Mohammeds last words

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GodIsGracious said:
I see this difference. It is distinct from what Catholics believe.

For me, I like the idea of being able to go to someone and say, “psst… I need help. Will ya help me out here?” Cause that is essentially what we’re doing when we “pray” to saints. 👍

Again, “pray” in this context is we are asking for the saint’s intercessions.Also, in that link, it answers the idea of saints hearing us. It is because God allows them to hear us. Neat, huh? I think so! 🙂
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Yes Indeed, I like the idea of Intersession as well. 👍

From an Islamic point of view however, there is a difference of opinion between the different schools of through. Some outright ban intersession and label it as “shirk” worshiping other than God, others allow it for living people only. While other groups allow intersession with those who passed away with a caveat.

The caveat is that intersession is allowed only to the people whom God granted permission to intercede on behalf of others. Not everyone has been given this privilege.
 
The examples you have provided to Elwill are no different than God commandment to Noah to build an Ark …it’s meant for a specific purpose …far away from worship or adoration…nevertheless, the brass serpant was destroyed later for a legitmate reason…

Shias are very similar to Catholics in their adoration to Saints (Imams)…so Femdigy tends to agree with you …even misintrepting a verse from the Quran to support his belief…
 
QUOTE=(name removed by moderator);5206988]You may disagree with their practise but they are still Muslim.
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JC - I know the Shia and Sunny don’t get along. That’s not my problem.

My post to elwill was the word “shiit” that has used and I said: see my quote below…
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakasaki
Please don’t call them that! Shia not shiits!
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JC, that’s exactly what they think of them.
(name removed by moderator)
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Er the term you were using is uncomfortably close in spelling by chance to a very vulgar and rude word in English for bodily waste.
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You are too kind, but that is not what the intention was behind elwill.

This name (that elwill has used) has been used to label the Shia on so many islamic forums where they are dominated by Sunni. I’ve seen that name way too many times.
 
Femdigy,

Since you like the idea of intercession and devotion to Imams and you put the image of Jesus besides Ali (one worshiped by Christians and the other worshiped by Shias)…you have proven my last point that Shias are very close to Catholics…just read a devotion to Mary and you will see it’s no different than a devotion to Ali and other Imams…also saying Hail Mary is similar to to Shias saying Ya Hussain…even flogging one’s self is found in both Shais and Catholics

Protestants got it right in these points…

and btw I’m not Sunni if you thought so
 
Hadi said:
Femdigy,

Since you like the idea of intercession and devotion to Imams and you put the image of Jesus besides Ali (one worshiped by Christians and the other worshiped by Shias)…you have proven my last point that Shias are very close to Catholics…just read a devotion to Mary and you will see it’s no different than a devotion to Ali and other Imams…also saying Hail Mary is similar to to Shias saying Ya Hussain…even flogging one’s self is found in both Shais and Catholics

Protestants got it right in these points…

and btw I’m not Sunni if you thought so
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We do not worship His image. I guess this won’t sink in since it has been said by many in many different ways. 🤷

I have been a Catholic all my life and I don’t recall flogging myself. I don’t recall my parents ever doing it to themselves, or me and my brothers, for some religious purposes either. Some monks might have done that in the distant past, but I don’t know of any that do that now. Some of them might do it as a symbolic thing. But, they don’t draw the blood like the Shia do. They even cut their own kids.:bigyikes:
 
Hadi said:
Femdigy,

Since you like the idea of intercession and devotion to Imams and you put the image of Jesus besides Ali (one worshiped by Christians and the other worshiped by Shias)…
and btw I’m not Sunni if you thought so
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There are many similarities between Catholics and Shias. In fact, there are many similarities between Jesus and Ali (a). Which I intend to create a thread about.

Perhaps you are not aware, we don’t worship Ali (as), we regard him very highly, second only to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hf) but we don’t worship him any more than we worship the prophet.

With regard to self flagellation and drawing blood, I don’t support the action itself but I do support the expression of grief felt by the mourner.

If someone wants to express their feelings through self flagellation, then it’s their right to do so and is not up to us to restrict the mode of expression on their behalf.

I’m also curious to know what school of thought you follow.
 
famdigy said:
There are many similarities between Catholics and Shias. In fact, there are many similarities between Jesus and Ali (a). Which I intend to create a thread about.

Perhaps you are not aware, we don’t worship Ali (as), we regard him very highly, second only to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hf) but we don’t worship him any more than we worship the prophet.

