Monks, hermits, and monasteries

[Catherine_S]

“It fostered an emotional dependency by monks on their superiors that rendered them incapable of making simple common sense decisions, and the resulting atmosphere of paternalism & infantilism made it at times like living in a nursery for adult babies-- a tight-knit community in which there was a suffocating climate of tension acted out as apple-polishing, jealousy, suspicion, backbiting and covert rivalries for attention, approval, favors and promotions. According to my novice master and a few others old enough to remember, the Order would have changed a lot quicker were it not for abbots with lifetime tenure, and to my knowledge no problems as severe as those that happened under the old system have recurred since the six year terms went into effect roughly 35 years ago.”

Thanks for the insight. I think most Catholics out there think the Trappists are like in the days of Thomas Merton. I guess the idea of a paternelistic image of an abbot was removed with the Camaldolese. Their hermitages are much smaller. Do you think that the changes made in the Trappist monasteries are for the better? I know that they did away with the farm at Gethesmeni. I can see where a monk can loose his vocation if he spends 8 hrs a day packing jellies in a factory. Why live the religious life? You can work in a factory as a lay man.

Hello Mike C…a few thoughts after reading your letter. Immature folks are found every where…in religious communities… first communities (family) In terms of Christianity I think it is a failure on ones part to place Christ at the center of your life…to accept the dieing to self…the cross that life can and will be when folks accept and are seriously seeking God with their whole heart-mind and soul. Even packing jelly for 8 hours a day…if one is centered on the Lord there is growth. Ask most women who dedicated their lives to family…making jelly…bottleing jelly and packing jelly (for years) and they might tell you that there’s a real sense of peace and God’s presence in this lowly chore. I believe that some folks started out in illusion…they entered religious communities unaware of the self-disapline and forgetfulness of self that would be asked of them. Things are a whole lot simplier than we make them out to be… I learned to meditate while cleaning hard wood floors…the wood was beautiful…it had been a tree…the tree could provide beautiful things for us… a tree was part of a horrible story that brought salvation to the human race…on and on… always ending up with God…no one taught me to do this…it just happened and it made household chores lighter…and lead to prayer, praise and gratitude. I believed that the Spirit taught me to look at things this way… that God loved me, was aware of all that I did… and that He was pleased that I took good care of my family. One knew what had to be done to keep the family going…and we had promised to do this with our life. We had been taught that "Life is not about YOU it’s about OTHERS. There is joy in sacrifice and so life does become about you too. That’s the surprise !! We looked forward to time alone…time for prayer… to visit the Church and just sit in the beauty and the silence was a coveted blessing indeed ! I raised a large family…lived through a lot of Good Fridays and Lots of Easter Joy and when it is all said and done I still say… “Life is simple in the end…but we gotta keep our eyes on the Lord.”
May God richly bless you,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Mike_C]

I just mentioned that the packing of jellies and other products led many monks to question their vocation. It took up much of their time. Making jelly and other products were supposed to be a means of support, not an end in itself. Merton even mentions it. Thats why some monks sought to change orders such as the Carthusians or the Camaldolese.

The life of a monk should center on prayer, not the making of material goods, even if it is to support the monastery. A couple of hours a day is fine, but in some monasteries it became a real factory.

 

[eremos]

Making jelly or anything else is not the goal of monastic life and it can become obsessive. You have free and hardworking labor at your disposal so you produce. I think this set up caused problems for the Cistercians when they boomed in the first centuries of the order.

However, over concern for temporal realities is something that we carry everywhere we go. It isn’t just a monastic problem. I’ve seen it in the best of monasteries and convents.

In my case, obedience has asked me to sew and make cute artsy things… but the outcome was not very cute. So the question often came up regarding what I could to do to bring in income or make presents for benefactors. In the end I did laundry, mended clothes, made photocopies, bound books, etc.

But I think there was always an unease about me becuase I was neither cutesy myself nor could I make such things.

 

[copland]

Catherine S.

Thank you for those words of wisdom! I have been trying learn more about contemplation along with meditation. Coming from a protestant past and looking into a new world with a desire to be Catholic, I find myself seeing all that there is to be blessed through the teachings of the Catholic Church and it excites me! I can never see how a Catholic who understands their faith would even think about becoming a protestant. What a major downgrade!!!

