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pio_s

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Hey, im not sure where to put this but i can not seem to get any replies in the Water Cooler…

How exactly does the Church use and manage its money? I know uses its money allother the world, but how exactly does it filter through the crurch and does the church invest? Is there anywhere one can see financial records of the church as a whole?

Also, do you think the church is too lavish and spends money on churches and cathedrals too often, when there are milions of starving individuals in the world. This is the sum of an argument my friend proposed to me, and truthfully i see some truthin it. what do you all say?
 
The Church is not like a corporation. For example, I highly doubt anyone in Rome has a clue as to the finances of my parish. We print our donations in the weekly bulletin and anyone is welcomed to the Pastoral Council meetings when they discuss the budget.

As to the Church spending too much money on itself; whom would you suggest be in charge of the accounting? Also, name one single organization in the world that spends more money, extends more effort, and even has more of its blood spilled for the sake of the poor than the Catholic Church?

Many of the Cathedrals you see in Europe and other parts of the world were built by donations from wealthy families, and many were built for the glory of God. Many priests are from various religious orders and have taken vows of poverty, and I don’t see priests that are paid raking in the dough.

It is simply another anti-Catholic sentiment to say the Church is a money grabbing organization. Let’s say we were to liquidate the Church of all its possessions. Who would you posit would be a better caretaker for the priceless works of art that are available for viewing, in many cases for free? Shall we sell the Pieta on e-Bay?
 
pio_s said:
Also, do you think the church is too lavish and spends money on churches and cathedrals too often, when there are millions of starving individuals in the world. This is the sum of an argument my friend proposed to me, and truthfully i see some truth in it. what do you all say?
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Funny you should say this because on the drive home from buying my birthday gift from my parents (a miraculous medal) we got stuck in traffic and decided to listen to an apologetics CD. If my Dad was around im sure he could sum it up better but he is sick so here goes

My understanding based on this CD is that the church, the Vatican, and even the pope are actually quite poor. Most of the nice things they own are donations such as the beautiful artwork they have in there churches. What if you were to slave away to save all the money you could make to buy your parents a Beautiful anniversary present. Then when you give it to them they say its wonderful then they go around and find its market value and sell it to the highest bidder the next day? Its the same with the church they have been gifted with many forms of art from many famous artists but the art belongs to the world and the church is only the caretaker of it all and it wouldnt be right for them to sell it.

I will sum this up by saying the CD said much more and I could say more if i didn’t already think i was rambling.
 
Another question:
Who decides how individual churches spend money?

In my neighborhood (which is where my “catholic” friend points and says this is too extravagent) we have large churches, reception halls, and classrooms. My friends church is building a cathedral with relics of St. Padre Pio, and i guess he feels as if his church is somewhat only concerned with making more money and creating an extravagant church even with a watchtower.
 
pio_s said:
Another question:
Who decides how individual churches spend money?

In my neighborhood (which is where my “catholic” friend points and says this is too extravagent) we have large churches, reception halls, and classrooms. My friends church is building a cathedral with relics of St. Padre Pio, and i guess he feels as if his church is somewhat only concerned with making more money and creating an extravagant church even with a watchtower.
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That is pretty much left up to the Pastoral Council or individual pastor of the church. I suppose if they were getting fund from the Diocese the Bishop might have some (name removed by moderator)ut, but nearly all churches handle their own finances on an individual basis.
 
StCsDavid said:
That is pretty much left up to the Pastoral Council or individual pastor of the church. I suppose if they were getting fund from the Diocese the Bishop might have some (name removed by moderator)ut, but nearly all churches handle their own finances on an individual basis.
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Expenditures over some amount a few thousand dollars I think] must be approved by the diocese. In our diocese at least, all large contracts are awarded, written and signed by the diocese.

However, from my days with Civil Service, if the limit is $2000, one can accomplish a lot with a number of $1999 contracts.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Expenditures over some amount a few thousand dollars I think] must be approved by the diocese. In our diocese at least, all large contracts are awarded, written and signed by the diocese.

However, from my days with Civil Service, if the limit is $2000, one can accomplish a lot with a number of $1999 contracts.
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You may very well be right. I think it also depends upon whether the diocese has any ownership over any of the assets of the church. In most diocese, churchs are pretty independently owned and operated from a business perspective. I had to laugh about your Civil Service example as I’ve been down that path myself working for a large utility.
 
You know how you hear that the catholic church has given more money to fighting aids than any other organization, but where does this money come from, if all the money we gives stays in the parishes?

Does anyone know where i can find the answer to this question and the others relatively easily? I really want to know how it all works.
 
pio_s said:
You know how you hear that the catholic church has given more money to fighting aids than any other organization, but where does this money come from, if all the money we gives stays in the parishes?

