Mon (Nov 30) Mass readings (passages that support OSAS? [confusing passages...] / disciples leave all to follow Jesus)

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November 30, 2009

Feast of Saint Andrew, Apostle Lectionary: 684

Reading 1
Rom 10:9-18

Brothers and Sisters:
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.
For one believes with the heart and so is justified,
and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

The Scripture says,
No one who believes in him will be put to shame.
There is no distinction between Jew and Greek;
the same Lord is Lord of all,
enriching all who call upon him.
For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed?
And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone to preach?
And how can people preach unless they are sent?
As it is written,
How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news!
But not everyone has heeded the good news;
for Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed what was heard from us?
Thus faith comes from what is heard,
and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.
But I ask, did they not hear?
Certainly they did; for

Their voice has gone forth to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 19:8, 9, 10, 11


R. (10) The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. (John 6:63) Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
The law of the LORD is perfect,
refreshing the soul;

The decree of the LORD is trustworthy,
giving wisdom to the simple.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
The precepts of the LORD are right,
rejoicing the heart;
The command of the LORD is clear,
enlightening the eye.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever;

The ordinances of the LORD are true,
all of them just.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
They are more precious than gold,
than a heap of purest gold;
Sweeter also than syrup
or honey from the comb.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.

Gospel
Mt 4:18-22


As Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers,
Simon who is called Peter, and his brother Andrew,
casting a net into the sea; they were fishermen.
He said to them,
***“Come after me, and I will make you fishers of men.”***At once they left their nets and followed him.
He walked along from there and saw two other brothers,
James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John.
They were in a boat, with their father Zebedee, mending their nets.
He called them, and immediately they left their boat and their father and followed him.

*I think many OSAS’ers use the first psg to justify OSAS. but notice it says they WILL be saved, not that they ARE saved… i think it means that if someone believes enough to profess Jesus with his mouth, it is possible for him to be saved and he likely will be… Anyone know the RCC interpretation of this? I can understand OSAS’ers using the one line abuot confessing with the mouth that Jesus is Lord… because it says “is saved”… :confused:

Is this as confusing to you as it is to ME!!!

There are thousands of other scriptures that refute OSAS… so i don’t see how anyone can belive in it… but how to explain these psgs??? :confused:

i like the way the disciples left everything to follow Jesus… We are to do the same thing… but oh how most of us Americans do that kicking and screaming–if we do it at all… *
 
November 30, 2009

Feast of Saint Andrew, Apostle Lectionary: 684

Reading 1
Rom 10:9-18

Brothers and Sisters:
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.
For one believes with the heart and so is justified,
and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

The Scripture says,
No one who believes in him will be put to shame.
There is no distinction between Jew and Greek;
the same Lord is Lord of all,
enriching all who call upon him.
For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed?
And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone to preach?
And how can people preach unless they are sent?
As it is written,
How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news!
But not everyone has heeded the good news;
for Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed what was heard from us?
Thus faith comes from what is heard,
and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.
But I ask, did they not hear?
Certainly they did; for

Their voice has gone forth to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 19:8, 9, 10, 11


R. (10) The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. (John 6:63) Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
The law of the LORD is perfect,
refreshing the soul;

The decree of the LORD is trustworthy,
giving wisdom to the simple.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
The precepts of the LORD are right,
rejoicing the heart;
The command of the LORD is clear,
enlightening the eye.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever;

The ordinances of the LORD are true,
all of them just.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.
They are more precious than gold,
than a heap of purest gold;
Sweeter also than syrup
or honey from the comb.
R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.
or:
R. Your words, Lord, are Spirit and life.

Gospel
Mt 4:18-22


As Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers,
Simon who is called Peter, and his brother Andrew,
casting a net into the sea; they were fishermen.
He said to them,
***“Come after me, and I will make you fishers of men.”***At once they left their nets and followed him.
He walked along from there and saw two other brothers,
James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John.
They were in a boat, with their father Zebedee, mending their nets.
He called them, and immediately they left their boat and their father and followed him.

*I think many OSAS’ers use the first psg to justify OSAS. but notice it says they WILL be saved, not that they ARE saved… i think it means that if someone believes enough to profess Jesus with his mouth, it is possible for him to be saved and he likely will be… Anyone know the RCC interpretation of this? I can understand OSAS’ers using the one line abuot confessing with the mouth that Jesus is Lord… because it says “is saved”… :confused:

Is this as confusing to you as it is to ME!!!*

There are thousands of other scriptures that refute OSAS… so i don’t see how anyone can belive in it… but how to explain these psgs??? :confused:

i like the way the disciples left everything to follow Jesus… We are to do the same thing… but oh how most of us Americans do that kicking and screaming–if we do it at all…
Personally, I think Paul was rather confusing although he did say some beautiful things, for example, about love. I usually get a lot more out of the OT and Gospel readings than Paul’s letters.
 
