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Irenaeus07
Guest
Where did Jesus prohibit to address people in His name???
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dolphinlove
Guest
what religion are you?
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inJESUS
Guest
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Irenaeus07
Guest
Well, I am a Catechumen of the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
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Mystic_of_God
Guest
I chose all because, quite frankly, I don’t know.
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Angelos
Guest
First, it is not fair of you to contend that most of the Bible was written by Paul, who was an enemy of Jesus, because Paul never wrote a Gospel. More, it is not fair to contend that Paul remained an enemy of Jesus until his death. You first use the data in the New Testament to designate Paul as an enemy of Jesus, but then somehow disregard the narratives in the New Testament that emphasize Paul’s subsequent conversion and great zeal for the Gospel of Christ as one of Jesus’ apostles.
Second, your reasoning that Paul is a liar and deceiver because he came in the name of Jesus is fallacious, for coming in the name of Jesus will not make a person a false prophet or apostle. Paul cannot be regarded as a false apostle because he proclaimed Jesus’ Gospel and complied with Jesus’ other apostles and disciples. Mohammad, on the other hand, claimed to have brought a new revelation that was totally different from Jesus’ Gospel. It was Jesus’ Church that had endorsed Paul’ conversion in the first century, and it was the same Church of Jesus that discarded Mohammad as a false prophet trying to pervert the Gospel of Christ in the seventh century.
Finally, it is NOT totally wrong that Mohammad was a false prophet that came in the name of Jesus because Mohammad fabricated lies and ascribed them to Jesus in the Koran so as to convince Christians that they needed to believe in Mohammad as the final messenger! Actually, the Islamic assertion that Jesus overtly predicted Mohammad’s prophetic ministry (Surah 61:6) is compatible with Jesus’ prediction about false prophets coming in His name.
You Muslims have an uncanny strategy indeed! You always falsely accuse Christians of attaching unnecessary significance to Paul, but YOU yourselves turn Paul into a false god that could distort the truth despite the existence of Jesus’ apostles and true disciples trying to defend the truth. Likewise, you Muslims attach unnecessary significance to Paul by expecting to find Jesus’ prophecy in the New Testament with regard to Paul’s conversion! Nothing would have obliged Jesus to predict Paul’s conversion although that was a very important incident in the early history of Christ’s Church.
The same Jesus did not predict the election of Matthias as the twelfth apostle replacing Judas, which was very important for Jesus’ Church. Nevertheless, this does not make Matthias a false apostle. Jesus did not predict Stephen’s martyrdom, which was the first incident martyrdom in the early Church, but the lack of prediction did not make Stephen a false martyr.
Paul was not false because he really came in the name of Jesus to proclaim Jesus’ Gospel to Gentiles.
What about the Islamic view of blessing that marks all the former revelations as rubbish and asks people to believe ONLY in the Koran to be saved? What about the Islamic view of blessing that depicts every prophet as a Muslim sent with the same message condemned to corruption by men? Do you have your own message from God? When were you given that *personal *message? The Koran cannot be your own message because you were not personally given it by God, but inherited it from Mohammad’s folk when you believed in Islam!
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Can you please clarify what you mean from the above statement? I am trying very hard to read and understand your view here. The people before the gospel recieved it when Jesus was crucified died and went to preach to the captives in sheol to release them. The Gospel today has been here for 2000 years since Jesus taught in the streets and in the synagoges in the first century. It is the body of Christ to proclaim this Gospel in every age unchanged, I believe your last question under estimates the power of God and his mercy and working grace’s. My view of the divine blessing was never stated here, can you explain what you mean here? because I believe you may have me mixed up with another poster? If you want my view I would love to give it to you, if I knew what you are talking about?
**So is there any muslim or mormon who can answer, why their founders have recieved another gospel other than the one Jesus revealed 2000 years ago? **
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
This is reference to post 105, to review Galatians 1:6… in question why Muslims and Mormons have recieved another gospel centuries after the biblical gospels of Jesus? and why their founders accepted another gospel from their founders self acclaimed vision of an angel, when the bible clearly prophesized about another accursed gospel before Muslims and Mormon founders accepted another gospel. If this question to hard to answer for Muslims or Mormons, can you explain why?
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benedicter
Guest
My heads a mess too. Having blogged elsewhere I have become so confused it feels like a faith crisis.
Where my poor headached head sits at the moment - is if the Church is truly teaching that we worship the same God as so many insist including the Catechism and Popes, well everything looks like all roads lead up the mountain to the same place. Why does it matter if your Catholic, Muslim or whatever. If we worship the same God then doesn’t that mean the revelations were all from God - so if they contradict each other is God having a joke on us or what? There must be a simple answer to this, I don’t know who to believe. Even though I study theology no one in the scholastic area seems to know either. They either think we are all in the one spirit or we worship the same God and then go on to talk about the differences which seem ironical seeing you are worshippin the same God. The Catholic in the next pew who accepts half the Catechism is no better off than the Muslim then. Who on earth gets saved around here?
Fed up and hurting!