Thanks again!! vbmenu_register(“postmenu_129484”, true);

 

[headman13]

**Hello Headman 13…It is true…the contemplatives are and always will be the power houses in the Church but so too were the homes of all the contemplative men and women who lived their lives caring for their families …passing on the faith…working long hours and living hard lives. Centered on Christ and people of prayer…they knew the Good Fridays of faith and the Easter Sundays. Quiet time in the presence of the Lord…was a real gift…rising early in the morning to be with Him before the family was awake and clamoring for food and lord knows what else…or going off to work in all types of weather because the family needed to be taken care of…all these loving people who sacrificed thier lives so that the needs of their families were met also built the Church. To see the decline of those who choice religious life or married life does not mean very much…self-centerness rather than other-centerness is not new in the life of the church…this too will pass as it always has in History…**it does not signal a decline in the Church…but a oooomph… renewal (which has already begun) The Lord is renewing His Church raising up wonderful folks both religious and Lay who will serve the Church and others as they have in the past. The Church will remain until the Lord’s return… strong and Beautiful…the Rock !!! God Bless you Headman,
Shalom,
Catherine

HI Catherine—been busy am just getting around to checking the Forums agian. Thanks for your response. I pray that you are correct and that a renewal of the church has begun, especially in the communities of religious. I am very attracted to the community life. Was bitterly disappointed to find out there is an AGE limit: 35 for the Benedictines. BITTER disappontment. But hey may be right, at 55 I am probably waaaay to set in my ways Do you know if all the orders have age limits?? Shalom and blessings to you

 

[Catherine_S]

copland:

Catherine S.

Thank you for those words of wisdom! I have been trying learn more about contemplation along with meditation. Coming from a protestant past and looking into a new world with a desire to be Catholic, I find myself seeing all that there is to be blessed through the teachings of the Catholic Church and it excites me! I can never see how a Catholic who understands their faith would even think about becoming a protestant. What a major downgrade!!!

Thanks again!! vbmenu_register(“postmenu_129484”, true);

** Hi Copland**…I think that the Church needed the wake-up call that came with what is known as** Protest**-ant-ism (if that is even a word…the Church ( or rather many in it ) had become rather corrupt. The Protestants soon lost the fire as well… if we live in the upper story of the house—(intellectualize too much)…we loose the heart of Christ’s message…(.the main floor)…He than has to take us through the Basement and it can get pretty dark there!!! Christianity bottom line is genuinely about a relationship with the Lord…a relationship of Love…Love is (botton line) about commitment. This love does not disappear when I am not spending quiet time alone with the Lord … one can be off tending to the needs of others out of Love for them and because the Lord has instructed us to do this…“What ever you do to the least…you do to me” JC……He is with us always and we are at prayer always.…Mother Theresa was a modern day prophet and mystic and her form of Spirituality was to be comtemplative in the world. Her order of nuns grew as it did because these women sought God with their whole heart, soul and mind…and dedicated their lives to service. Apart form perhaps a group of Law men…( the upper story)…who expect to pull it all together and move us backward in time, The Sisters of Charity increased fairly quickly… there are other (upper story) folks as well and these are so open minded that their brains are about to fall out. **The Catholic Church is Beautiful and the Bride of Christ . **According to the Protestants today (20-30,000 differant denominations …all separated because of interpretation) it would appear that Christ has many many brides. According to the scandals and upper story folks in the Catholic Church there are only absolutes OR **everything is relative …no right or wrong…God is love and we kind of just make mistakes as part of growing up ha ha!!! Both are true in a way…but the house is not completly occupied so I expect that we may have a sense that we are in the basement for a while yet !!! Our hope and trust is in Christ…He is with us…**raising up (as always) those mystics, prophets and spiritual folks that will tend to His sheep, labour long and keep their eyes on Him…trying daily to be faithful… to do what He has asked them to do… in what ever walk of life they find themselves. The Catholic Church is Beautiful…The Bride of Christ…The Rock…Jesus began the Church and she stands until His return. I feel deep joy to hear you speak of the Catholic Church with admiration… thank you for your note Copland…He has touched your heart, Heart and Head =wholeness=holiness = the Spirit moving !!!
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Catherine_S]

headman13:

HI Catherine—been busy am just getting around to checking the Forums agian. Thanks for your response. I pray that you are correct and that a renewal of the church has begun, especially in the communities of religious. I am very attracted to the community life. Was bitterly disappointed to find out there is an AGE limit: 35 for the Benedictines. BITTER disappontment. But hey may be right, at 55 I am probably waaaay to set in my ways Do you know if all the orders have age limits?? Shalom and blessings to you