I think many OSAS’ers use the first psg to justify OSAS. but notice it says they WILL be saved, not that they ARE saved… i think it means that if someone believes enough to profess Jesus with his mouth, it is possible for him to be saved and he likely will be… Anyone know the RCC interpretation of this? I can understand OSAS’ers using the one line abuot confessing with the mouth that Jesus is Lord… because it says “is saved”… :confused:
You are right, taking this verse out of context is a frequent method of supporting OSAS. the Catholic Church teaches that confessing with the mouth and believing with the heart are activities that continue every day of our lives. The day we fail to do this we are no longer “in Christ”.
Is this as confusing to you as it is to ME!!!
\

Apparently not. 😃
There are thousands of other scriptures that refute OSAS… so i don’t see how anyone can belive in it… but how to explain these psgs??? :confused:
When you look at them in the light of Church teaching, there are no contradictions.
i like the way the disciples left everything to follow Jesus… We are to do the same thing… but oh how most of us Americans do that kicking and screaming–if we do it at all…
I think, for this reason, America is going to come under persecution, where the lukewarm will be separated from the hot.
 
November 30, 2009

Feast of Saint Andrew, Apostle Lectionary: 684

Reading 1
Rom 10:9-18

Brothers and Sisters:
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.
For one believes with the heart and so is justified,
and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.
You are correct the operative words here are will be. And of course our belief must be fruitful.
 
November 30, 2009

Reading 1
Rom 10:9-18

Brothers and Sisters:
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.
For one believes with the heart and so is justified,
and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

  • I can understand OSAS’ers using the one line abuot confessing with the mouth that Jesus is Lord… because it says “is saved”… :confused:
Is this as confusing to you as it is to ME!!!*

Consider that at the time they truly profess and believe they “are” saved; it is contingent on their professing and believing. But if at some later time they no longer truly profess and believe, then they can no longer claim the verse.

And, how can anyone truly believe in their heart that Jesus is God; confess it verbally; but think they do not have to “do” what He commands (works); that “God” has no authority to tell them what to do? Or that it’s just fine to ignore His commands? I’m not sure then who they truly believe in, in their heart – but it is not the God of Scripture.
 
What does “belief” really mean? Does it mean" just believe "that Christ is our Savior or does it mean that we are to believe ALL that Christ told us. When Jesus was asked what must be done to be saved, he did not say “just believe in me”. He said to "keep the commandments.
Take a look at Hebrews 5:12-14 The early Christians didn’t just “believe”. They were instructed in all aspects of the one faith.

Hebrews 5:12 “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need some one to teach you again the first principles of God’s word.”

The next verse says that they were slowly taught the faith.

“You need milk, not solid food, for every one who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their faculties trained by practice to distinguish good from evil”

Then in Hebrews 6 we see how the early Christians were taught the more difficult doctrines of the true faith. Just “believing” in Christ is only a part of what is required.

“Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrines of Christ and go on to maturity,with instruction about ablutions, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.”
 
Personally, I think Paul was rather confusing although he did say some beautiful things, for example, about love. I usually get a lot more out of the OT and Gospel readings than Paul’s letters.
nice to know i am NOT alone… 🙂
 
I think, for this reason, America is going to come under persecution, where the lukewarm will be separated from the hot.
i didn’t mean to imply that i was ready to believe in OSAS because of those psgs… not hardly… I love the Church, have studied the RCC and history… am very happy w/ what i found, Inquisition (etc) not withstanidng. The Inquisition wasn’t anything like most anti-Catholics portray it … but you prob al ready know that…

America come u/ persecution? it already has… the US doesn’t have a good reputation in the world today… and it got worse when BHO got in there … :mad:
 
Consider that at the time they truly profess and believe they “are” saved; it is contingent on their professing and believing. But if at some later time they no longer truly profess and believe, then they can no longer claim the verse.

And, how can anyone truly believe in their heart that Jesus is God; confess it verbally; but think they do not have to “do” what He commands (works); that “God” has no authority to tell them what to do? Or that it’s just fine to ignore His commands? I’m not sure then who they truly believe in, in their heart – but it is not the God of Scripture.
thank you so much… I knew of those psgs that support this but… for some reason wasn’t thinking of them… Even without psgs to support it, i always beileved that to be true anyway… well, maybe not always but wahtever…

anyway… i particularly lke the last paragraph… 🙂
 
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