Money vs Jesus

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PeterJohn

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Ive been having a general debate recently, me vs everyone I talk to about this.
Does God want us to be making lots of money, or would he prefer us to just get by? Here is what I use to make the case that Jesus wants us to just get by.
Matt. 19:24
Matt. 13:44
Luke 16:14
Luke 18:22
Matt. 6:19
Luke 12:33
Proverbs 13:7
Luke 11:41
Matt 6:24
Please feel free to add to my argument or refute it.
If you own a car you happen to be in the top 20% richest people on the planet.
 
I honestly don’t think it can be argued that Jesus wished for the rich to share their money. Nor do I think it can be disputed that he states that being rich is a heavy spiritual burden (matt 19:24). Thus, I support you in this.

God says he will meet out needs Philippians 4:19. One could argue that this means by supplying us with money, but as pointed above, I don’t see why he would give us a spiritual burden from such.
 
We have had a number of discussions on CAF about this and really there does not seem to be a clear cut answer as to “how much is enough”…

Jesus tells us we cannot serve two masters. (Mt 6:24), and where ones treasure is, so is their heart. (Mt 6:21)
We also know that greed is one of the seven deadly sins.
Jesus tells us that all of the Law and all of the prophets are based on the Law of Love. (Mt 22:36-40)
St Paul drives this point home in his beautiful ode to Love in 1 Cor 13:1-13

So the issue is not really one of “how much money” but rather where one’s heart lies.
If one has love in their heart then more money will simply mean more opportunity to help their fellow man either by charitable giving, or by investment and employment. The money is treated as a gift from God - a commodity for the building up of the kingdom. It is a tool - nothing more.

As to “just getting by”, I’m not too crazy about that choice of term because it is too non-specific and not really helpful in a theological sense.
What constitutes “just getting by” for one is “sufficient for my needs” to another. I’ve known people who made little but got along just fine, while others, making three times as much were constantly short of funds and, by their own measure, “just getting by”.
But I’ve seen just the opposite as well.
The outlooks of the individuals basically had nothing to do with how much they made. It had more to do with the quality of their character.

So - does God want us making lots of money…Sure - but ONLY if we are mature enough to be able to handle it properly. That is, placing God above all and loving our neighbor as ourselves - and seeking first the kingdom and not treasure that thieves can steal and moths can eat. Do that, and whatever money God places in your hands will be put to good use.

Peace
James
 
I believe it is our duty to use our intelligence and talents in the service of God, always seeking Him. You know, “seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all the rest will be added unto you.” We fulfill our obligations to the best of our ability, and trust God in the outcomes.

Personally, I like what Blessed Teresa used to always say: “If God puts you in a castle, serve Him from the castle. If he puts you on the streets, serve Him from the streets. We do not put ourselves in a castle or on the streets. We serve Him from wherever He places us.”

Basically, we should not seek after riches, nor lay about doing nothing. All our actions and strivings should be for God’s service, not for our own gain.

Gertie
 
Theres nothing wrong with being rich but you must remain detached from the money - it should not be whats important.
 
PeterGStanley said:
Theres nothing wrong with being rich but you must remain detached from the money - it should not be whats important.
Click to expand...
But here is the thing…
If the money is not important (to you), if you remain “detached from the money”…are you likely to retain it??

If we are properly oriented to what is truly important; if we are properly focused on God, through love of neighbor, then would we not willingly dispose of the money doing the work of God? Would we not, in fact, be driven to use that money for the work of God rather than retain it or spending it on ourselves for things we do not need??

Peace
James
 
PeterGStanley said:
There’s nothing wrong with being rich but you must remain detached from the money - it should not be whats important.
Click to expand...
Just a note relating to the term “rich”. How does one quantify this? We tend to use such imprecise terms like “rich”, “wealthy”, “well off” and such but in truth, it seems to me that we should prefer words like, happy, joyful and holy.

When people begin talking about wealth and how much is too much, the most common position will be that, “I’m not too rich”, but the guy who has more than me IS too rich.🤷

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
We have had a number of discussions on CAF about this and really there does not seem to be a clear cut answer as to “how much is enough”…

Jesus tells us we cannot serve two masters. (Mt 6:24), and where ones treasure is, so is their heart. (Mt 6:21)
We also know that greed is one of the seven deadly sins.
Jesus tells us that all of the Law and all of the prophets are based on the Law of Love. (Mt 22:36-40)
St Paul drives this point home in his beautiful ode to Love in 1 Cor 13:1-13

So the issue is not really one of “how much money” but rather where one’s heart lies.
If one has love in their heart then more money will simply mean more opportunity to help their fellow man either by charitable giving, or by investment and employment. The money is treated as a gift from God - a commodity for the building up of the kingdom. It is a tool - nothing more.

As to “just getting by”, I’m not too crazy about that choice of term because it is too non-specific and not really helpful in a theological sense.
What constitutes “just getting by” for one is “sufficient for my needs” to another. I’ve known people who made little but got along just fine, while others, making three times as much were constantly short of funds and, by their own measure, “just getting by”.
But I’ve seen just the opposite as well.
The outlooks of the individuals basically had nothing to do with how much they made. It had more to do with the quality of their character.

