Monks, friars, priests and peace

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I am trying to research this, but I can’t find anything conclusive. Are monks, friars, or priests sworn to be pacifists? Can there be a monk who is ready to fight back? Is it permitted but in rarer circumstances than it is for laity?

I know some of our members have close relations with these folks and I would like to know.

Thanks! 🙂
 
They are not sworn to pacifism, however in my experience, many are pacifists. I was led to my personal belief in pacifism by a Franciscan friar- he taught me that in order to live the Gospel, one must renounce violence completely.
 
Really as Christians should we not all be pacifists, or at least working towards that as our ideal?

38You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. …Matthew 5
 
Really as Christians should we not all be pacifists, or at least working towards that as our ideal?

38You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. …Matthew 5
“Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.” Matt. 10:34

Which Bible verse is correct, then?
 
Really as Christians should we not all be pacifists, or at least working towards that as our ideal?

38You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. …Matthew 5
👍👍👍

Pax Christi 🙂
 
“Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.” Matt. 10:34

Which Bible verse is correct, then?
In your example, Jesus was referring to the ‘human’ violence and knee-jerk reactions ‘caused’ by His words and deeds. Even His mother felt the ‘Sword of Sorrow’.

When Peter cut off the ear lobe of one of the Temple guards, Jesus told him put put his sword away, then proceeded to replace the ear lobe.

Sorry, you can’t blame Jesus for any blood lust ‘you’ may have.
 
“Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.” Matt. 10:34

Which Bible verse is correct, then?
I always viewed this one as a call to martyrdom, a metaphorical “sword” that throws people into missions and martyrdom, to struggle for a greater purpose. I just cannot reconcile Jesus’ other verses and apparent principles about violence with the idea that he would bring a physical sword- can you?

Peace 🙂
 
I am so glad pacifism isn’t dogma nor the definite way to “truly” living the gospel, cops and my military brothers would be out of luck in attaining heaven! Then again we cops and vets are whole different breed of people lol instead of eternal rest God will ask us to protect the gates along with the archangels.
 
Btw I think it would really cool to have Benedictine monks who new some style of fighting!
 
Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Psalm 144:1
Of David. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;
 
The military orders are not made up of consecrated religious. They were free to defend the Church. A modern example of a military order is the Knights of Columbus. It defends the Church not with weapons, but with apostolic action.

Secular orders are not the same as military orders, neither are oblates attached to a monastery or abbey. These men and women are bound by the rule written by the founder. Before I explain this, we must remember that not every priest is a consecrated religious. Most priests are secular Catholics. What I’m about to say about consecrated men and women does not apply to a priest who is not consecrated.

The vocation of a consecrated religious is to be a brother to all men. He stands in personal Christi; that is, in the person of Christ who is the first-born among many brothers. Whether he’s ordained or not is irrelevant. If he is a religious, he is a consecrated brother. The secular orders that form part of these religious families are bound by the same founder and the same ideals.

Each founder expresses it differently, but they all say the same thing. No religious may take up arms in defense of any country, nor may any member of a secular order attached to one of those orders.

Just before World War I, the Holy Father gave secular Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites and others permission to join the armed forces. However, the intent has always been that one joins the armed forces to protect the innocent by stopping the aggressor, not to protect the economic interests of any given party. The same applies to religious men and women who join the armed forces as chaplains. They are to serve both sides. They may not turn their back on the other, because he is the enemy. A brother (religious) is no one’s enemy and everyone’s brother.

This has always been a sore spot with many governments and their chaplains, including the Pentegon. The orders have always made it clear that their first obedience is to the Church, second to their founder, third to their brothers, and fourth to their commanding officer provided he is not in conflict with the other three. Right now there is an issue because the religious in the armed forces of many countries, including our own, will not perform same-sex weddings, challenge the military’s practice of passing out contraceptives to its men and women, and challenge abortions performed in military hospitals. They have been ordered to be quiet and they have disobeyed the orders by preaching against these things on Sundays.