Does anyone know where i can find the answer to this question and the others relatively easily? I really want to know how it all works.
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The money comes from the parishioners who give in the basket each Sunday. Sometimes there are second collections for specific causes.

All the money does not necessarily stay - much of it is donated at our parish. We support a poor inner city school, have a program that offers rent money, sent donations to overseas missions, support a local food shelf, etc. Our parish provides a financial statement yearly so anyone can see what has been given, what has been paid in salaries, and what has been donated.

Go to your local parish and ask for a financial statement.
 
pio_s said:
You know how you hear that the catholic church has given more money to fighting aids than any other organization, but where does this money come from, if all the money we gives stays in the parishes?

Does anyone know where i can find the answer to this question and the others relatively easily? I really want to know how it all works.
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You can ask any not for profit organization to send a financial report. I get one each year from two of the bigger church related agancies that I donate too. CNEWA and CRS. They both have websites. I believe they are entirely funded by individual donors and not the Vatican. It is possible the Peter’s Pence Collection , in part , goes to CNEWA but I don’t know for sure.
If you go to the USCCB site you can find a list of all the intended collections for the year and what they are for. I went to the Peter’s Pence section but the PDF file gave my computer a fit.

usccb.org/finance/schedule.shtml

You may be able to get a list from your Diocese about their collections also. I noticed we have a few more than were on the US list so I assume they are diocese related. We have one for the Long Island Catholic for instance which is the diocesan newspaper.
 
I don’t personally have a problem with spending money on cathedrals etc to glorify and honor God.These things help to edify and feed a person’s faith. Food and clothes serve another way. If you only built expensive cathedrals and such and ignored the poor that would be one thing. There is no reason we can’t do both. God took a lot of trouble to instruct the people in the old testament how to build the ark and make linens etc . He clearly had no problem spending the wealth on those things while still expecting the widows and poor to be taken care of.
 
Seatuck said:
You can ask any not for profit organization to send a financial report. I get one each year from two of the bigger church related agancies that I donate too. CNEWA and CRS. They both have websites. I believe they are entirely funded by individual donors and not the Vatican. It is possible the Peter’s Pence Collection , in part , goes to CNEWA but I don’t know for sure.
If you go to the USCCB site you can find a list of all the intended collections for the year and what they are for. I went to the Peter’s Pence section but the PDF file gave my computer a fit.

usccb.org/finance/schedule.shtml

You may be able to get a list from your Diocese about their collections also. I noticed we have a few more than were on the US list so I assume they are diocese related. We have one for the Long Island Catholic for instance which is the diocesan newspaper.
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I see that CRS one of the organizations I privately donate to is also funded on a national level by a collection of the USCCB .I remember now I skip that one sometimes because I do it privately.

This is one of the reasons I like the envelopes. You know what the collection is for.Of course it is a matter of trust that the money is going where they say it is going.
 
pio_s said:
You know how you hear that the catholic church has given more money to fighting aids than any other organization, but where does this money come from, if all the money we gives stays in the parishes?

Does anyone know where i can find the answer to this question and the others relatively easily? I really want to know how it all works.
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you can find the answers easily by asking your parish and diocese for their annual finanical report. you can also request a financial report from any non-profit that solicits donations.

The money that supports the Catholic church comes from two sources, donations from the people in the pews (and donations made through estate planning such as wills, bequests, charitable annuities etc). The other source besides donations is capital gains, interest on investments and money in the bank, appreciating assets and sale of assets including buildings: churches, schools, hospitals, administrative buildings, colleges etc., and land, and prudent investments in securities etc.

The money collected in the parish each Sunday includes a tithe to the bishop to support the diocese. If there is a building fund, all donations for that must be in the separate account and used only for that purpose. Special collections for special causes must be sent to the diocese for that purpose, for instance we just had the Peter’s Pence collection, and that money goes directly to the Pope to be dispensed to charitable needs chosen by him. Most parishes have a collection regularly for St. Vincent de Paul or whatever parish organization sees to immediate material needs of anyone residing in the parish boundaries, Catholic or not: food, clothing, emergency shelter, medicines, utilities etc.

There is also a collection yearly for Catholic Charities, Bishop’s campaign or other entity that handles charity and social services on the diocesan level.

Various Catholic religious orders, schools, hospitals, missions etc. also receive donations from the faithful to help fund their work. Almost all, like most non-profits, operate at a loss.

The bishop is responsible for the administration including financial accounting of all affairs of his diocese, and every diocese has proper accounting and financial controls in place, in fact this is a requirement of canon law as well as of civil law.

I don’t know what you are getting at by your series of questions on this topic, but if you are sincere you can easily find these answers on the net, so what is your agenda?
 