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
I suspect that the source for the Qu’ran is the same source for the Book of Mormon:
The very over-active imagination of a con-man.
I don’t think Satan was directly involved with it (i.e. disguising himself as an angel of light) rather I think the evidence shows that Muhammed just took Judaism and Christianity and then repackaged it for his own gain.
Much like how Joseph Smith took Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Kabbalah, Gnosticism, and Freemasonry and repackaged them for HIS own gain.
The very over-active imagination of a con-man.
I don’t think Satan was directly involved with it (i.e. disguising himself as an angel of light) rather I think the evidence shows that Muhammed just took Judaism and Christianity and then repackaged it for his own gain.
Much like how Joseph Smith took Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Kabbalah, Gnosticism, and Freemasonry and repackaged them for HIS own gain.
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swariffin
Guest
Yes. That what my vote is. We should not bring Satan pre-maturely.
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planten
Guest
**You are asking this question for sometime. Paar had partly replied. Did you notice. He said “Where is Gospel of Jesus which is mentioned in those verse?”
But we do not have any gospel of Jesus. It is useless to define the gospel of mathew or mark or luke as the gospel of Jesus. Then paul jumps into it and you people need that Muslims should accommodate him too. That is not possible without any clear words from jesus in his life time. The later manipulation advising the conversion of paul is doubtful.
I am only replying from Muslim point of view. I know nothing about Mormons.
Now please let it be known to you that all the preachins of paul were different to the teachings of Jesus. That was a different gospel from paul, Quran is not different and nothing against Jesus.
The OT does not teach that a man will be the god. None of the prophets taught such a bad lesson. Jesus himself never preached about himself being a God. I read the four gospels. I do not read anything there except that Jesus was a beloved of God. In some places he calls himslef son of God (= symbolic statement). He never preache dthat he was the God.
The teachings of Quran are exactly the same as the teachings of Moses and Jesus. It is not a different gospel. jesus had warned against the teachings of a different gospel. So the teachings of paul are the different ones.
Paul also used the name of jesus (maximum). He came in the name of Jesus. Jesus had warned against such people who will come in his name. So be careful of paul first. Muhammad came in the name of Allah. Not in the name of Jesus. Please do you see the problems. If any remain, you are welcome.**
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Angelos
Guest
We have already responded to that question: Jesus’ Gospel mentioned in Paul’s epistle to the Galatians is NOT different from the Gospel of Christ proclaimed by Himself and His apostles/disciples, and we have that Gospel in written form today. You Muslims always ignore Paul’s statement in his epistle: Paul warns people only against the possibility of the perversion of Jesus’ Gospel by false teachers, he by no means talks of the perversion as something already occured in his time! This is clear from his emphasised sentence denying the existence of a false Gospel! (Not that there is one!).You are not good at reading the text.
It is only your personal and faulty interpretation of the word “Gospel” that makes you deny the Gospels in the New testament as Jesus’ Gospel. However, the Islamic assertion that Jesus had a direct revelation named Injeel (the Gospel) similar to Koran has so far remained a hoax with no historic evidence. Actually, neither Jews nor Christians were familiar with the recently invented notion of direct revelation until Mohammad’s time. The data about Jesus and other biblical figures in the Koran are doubtful and contrary to history.
If you are honest and sincere about this assertion, please bring your evidence. We shall not believe that what Paul taught was different from what Jesus preached unless you prove that there were two different and contradictory Gospels in Paul’s time. You do not seriously expect us to believe your theories solely because you believe so, right? Where is Paul in the Koran?
The Koran is clearly a book derived from the deliberate perversion of Jesus’ Gospel. Jesus promised His disciples that He would be with them until the day of judgment: no need for a new revelation trying to correct Jesus’ supposedly corrupted message!
The Old Testament also teaches that God’s word is immutable and eternal. The Old Testament also teaches that God asked Abraham to offer Isaac as a holocaust. The Old Testament also teaches that Abraham never went to Mecca in his lifetime. The Old Testament teaches that Adam and Eve were banished from Eden, not from paradise. The Old Testament teaches that all of Noah’s sons survived the flood. The Old testament teaches that Moses was adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter. Do you endorse all these teachings in the Old Testament that are denied in your Koran?
However, we cannot see that the teachings of Moses and Jesus are the same as the teachings of the Koran! You base your theories on the Islamic books named Tawrat and Injeel, which have never existed in history. The message of the Koran goes against both the Old and New Testament. Thus, it is NOT of divine origin.
You somehow forget that all Jesus’ apostles and disciples were sent to preach in the name of Jesus.Paul was not the only apostle that preached in the name of Jesus! Mohammad claimed to have come in the name of Allah, but concocted stories about Jesus and falsely asserted that Jesus had predicted his prophetic mission. This means that Mohammad was a false prophet coming in the name of Jesus.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
cough
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Verisimilitude
Guest
If you read them what do you think of:
John 8:23
But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:46
Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?
