘Mercy’ of Islam the whole globe became a mosque so one could pray anywhere. They would argue the message of Divine Unity (i.e. Creed) was the same for the Children of Israel, however, and any discrepancies we see now between Judaism and Islam are mans meddling or forgetting etc.
Sometimes people get confused with verses/hadith that claim Muhammad is the greatest and those that don’t discriminate between the Prophets. This is for the same reason; there is no discrimination in the purity of the message of Divine Unity, but there may be differences other than that. Jonah is singled out here because the argument goes that even in the whale’s belly at the bottom of the ocean, the light of Divine Unity he brought was equal to that of Muhammad at the zenith of his rule over all Arabia.
That would be from what I’ve understood, I hope that helps

 

[Bible_is_truth]

In regards to the apparitions from the angel Gabriel to Mohammed and if the apparitions are true or is this a false religion, I think this information will be helpful as the main clue:

In the Old and New Testaments, when an apparition comes from heaven, the messenger always has the same comment and it is “Do Not Be afraid”. This is the same as the angel Gabriel to Mary and Jesus at the Transfiguration as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima, etc. If the messenger does not address the person with “Do not be afraid”, I think the safe bet is “Do not believe”. I do not remember Gariel saying tis to Mohammed.

Peace

To all.
How do you know it is from heaven without testing the spirit .Angel Gabriel to M.
This character claimed an Angel came to him,and gave him the Koran via an Interpreter.
What Angel would say ,God has no Son,whoever believes that is a liar .
Jesus said many will come even Satan as a Bright Shining Angel to deceive ,if it were possible even the elect. ( need I say more.)
As with any apparition,we all should know what the Bible teaching is, To test the Spirit Read …1 John 4 v 1- 3
Any one can talk about Jesus ,even apparitions, yet I personally doubt any one who claims they have been visited or otherwise by these beings as from God ,unless they quote 1 John 4 v 1-3. to them …Unless such beings affirm both the full deity and the full humanity of Jesus they are NOT confessing Jesus but as John states in unequivocal terms ,they are under the influence of the Spirit of the Anti Christ…So believe what you will, if you were visited by such a being, at your peril, without first Testing the Spirit.
I am very serious on that.
Blessings to you

 

[Amoon]

But to get to your other point: If I reject Christ as God why would Islam be my only path to salvation? In that case my only path would be Judaism since it was the Jews who first worshipped and taught One God.

Do Jews see Jesus as a great Prophet of God?
Do they respect Mary as the best woman of all nations?
Do they believe in the miraculous birth of Jesus?

Don’t reject Jesus, but love him in a way that he wants you to love him. I love Jesus so much, but I cannot love him as much as I love God, Glory be to Him.

 

[Amoon]

This explanation is reminiscent of the doctrine of modalism, whereby God makes himself known in time in three forms–God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

I prefer the analogy of the sun. See an excerpt from the work of an Early Church Father along these lines here: “Tertullian explains the Trinity”.

Which is why the Mozart-as-father-and-pianist comparison brings more fog than light. The trinity–Father, Son, and Holy Spirit–have always existed. God doesn’t change.

But why would we need so many explanations of the trinity? isn’t that confusing?

Christians also admit that the trinity is not an easy thing to explain. Doesn’t the Bible say that “God is not the author of confusion”?

For Muslims to say that God is One, they mean it, and it is easily understood because God is One and no buts!

For Christians, God is One, **but ** also Three!

 

[rinnie]

Do Jews see Jesus as a great Prophet of God?
Do they respect Mary as the best woman of all nations?
Do they believe in the miraculous birth of Jesus?

Don’t reject Jesus, but love him in a way that he wants you to love him. I love Jesus so much, but I cannot love him as much as I love God, Glory be to Him.

And we cannot love him any less because he is God.

Christ taught that no one can go the Father without going thru the Son. Simply because the Son and God are one.

Many Jews have come to the truth and accept Christ. The ones who reject him, also reject the N.T.

Now Muhammed claims to accept Christ as a Prophet, but what I do not understand do you not have some of the teachng’s of the N.T.?

Did Muhammed not get many of his teaching’s from the N.T. I am only asking because I do not know, and am trying to understand.

 

[rinnie]

But why would we need so many explanations of the trinity? isn’t that confusing?

Christians also admit that the trinity is not an easy thing to explain. Doesn’t the Bible say that “God is not the author of confusion”?

For Muslims to say that God is One, they mean it, and it is easily understood because God is One and no buts!

For Christians, God is One, **but ** also Three!

This is incorrect. God is one. There are not 3 gods. There is God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all equal and one.