The question arises, can the military dictate what a preacher may preach? Does a preacher have the right to preach against war, when that preacher wears a military uniform and is always an officer. Religious men and women in the armed forces enter as Lieutenants.

Are we pacifists? I wouldn’t use that term, because it’s politically heavy. Are we men of peace? Definitely. Do we see ourselves as brothers to all men, regardless of what side of a war they are on? Yes we do. This was very clear during WW II in Europe. Many religious in the armed forces and others not in the armed forces protected and hid Nazis and Allied soldiers from harm. They refused to send teenagers out to be killed. Remember, most of the soldiers on both sides were between 17 and 19 years old.
 
TauCTC;11001366] They are not sworn to pacifism, however in my experience, many are pacifists. I was led to my personal belief in pacifism by a Franciscan friar- he taught me that in order to live the Gospel, one must renounce violence completely.
This verse puts it in a nutshell,
"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." Isaiah 53:7 (KJV);
also quoted, co-incidentally, as the verse that the Eunuch was reading when Phillip miraculously appeared alongside his chariot in Acts 8:32.

Protector.
 
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 22:35-38[/BIBLEDRB]

Also the Teutonic Knights were religious who took vows of poverty, chastity and obedience and were ordained priest, yet served almost exclusively in a military capacity.
 
21“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

38“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Love Your Enemies
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers,h what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5

“Be perfect”, is the ideal. None of us reaches it, but it is the end to which we should all be striving. We should not feel the need to placate our conscience when we fail, We should turn to Christ for forgiveness and then continue our effort.
 
Isn’t the sermon on the mount more about vengeance than self defense? This is the only way I know to understand it: when at one point he says “give whatever is asked of you” and moments later he says “give not to dogs or swine”. To how I’ve understood it, he’s giving an extreme example to say how bad revenge is.

I’m not asking if a monk can come after someone who made too much noise in the monastery and start pummeling him. What I’m really asking is this: if violence comes upon a monastery, or upon the people living around the monastery, can the monks resist it? Can the friar pack heat if need be?

JReducation, I appreciate the wealth of info, there. It’s neat to know that the Holy Father put out permission to join the armed forces. In truth, here’s what I’m getting at: I am considering whether or not a vocation may be the right thing for me. But I know I, at least at the moment, could never swear to not harm another and mean it. If another were being harmed I would happily resolve the situation through force if need be. Can I do this as a monk, or must I stand by?
 
JReducation, I appreciate the wealth of info, there. It’s neat to know that the Holy Father put out permission to join the armed forces. In truth, here’s what I’m getting at: I am considering whether or not a vocation may be the right thing for me. But I know I, at least at the moment, could never swear to not harm another and mean it. If another were being harmed I would happily resolve the situation through force if need be. Can I do this as a monk, or must I stand by?
St. John Bosco wrote his autobiography before he died. In it he tells about a friend who was the target of the town bullies. John would always intervene in his defense. One day, John came upon them as they were beating up the fellow. He tried to stop the bullying with words. That did not work. They continued their assault on their victim. John then escalated to taking a stand between the aggressors and the victim and threatening anyone who came closer. They did not heed his warning.

John was an athletic young man and about 6 ft tall. He rolled up his sleeves and slammed the bleep out of the bullies.

The moral of the story? The highest good is always the protection of the innocent without doing harm. We aim for the highest good and we may be forced to come down from there to the highest good that circumstances allow us to achieve. The response to aggression must be proportionate to the aggression.

Someone like St. Maximilian Kolbe was able to stop the execution of an innocent man by taking his place. That is the highest possible good, to give one’s life for one’s brother. Such an offer will not always be accepted by an aggressor.
 
Thank you all for all of these responses! 👍
(And St. John Bosco sounds pretty grand!)
 
They are not sworn to pacifism, however in my experience, many are pacifists. I was led to my personal belief in pacifism by a Franciscan friar- he taught me that in order to live the Gospel, one must renounce violence completely.
Jesus’ overturning of the money changers’ tables seems pretty “violent” to me. 😉
 
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