I have tried to find the answers you have supplied, however have not been able to. I simply would like to understand the flow of the money through the church. Thank you very much for your informative reply, i just have a few more questions that i do not completley follow.

I dont believe all the sundays in the year are accounted for in the USCCB financial schedule, i guess some other sundays are filled in with local charities (which i can find out by asking for a financial report from my diocese). Is this correct? Do most all other collections go to operating costs?

Is there a standard percintage of the tithe to the bishop to support the diocese, and what stays with the church?

Also, i assume all of the collections on the USCCB financial schedule are mandatory, is this correct?

You, puzzleannie, seem very informed and im not sure if you will know this but i’ll throw it out there. What are the churches investments exactly, is there a way to find this out (would it be on the financial reports i am going to look more into).

And finally, if, as in the case with my friend that a parishioner believed something was a little to extravagant who would you respectively bring it up to.
 
You start with your Priest at your parish if you have an objection to a purchase or whatever .He can put you in touch with whatever group oversees that kind of thing unless it is just him if the parish is very small.We have a Parish Council who meets and discusses this thing.

The church is not a democracy. There will always be times when you disagree with something your Priest or council chooses to spend money on. When we were building a new church we had ample opportunity to express our opinions. Then decisions had to be made. Not everyone agreed with them all. Sometimes you just have to get over it.

Start at the bottom and work your way up with the financial reports. Ask your Parish and petition your diocese. As I’ve said I’ve had acess to these things for years. If you have further questions I’m sure there will be someone to ask. Call up the Diocesan office or look on the internet .

I don’t think there is a percentage that a parish must give a Diocese. In fact here it works the other way around. When we donate to a big fund like the Bishop’s Ministry Appeal we get a refund to use on our Ministries. There are costs for things we order from the diocesan offices like the hosts etc and we pay for those.

We don’t have second collections on all the Sunday’s of the year. We do get extra envelopes marked for the FoodPantry, Building Campaign. It’s a matter of choice if we want to use those. Plus we do get visitors from local charities. On Pro-Life Sunday for instance a representative from the local Birthright agency asks for donations which they collect.Sometimes it seems like a lot of asking but then I guess there is a lot of need. I don’t feel obligated to give to everything.
 
ok, i think i may understand it now.

So all collections are given to the diocese and then distributed to the individual churches? And all regular collections are for this purpose (mainly operationg costs) and then second collections are for the other designated charities. I’m sorry, some of these questions i’ve asked may be due to the fact that my church never does second collections, and i can only remember one or two times when they have told us where the money is designated to. Is it not mandatory to do the collections on the USCCB financial schedule, or does my church probably do them but just not mention what they are going to?
 
pio_s said:
ok, i think i may understand it now.

So all collections are given to the diocese and then distributed to the individual churches? And all regular collections are for this purpose (mainly operationg costs) and then second collections are for the other designated charities. I’m sorry, some of these questions i’ve asked may be due to the fact that my church never does second collections, and i can only remember one or two times when they have told us where the money is designated to. Is it not mandatory to do the collections on the USCCB financial schedule, or does my church probably do them but just not mention what they are going to?
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No I did not say all collections are given to the diocese. The extra collections are usually specified otherwise collections taken go for the general use of the individual parish. Do they use envelopes at your Parish? I have never heard that the national collections are mandatory. I only know how they do things here.I cannot say what your church does. We have a first collection and envelopes that say for the parish on them. We may sometimes have a second collection and an envelope that states the particular reason for the offering.

I feel that this conversation is just going round and round. Start by getting that Parish financial report. Most of your questions should be answered there. Write down whatever additional questions you have and ask the appropriate person at your parish.
 
pio_s said:
Hey, im not sure where to put this but i can not seem to get any replies in the Water Cooler…

How exactly does the Church use and manage its money? I know uses its money allother the world, but how exactly does it filter through the crurch and does the church invest? Is there anywhere one can see financial records of the church as a whole?

Also, do you think the church is too lavish and spends money on churches and cathedrals too often, when there are milions of starving individuals in the world. This is the sum of an argument my friend proposed to me, and truthfully i see some truthin it. what do you all say?
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Churches are built by the people. In the old days (anything before the 1900’s) it was quite a thing of pride for an area to build a church. The people would do the actually building and it could take generations to build. Now a days we have the same thing. People donated money or time/materials to the church and a church is built. The diocese has to approve all funding as the diocese is in the end responsible for the loan but the parish must raise a certain amount of funds before hand and having committments to pay the rest. The diocese is not going to approve something that will send it in to debt. If you have specifc then you should aks the priest or call the office for a fiancial statement. It’s pretty easy to get and should be public knowledge.
 
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