Money and the catholic church - Sacraments denied

[gracielynn]

has anybody else noticed that the church is getting more repped around money. I know so many people that could be part of a sacrement or couldn’t have theres because they were no longer considerd members. when asked why, they responded with " you haven’t put money in the envelope in a while. how do we know your even coming to church if you don’t put money in the envelope?" this is truly messed up and has made alot of my friends and family turn away from the church,not the religion.

 

[TOP]

That not how it is in our church/ parish. I don’t put money in an envelope. I had to put money literally in the Priest hand after my mom’s funeral, he would not take it. We have never been denied any of the sacrements. Actually the Priest offered to help pay for our gas to get to church when we were broke. Tim

 

[water]

has anybody else noticed that the church is getting more repped around money. I know so many people that could be part of a sacrement or couldn’t have theres because they were no longer considerd members. when asked why, they responded with " you haven’t put money in the envelope in a while. how do we know your even coming to church if you don’t put money in the envelope?" this is truly messed up and has made alot of my friends and family turn away from the church,not the religion.

This is not about the “money”, but about the “envelop”. So, the post could changed to “Envelop and the Church”.

At my church, the way they keep track of people coming to the church is by the envelop being sent to people. The envelops have people’s address printed on. At any church, people come and go, and by using the envelop, they help the church keep track of its members.

No church will deny any sacraments. It might be because of the timing when a person came to ask and it was late. I knew my parish’s pastor is very strict about being on time.

As a member of any church, it is our responsible to help the Church not only about the money contribution, but also let them know that you are still there. For the church to grow, statistics plays an important part in it. So, your friends should use the envelop

 

[wcknight]

Actually no parishes in our area (the 6 parishes in Bethesda) has such a policy. There is no requirement to use the envelopes, and as far as I know no denial of the sacrament for people who don’t.

 

[undeserving]

Not in my church and I live in India.

 

[InLight247]

has anybody else noticed that the church is getting more repped around money. I know so many people that could be part of a sacrement or couldn’t have theres because they were no longer considerd members. when asked why, they responded with " you haven’t put money in the envelope in a while. how do we know your even coming to church if you don’t put money in the envelope?" this is truly messed up and has made alot of my friends and family turn away from the church,not the religion.

This must be either a mis-conception or an excuse of not going to church.

No Catholic parish will deny sacraments from people who don’t put donation in the envelop. period.

 

[water]

Actually no parishes in our area (the 6 parishes in Bethesda) has such a policy. There is no requirement to use the envelopes, and as far as I know no denial of the sacrament for people who don’t.

Right, it is not an requirement. At my parish, if people don’t use the envelop then they won’t get them in the mail.

 

[Dorothy]

I’m happy to use the envelope. I give what I can, knowing that the parish has huge bills to take care of, and God expects me to do my part.

 

[manualman]

Depends. Nobody is ever going to deny you confession or communion or last rites because you haven’t given lately.

But the church IS starting to realize that the number of annulments granted is a serious scandal. The trouble is that many of these annulments ARE warranted since the couple has no clue about their faith and really is unable to enter into a sacramental union. Same goes for baptism. The church is starting to think that if parents aren’t demonstrating a serious commitment to raising kids in the faith, then it is not doing the baby any good to be baptized.

Attendence might be one way that priests could be beginning to assess the level of committment of the person requesting marriage or baptism for a kid. I betcha that if they had a solid record of putting a quarter in the envelope every week no further questions would be asked. That’s not focusing on money, it’s about ending cultural catholicism and getting back to a real community of believers.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

has anybody else noticed that the church is getting more repped around money. I know so many people that could be part of a sacrement or couldn’t have theres because they were no longer considerd members. when asked why, they responded with " you haven’t put money in the envelope in a while. how do we know your even coming to church if you don’t put money in the envelope?" this is truly messed up and has made alot of my friends and family turn away from the church,not the religion.

Not buyin’ it…even if I knew what “repped” was, or what it meant to “be part of a sacrement” or “couldn’t have theres.” This has got to be about Baptism, where the parish has an obligation to determine if there’s a founded hope the child will be raised in the Faith. One way - and only one way - to do that is to use Mass attendance as a gauge, with parish support as a measure of that. Some parishes may have stricter policies on that than others; many (most?) parishes use infant Baptism as a teaching and welcoming moment to draw a family back into more active participation, and don’t “check the books” at all.

Since I’m unaware of any financial checks at Eucharist or Reconciliation (hard to hold the ledger and a ciborium at the same time!), I can only add that all churches, of whatever denomination, routinely have a facilities usage fee for weddings and funerals, which is NOT the same as charging for the sacrament, which would be the sin of simony. These charges are frequently waived, in my experience, in case of financial need.