With regard to self flagellation and drawing blood, I don’t support the action itself but I do support the expression of grief felt by the mourner.

If someone wants to express their feelings through self flagellation, then it’s their right to do so and is not up to us to restrict the mode of expression on their behalf.

I’m also curious to know what school of thought you follow.
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Why do you guys always hang on to other’s religions? Can’t Islam stand on its own? I feel like everytime I read this sort of thing it is like a ‘wannabee’ wish.

But, the similarities in the teachings are like night and day. Why? Because the basics of the teachings for Islam whether it be Shia or Sunni is the Quran. And we have gone over this time and again that the Quran contradicts the Bible and even contradicts itself.

This thread isn’t about the similarities that you think there are, it is about Muhammed’s last words.
 
yes they still muslims but it is different sect , different practices and different beliefs which i believe that it opposing the teaching of mohammed (pbuh)
anyway , i just wanted to say : not to blame or accus me for beliefs of shia , i represent the sunni sect ( the majority of muslims in the world )
Elwill, graven images can be used colloquialy in a wider sense than just to mean sculpture. You find some fundementalist born-again groups use it to refer to pictures/icons/ statues etc.
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i think that we need to specify the concept we are talking about then , what is the graven image which we supposed to talking about !
i’m talking about graves of rightious and the images which used in places of worship , i’m not talking about the sculpturing as an art
My wife is Eastern Orthodox - and they do not use statues in their churchs but rather icons, yet I have seen their use of these labelled as worshipping graven images. The term is misused of course in this instance if one wants to be pedantic as an Icon is a painted image of course.
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that’s involved with what i’m talking about
 
i got it
thank you for showing me that

my apology to famdigy , i really didn’t mean any offenses at all
 
i allready pointed out that these verse have nothing to do with what i’m talking about , i have no objections against these verse
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
I have been looking at some past posts and I found something quite disturbing. It`s Mohammeds last words before he died:

"MUHAMMAD: “May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets.” Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427 [Muhammad had been poisoned years earlier by a Jewish woman whose husband was killed by the Muslims and the poison had slowly worked its effect. He said this while dying in the arms of his wife Aisha]. "

I wanted to ask our Muslim brothers and sisters wether this is true or not. If it is, what is your opinion on it and how do you justify this?
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If he (saws) is dying, and knows that many people out of love for him would turn his grave into a place of worship, doesn’t it make sense to warn his followers against doing this thing?

He died in the arms of his wife, Aisha, in her apartment, which was attached to the mosque. And you know what? That’s where they buried him. And his grave is still inside the mosque in Medina.
 
I have been looking at some past posts and I found something quite disturbing. It`s Mohammeds last words before he died:
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"MUHAMMAD: “May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets.” Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427 [Muhammad had been poisoned years earlier by a Jewish woman whose husband was killed by the Muslims and the poison had slowly worked its effect. He said this while dying in the arms of his wife Aisha]. "
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I wanted to ask our Muslim brothers and sisters wether this is true or not. If it is, what is your opinion on it and how do you justify this?
If he (saws) is dying, and knows that many people out of love for him would turn his grave into a place of worship, doesn’t it make sense to warn his followers against doing this thing?
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He died in the arms of his wife, Aisha, in her apartment, which was attached to the mosque. And you know what? That’s where they buried him. And his grave is still inside the mosque in Medina.
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Er…that only shows how unloving person, full of hatred, full of self righteousness that Muhammad was! How can’t he just said" May Allah forgive them since they don’t realize that it was grave sin!" …?for example?
 
Sister_Amy said:
He died in the arms of his wife, Aisha, in her apartment, which was attached to the mosque. And you know what? That’s where they buried him. And his grave is still inside the mosque in Medina.
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And meedo says its not inside the mosque, so which is it??? 🤷
 
dolphinlove said:
And meedo says its not inside the mosque, so which is it??? 🤷
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both of them are right , plz read what meedo said again

Muslims buried the prophet Muhammed where he died. He died in his room . His room was ‘‘adjacent’’ to an ALREADY built Mosque.** As the Mosque expanded along the years the room appears more and more to be part of the Mosque but it isnt . **

You cannot pray in the room , nor towards the tomb. Nor enter the room. The Tomb and the room are NOT part of the Mosque and the Mosque was not built on-top of it or because of the occasion of the tomb existence.

the room of the prophet is involved in the area of the mosque cause of the expansion of the mosque through the time though the place of this room isn’t part of the place of worship , can you imagine the situation ?
 
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