It is ONE GOD made up of separate beings is all.

Like I cannot pray to Jesus without praying to God because they are one in being. Same with praying to the Father and Son. All the Same.

 

[rinnie]

But why would we need so many explanations of the trinity? isn’t that confusing?

Christians also admit that the trinity is not an easy thing to explain. Doesn’t the Bible say that “God is not the author of confusion”?

For Muslims to say that God is One, they mean it, and it is easily understood because God is One and no buts!

For Christians, God is One, **but ** also Three!

And yes quite difficult to understand, and above our understanding at times. It is called a great Mystery of our faith.

It is not the only mystery about our God that we have.

You must admit you have many questions also you do not quite understand.

Another huge mystery for Christians is suffering. They do not understand how sufffering is a way that we can unite our pain to Christ on the Cross.

Many do not understand how Christ can love us and make us suffer, how he can come down and die on the cross for us and suffer himself. No one will ever understand compeltely these things, simply because we do not have the mind of God.

Many things we cannot understand. Like when you were a Child and your Father would not let you do something, at the time you did not understand, or why were you punished. It was only later on that you learned it was great love. Just as punishment does not make sense to a child but later it becomes clear, all things will become clear when we meet God.

We don’t pretend to know everything, or understand everything, or even to be honest LIKE everything, but we must trust and obey.

 

[rinnie]

To all.
How do you know it is from heaven without testing the spirit .Angel Gabriel to M.
This character claimed an Angel came to him,and gave him the Koran via an Interpreter.
What Angel would say ,God has no Son,whoever believes that is a liar .
Jesus said many will come even Satan as a Bright Shining Angel to deceive ,if it were possible even the elect. ( need I say more.)
As with any apparition,we all should know what the Bible teaching is, To test the Spirit Read …1 John 4 v 1- 3
Any one can talk about Jesus ,even apparitions, yet I personally doubt any one who claims they have been visited or otherwise by these beings as from God ,unless they quote 1 John 4 v 1-3. to them …Unless such beings affirm both the full deity and the full humanity of Jesus they are NOT confessing Jesus but as John states in unequivocal terms ,they are under the influence of the Spirit of the Anti Christ…So believe what you will, if you were visited by such a being, at your peril, without first Testing the Spirit.
I am very serious on that.
Blessings to you

How we know today is by reason and history.

Christ gave us history in the Church, that is how he revealed all things. And he gave us reason to understand things.

We know from the O.T. which is history that we would receive our King. The whole O.T. reveals to us piece by piece who the king will be. Every single thing that was told in the O.T. was fullfilled by Christ.

In the N.T. he did everything. In the N.T. it never says a Prophet will come again. He states ALL that we need to know is revealed to us by Christ, And anthing we need to know will be know to us by the Advocate the Holy Spirit who came to the Church on Pentecost.

The HS is who reveals all truth until Christ comes again in Glory.

He told us HE would come again through the Clouds the same way he left. Until then he told us the Church would be here untill the end of age, and hades would not prevail.

We have the promise from God the Church Cannot teach us a lie, we have that promise. The Advocate would teach. There is no way any human can overpower God and teach in his name and lie to us. If they did they would overpower God and the gates of hades would prevail, and make God a liar. That is how we know the Church will always teach the true word of God. It came from the mouth of Christ.

 

[Amoon]

Most of the Jews were not righteous people even in the life of Prophet Moses. Moreover, they were aware of a Prophet to come after Prophet Moses and they were waiting for him.

Quran 61: 5. And remember, Moses said to his people: “O my people! why do ye vex and insult me though ye know that I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you?” Then when they went wrong, Allah let their hearts go wrong: for Allah guides not those who are rebellious transgressors.

Quran 7: 138. We took the Children of Israel (with safety) across the sea. They came upon a people devoted entirely to some idols they had. They said: “O Moses! fashion for us a god like unto the gods they have.” He said: "surely ye are a people without knowledge.

Quran 4:160-161. For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;― in that they hindered many from Allah’s way.― That they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men’s substance wrongfully;― We have prepared for those among them who reject Faith a grievous punishment.

Quran 2:87. We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not ye, are puffed up with pride? ―Some ye called impostors and others ye slay!

So what about you, why do you think God sent Jesus even though the Jews were worshiping the One True God as you said? Is it to cancel the Law of Moses and declare himself as god?

Quran 3: 48-51. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel. "And (appoint him) an Messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay as it were the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s leave; and I heal those born blind, and the lepers and I quicken the dead by Allah’s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe. "(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me, and to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me. “It is Allah who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a way that is straight.”