 

[the_phoenix]

While I am very very happy with my new parish, something that one of the priests said during a sermon has caused me a little concern. The quote is, “The computer knows who is attending Mass.” Which I assume translates to, envelopes are kept track of by computer.

Now on those Sundays when I attend Mass at my parish, sometimes I use the envelope and sometimes not. Sometimes you prefer to write one check to cover two weeks instead of a check every single week.

Then there are other Sundays, when I attend Mass at a different parish. Sometimes I attend the Latin Mass parish in downtown Cleveland. Other times I attend Mass in New York State when I travel home for the holidays. Other times I attend Mass in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee, or the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, or wherever my current vacation spot happens to be … and I do oodles of travelling.

However, “the computer” at my parish does not know when I attend Mass somewhere else! Nor does “the computer” know how much money I donate at whatever parish I happen to be visiting on any given Sunday.

The remark about the computer was made in relation to a man wanting to enroll a child in the parochial school only to be told that no, he could not enroll his child until he showed he was serious about practicing his Faith by proving he was attending Mass regularly for an entire year.

Being a single person in a huge parish with no relatives living anywhere nearby, I sometimes worry about whether I’ll end up lost and passed by someday in a hospital simply because it may not appear to the casual observer that I actually do attend Mass regularly. I am even considering bringing up this topic in Confession.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

has anybody else noticed that the church is getting more repped around money. I know so many people that could be part of a sacrement or couldn’t have theres because they were no longer considerd members. when asked why, they responded with " you haven’t put money in the envelope in a while. how do we know your even coming to church if you don’t put money in the envelope?" this is truly messed up and has made alot of my friends and family turn away from the church,not the religion.

If you are active in the ministries of the parish there is no need for you to use envelopes for your Sunday offering, cash in the basket is enough. The pastor should know you well if you sing in the choir, carry the Eucharist to the homebound, clean the sanctuary, mowing the grass, volunteer in the nursery, teach Faith Formation, are a Sponsor in RCIA, etc.

Envelopes are there for the 90% who are NOT involved in the parish programs and ministries.

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear Br. Rich –

A small question if I may. What if you volunteer for Eucharistic Adoration, you are in a huge parish large enough to be its own city, and you have never even spoken in person to your team of adorers because you’re new and because everyone on the team maintains respectful silence in the chapel, then leaves quietly when the next person comes in, and the priests have no idea you’re volunteering or quite likely who you are when they shake your hand after Mass? A team coordinator spoke to me on the phone once … that sure doesn’t make me visible in the parish, but that’s what I feel I’ve been called to do.

I suppose in my case I had just better pray to St. Joseph for the grace of a happy death.

~~ the phoenix

 

[gracielynn]

This is not about the “money”, but about the “envelop”. So, the post could changed to “Envelop and the Church”.

At my church, the way they keep track of people coming to the church is by the envelop being sent to people. The envelops have people’s address printed on. At any church, people come and go, and by using the envelop, they help the church keep track of its members.

No church will deny any sacraments. It might be because of the timing when a person came to ask and it was late. I knew my parish’s pastor is very strict about being on time.

As a member of any church, it is our responsible to help the Church not only about the money contribution, but also let them know that you are still there. For the church to grow, statistics plays an important part in it. So, your friends should use the envelop

I myself tryed to get my friens to have her child baptisd in the church we are both completly broke can barley put food on the table. she wanted me to be the god mom but because we can’t give money they would not allow us to do. I came too them while she was still pregnant and asked them how we go about doing it and they said become members. this is where i told them i had been a member since i was a child and that i had just missed a few sundays because some times i have to work and they told me that they had no i dea i was a member and that the only way to become one would be to fill out the form and put money in the envelopes every sunday. they said we had to do this for 3 months staright. if your broke how do you do this. i can barley pay for the gas to get there

 

[gracielynn]

While I am very very happy with my new parish, something that one of the priests said during a sermon has caused me a little concern. The quote is, “The computer knows who is attending Mass.” Which I assume translates to, envelopes are kept track of by computer.

Now on those Sundays when I attend Mass at my parish, sometimes I use the envelope and sometimes not. Sometimes you prefer to write one check to cover two weeks instead of a check every single week.

Then there are other Sundays, when I attend Mass at a different parish. Sometimes I attend the Latin Mass parish in downtown Cleveland. Other times I attend Mass in New York State when I travel home for the holidays. Other times I attend Mass in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee, or the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, or wherever my current vacation spot happens to be … and I do oodles of travelling.

However, “the computer” at my parish does not know when I attend Mass somewhere else! Nor does “the computer” know how much money I donate at whatever parish I happen to be visiting on any given Sunday.