So - does God want us making lots of money…Sure - but ONLY if we are mature enough to be able to handle it properly. That is, placing God above all and loving our neighbor as ourselves - and seeking first the kingdom and not treasure that thieves can steal and moths can eat. Do that, and whatever money God places in your hands will be put to good use.

Peace
James
Click to expand...
Matt 6:24 says a lot.
If you worked to become a rich man there’s a good chance you neglected doing Gods work. If you spend 1 hrs at church, and 7 hrs praying a week(1 hrs per day) and 56 sleeping and you spent 40-50 hrs working when you may only need to work a quarter of that time to shelter, clothe and feed yourself. So if you don’t give away the rest of your money to good will and you save it/spend it on IPads/iPhone/internets/HDTV/surround sound/new car/comfy bed/nice house with spare bedrooms/swimming pool/fancy vacations/retirement plan/health insurance/jewlery. I could list 1000 more things most Americans/Europeans have. You may worship God but are we slaves to money? Do we? This troubles my heart about myself and my wife and we live in a basement apparat ment that’s not very nice and we have 2 vehicles and they are both over 200k miles, my wife is a stay at home mom and we have a 1 yo son Luke. And we’re expecting a daughter in about 4 weeks!!! 🙂 I am a carpenter, and I make about 35k a year. I will be the first to admit that I have too much. We Americans are rich compared to the majority of the world. Who of you throw away the crusts of the loaves of bread you buy?
 
As a participant in American society I believe I sin by participation. Fr groechel says this is the babylon of our day. Blessed pope John Paul ii (I think he’s blessed now?) used to refuse to sleep on his bed in the Vatican because it was a luxurious bed. He used to sleep on the cold ground. I work 40 hrs a week and almost don’t need to. I do not have a four wheeler or a retirement plan. We don’t have medical insurance or new vehicles. But I believe we have ammased treasures on earth. May God give me the grace to be more prudent.
 
PeterJohn,
I sense in your posts a lot of confusion and concern. It is obvious that these matters trouble you greatly.
The thing to remember is that you need to make sure you have your priorities straight. God first, those whom God has given over to your care second and then the rest…
God has given you a beautiful spouse and two children. In God’s plan, these must be your first “temporal” concern. By that I mean that you need to consider their welfare first. They are entrusted to you by God.
Certainly there is much that can be done without…many things that the world thinks of as necessities but are, in fact, luxuries. On the other hand there are things that can be necessities for a while - a computer for example will likely become more important as your children grow and start attending school. Even more so if you were to choose homeschooling.
A retirement plan, or life insurance, may seem like not trusting God, but if that money is properly invested, it becomes a source of employment for others and not “hoarding” for yourself. And if something DID happen to you, then you have provided something loving for your family - those entrusted to your care by God.

I agree that many of us, myself included, waste a lot of money on frivolous things. We would all benefit from living simpler, less cluttered lives with fewer “possessions” - especially the kind that tend to “possess us”.
My parents were both children of the great depression and neither of them were from “monied” backgrounds. My Dad, with his 8th grade education, worked in factories all his life. Growing up, we had a garden and my folks would can the produce. We wore hand me downs, never had “name brand” shoes etc… But what we DID have were parents who were firm but loving and strong in their faith. Parents who taught us to take care of things. Parents who raised 5 strong people. Would things have been different if there had been more money??? Who knows…But I do know that God always gave us “Our daily Bread”.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Just a note relating to the term “rich”. How does one quantify this? We tend to use such imprecise terms like “rich”, “wealthy”, “well off” and such but in truth, it seems to me that we should prefer words like, happy, joyful and holy.

When people begin talking about wealth and how much is too much, the most common position will be that, “I’m not too rich”, but the guy who has more than me IS too rich.🤷

Peace
James
Click to expand...
Read into the word rich what ever you want.I’ll call it materialism.
Jesus was clear about this - you cannot serve both.
 
PeterJohn said:
Ive been having a general debate recently, me vs everyone I talk to about this.
Does God want us to be making lots of money, or would he prefer us to just get by? Here is what I use to make the case that Jesus wants us to just get by.
Matt. 19:24
Matt. 13:44
Luke 16:14
Luke 18:22
Matt. 6:19
Luke 12:33
Proverbs 13:7
Luke 11:41
Matt 6:24
Please feel free to add to my argument or refute it.
If you own a car you happen to be in the top 20% richest people on the planet.
Click to expand...
Hello Peter John,

My take on it is this. All things are to be done for the glory of God and love of our neighbor. If a person finds their wealth to be or would be an occasion of sin then they are not called to be wealthy. What I think Christ was showing us was that poverty has its own richness because it forces us to see our dependency on God. When people are wealthy they tend to pat themselves on the back as if they are the ones who made themselves rich or that they are capable of living a life independent from God. Being rich is a huge cross and anyone praying for wealth should at the same time pray for a spirit of detachment. Regardless everyone should pray to know God’s will and to do it, even if it’s not what we planned or envisioned what we would do with our life. .

From what I can see God isn’t calling money evil, but the love of money as being the root of evil. The problem comes when we take the love we should have for eternal things and give it to transitory things.
 
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