John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Exactly? Please show me a verse in the OT or NT like:
And (remember) when Moosa (Moses) said to his people: “O my people! Verily, you have wronged yourselves by worshipping the calf. So turn in repentance to your Creator **and kill yourselves **(the innocent kill the wrongdoers among you), that will be better for you with your Lord.” Then He accepted your repentance. Truly, He is the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #54)
Kill yourselves???
And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #191)
When did disbelief become worse than killing others? Is that a new Commandment differnt than what was given to Moses of "Do not kill?
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ralphinal
Guest
Wonderful! THen the Koran teaches that you should forgive those who harm you and pray for your enemies and NEVER seek revenge! Excellent! The Koran teaches that there is no marriage in Heaven, which means that there is no sex! Magnificent! The Koran teaches that no greater love is there then a man lay down his life for his friends! Perfect! The Koran teaches that we are no longer slaves, but the adopted heirs to Christ and Children of God, able to call God “Abba,” or Daddy!!
I am so happy to learn what the Koran really teaches. Please provide the citations for all of these teachings from the Koran, so that I can spread the Good News…
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inJESUS
Guest
I have a simple question to Christians, Muslims, Jews or anyone that pretty summs up this thread…after you read these :
The LORD foils the plan of nations, frustrates the designs of peoples. But the plan of the LORD stands forever, wise designs through all generations. Ps 33
good indeed is the LORD, Whose love endures forever, whose faithfulness lasts through every age. ps100
**The works of your hands are right and true, reliable all your decrees,
Established forever and ever, to be observed with loyalty and care. **ps111
Praise the LORD, all you nations! Give glory, all you peoples!
The LORD’S love for us is strong; the LORD is faithful forever. Hallelujah! ps117
Your word, LORD, stands forever; it is firm as the heavens.
Through all generations your truth endures; fixed to stand firm like the earth. ps119-89
Though the grass withers and the flower wilts, the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40-8
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. Matthew 5:18
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Matthew 24-35
You have been born anew, not from perishable but from imperishable seed, through **the living and abiding word of God **1 Peter 1
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ.
And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
After you read these, who do you think is the one telling you that God’s words do NOT stand forever and that God is NOT faithful to His words?
The LORD foils the plan of nations, frustrates the designs of peoples. But the plan of the LORD stands forever, wise designs through all generations. Ps 33
good indeed is the LORD, Whose love endures forever, whose faithfulness lasts through every age. ps100
**The works of your hands are right and true, reliable all your decrees,
Established forever and ever, to be observed with loyalty and care. **ps111
Praise the LORD, all you nations! Give glory, all you peoples!
The LORD’S love for us is strong; the LORD is faithful forever. Hallelujah! ps117
Your word, LORD, stands forever; it is firm as the heavens.
Through all generations your truth endures; fixed to stand firm like the earth. ps119-89
Though the grass withers and the flower wilts, the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40-8
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. Matthew 5:18
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Matthew 24-35
You have been born anew, not from perishable but from imperishable seed, through **the living and abiding word of God **1 Peter 1
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ.
And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
After you read these, who do you think is the one telling you that God’s words do NOT stand forever and that God is NOT faithful to His words?
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Planten, never mind Paul for the moment; Do you believe in a different gospel of Jesus?
Your misunderstanding of who Jesus is and what is his gospel gives you the wrong interpretation of what Paul is teaching in his Epistle to the Galatians.
Paul preaches the gospel of Jesus who received this revelation from Jesus himself.
Mohammed recieved another (different) gospel from an unconfirmed source, which concludes as a matter of fact that Islam is another gospel from the Sacred Scriptures.
The sacred scriptures confirm that your founder and the one who revealed this other gospel are both accursed; according to Galatians 1:6…
I cannot accept your comment as truth; that Islam is the same gospel of Jesus?
If this is what you think Islam believes? please provide proof?
If you cant? then am I to conclude that Islam 400+ years Later after Christianity, introduces another gospel different from Jesus gospel. This includes Mormonism also, because they parallel your new founded religion centuries later after the Old Covenant and the Prophets were fulfilled in Jesus Christ himself, who proclaimed himself the IAm, and raised the dead, and resurrected from his crucifixion.
Praise be Lord Jesus Christ both now and forever.
Your misunderstanding of who Jesus is and what is his gospel gives you the wrong interpretation of what Paul is teaching in his Epistle to the Galatians.
Paul preaches the gospel of Jesus who received this revelation from Jesus himself.
Mohammed recieved another (different) gospel from an unconfirmed source, which concludes as a matter of fact that Islam is another gospel from the Sacred Scriptures.
The sacred scriptures confirm that your founder and the one who revealed this other gospel are both accursed; according to Galatians 1:6…
I cannot accept your comment as truth; that Islam is the same gospel of Jesus?
If this is what you think Islam believes? please provide proof?
If you cant? then am I to conclude that Islam 400+ years Later after Christianity, introduces another gospel different from Jesus gospel. This includes Mormonism also, because they parallel your new founded religion centuries later after the Old Covenant and the Prophets were fulfilled in Jesus Christ himself, who proclaimed himself the IAm, and raised the dead, and resurrected from his crucifixion.
Praise be Lord Jesus Christ both now and forever.
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