The remark about the computer was made in relation to a man wanting to enroll a child in the parochial school only to be told that no, he could not enroll his child until he showed he was serious about practicing his Faith by proving he was attending Mass regularly for an entire year.

Being a single person in a huge parish with no relatives living anywhere nearby, I sometimes worry about whether I’ll end up lost and passed by someday in a hospital simply because it may not appear to the casual observer that I actually do attend Mass regularly. I am even considering bringing up this topic in Confession.

~~ the phoenix

You should maybe if we all mention it when stuff like this happens it would stop. I currently can’t have my soon to be god son baptised because supposedly i’m not a member because the envelope didn’t tell my priest i was. he even married my sister and i was in the wedding but i’m not a member. they said i needed to put money in the envolopes for 3 months straight befor i would be considered a member. man whose in charge here? I can’t make jesus or god tell them

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear gracielynn,

Thank you for your reply, it’s much appreciated.

As for your own situation, would you be able to speak to your priest and let him know that you’re willing to use the envelopes, but are just not financially able to give?

Several years back when I was unemployed, I attended a women’s retreat. We were asked to pay $35 if we could afford it, or else pay whatever we could afford, or else pay nothing if we were completely unable to give. Well, that year, I could not give any money …

… And at that retreat, I walked over to the pastor in a quiet moment and explained to him that I was unemployed and that was the reason I was not putting money in the collection on Sundays. He was quite understanding.

This pastor was an excellent priest who has since retired and then died. His loss is a big one, he had a tremendous heart.

Anyways, I’ll pray for you and hope things work out smoothly!

~~ the phoenix

 

[CRW]

has anybody else noticed that the church is getting more repped around money. I know so many people that could be part of a sacrement or couldn’t have theres because they were no longer considerd members. when asked why, they responded with " you haven’t put money in the envelope in a while. how do we know your even coming to church if you don’t put money in the envelope?" this is truly messed up and has made alot of my friends and family turn away from the church,not the religion.

Our parish, via the registration process, provides envelopes. Many fail to register, but still considered members of the Church. They are not denied CCD for their children or the sacraments. Our priests request registration but does not require it.

Once a year, we are mailed a pledge card, requesting that we specify our project contribution/gift either weekly, monthly, quarterly of annually. This is done to allow the Church to make a budget on forecasts donations.

The only exception to this rule is when the annual CSA, Catholic Sharing Appeal, is sponsored by the bishop. This program differs from the Church and our parish is expected to contribute a certain amount based on the annual budget or receipt of funds. If this amount is not met by contributions, our church is required to make up the difference. The money is spent in running programs at the dioceses level.

 

[kleary]

has anybody else noticed that the church is getting more repped around money. I know so many people that could be part of a sacrement or couldn’t have theres because they were no longer considerd members. when asked why, they responded with " you haven’t put money in the envelope in a while. how do we know your even coming to church if you don’t put money in the envelope?" this is truly messed up and has made alot of my friends and family turn away from the church,not the religion.

YOU sound like my brother’s civilly married “wife”. Her family said they never had her baptized because the Sacrament was denied to her because they didn’t “give enough money” in the collections!

That is a bunch of hogwash and if you should ever experience that sort of problem complain to the Diocese. You DO however need to be a “registered parishioner” somewhere in some Catholic church in order to receive the Sacraments of First Holy Communion, Confirmation, Matrimony.

Also, if you are not going to church every Sunday and holy day of obligation I would defintely see why a pastor would be apprehensive, most especially if it pertains to being a sponsor for Baptism or Confirmation.

Then again, the normal parishes have become so lax these days they even let my brother, who is married via justice of the peace be a sponsor for baptism TWICE knowing full well he is married outside the Church.

Ken

 

[cmom]

You can put envelopes in the collection plate without any money in them. That way the church knows you are attending. Tell the priest of your circumstances and there should be no problem. Many people cannot give money but sing in the choir, help at Sunday school etc.

 

[Cristiano]

If you are active in the ministries of the parish there is no need for you to use envelopes for your Sunday offering, cash in the basket is enough. The pastor should know you well if you sing in the choir, carry the Eucharist to the homebound, clean the sanctuary, mowing the grass, volunteer in the nursery, teach Faith Formation, are a Sponsor in RCIA, etc.

Envelopes are there for the 90% who are NOT involved in the parish programs and ministries.

That is not completely true. By using the envelopes, the Parish keeps track of your donations. At the end of the year they send you back a receipt for a tax deduction (USA). If everybody were to give the tithe (10% of the gross) I bet that everybody would use the envelopes to get the tax money back.