Hello headman…Nice to hear from you ! :yup: If the different religious orders are thining… my automatic response is that this must be what the Lord wants…for what ever reason ! 55 is still very young and a time when folks are a little wiser than they were in their youth…it sounds to me as though an order might miss a person that would be exceptionally good for the community with this sort of stipulation. You wrote that you are set in your ways…does this mean that you want things your way ? This would not be good at any age…its losing self that brings about new life. I can not offer you any help in regards to the Orders or their requirements for acceptance.My life has been spent in service…family first than many ministries within the Church. Inner city, nursing homes, feeding, clothing the poor and so forth. Centered on prayer ofcourse …John of the Cross is my most loved mystic. It is always our relationship with Christ that directs where we will go and what we have to give to others. Ministry and Community flow from the heart. We can only give what we have received ourselves. I do know several small Orders…one works with men coming out of prisons or drug and alcohol institutions… providing a home for them and a sense of community which in turn prepares them to fair better when they are on their own again. These men do wonderful work… are centered on the Lord… and prayer is foundational. Again, one is trying to live the life of a comtemplative in the world. It is a draining ministry but their hearts are in it and the Lord sustains them. Some of the Bishops pull back now …concern for anything that could lead to scandal they do not support (and they should) these folks are sincere Labourers…the harvest is plentiful but theres a lot of fear in the Church today. This little order is always looking for good men.The Church will be fine headman…its Christ Church…our hope is in Him…there has and will be more purification but this needs to be done…we have been blessed with a wonderful Pope in our day…I think that a new pope will come from a part of the world where the Cross is so much a reality that Scripture is lived on a much deeper level than it is in the Western World. This can only be good for the Church. Well headman I think I will sign off…**Let the Lord lead and may he richly bless you, **
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[headman13]

Hi Catherine—good to hear from you. The community life appeals to me, and like you I think that an age limit is sort of artificial and might cause an order to miss the acquired wisdom of someone who has been around the block a time or two. As for being set in my ways, I am in many respects I guess, although always getting my own way is not one of them—having been a pastor for 30 years sort of gets you over that. But like AA Milne’s king in When We Were Very Young : “I do like a bit of butter on my bread.” Perhaps on the one hand, one becomes less flexible about some things with age, perhaps on the other hand more understanding about the weakness of mortal flesh.

Now in the “Late Summer” of life, with the kids being just about raised–both are in university now-- I have thought more about being in a community. It’s a thought.

Glory to God in the highest and peace to God’s people on earth.

 

[Catherine_S]

headman13:

Hi Catherine—good to hear from you. The community life appeals to me, and like you I think that an age limit is sort of artificial and might cause an order to miss the acquired wisdom of someone who has been around the block a time or two. As for being set in my ways, I am in many respects I guess, although always getting my own way is not one of them—having been a pastor for 30 years sort of gets you over that. But like AA Milne’s king in When We Were Very Young : “I do like a bit of butter on my bread.” Perhaps on the one hand, one becomes less flexible about some things with age, perhaps on the other hand more understanding about the weakness of mortal flesh.

Now in the “Late Summer” of life, with the kids being just about raised–both are in university now-- I have thought more about being in a community. It’s a thought.

Glory to God in the highest and peace to God’s people on earth.

Hi headman**…thanks for the reply**…hope all is well in your part of the world…we are having cooler weather with signs of rain here in Toronto… great after a lot of hot humid weather. I have never read the book “When We Were Very Young” but it sounds interesting. I think the " less flexable" that seems to come with maturity is really the result of more certitude…if nothing else we kind of know what does not work ! If we are not careful we can become impatient with others. Remembering our own weaknesses as human beings does produce some humility…we are all a part of the human race and not called to sit in some ivory tower …making grand judgements on others for certain. This is one of the worse things for Community building. Community is something we are all made for though…at least I believe so…we need the (name removed by moderator)ut from others for growth and belonging is important too…standing alone is not the best. I hope you run into information on a prayful community for yourself…it sounds as if this would be good for you. Thirty years as a pastor is a long time in service to others…I’m sure you have seen and heard much and have already done a lot of pondering about life. Its nice you have two grown children. Being a father is certainly a worthy vocation as well…they must be very busy with their own lives…I find that mine are. Sometimes I feel I am kind of a responsibility they must tend to rather than a loved person that they just can not wait to visit ha ha The ambivalence is a pain in the butt… children do not always “let go” and allow you to just be another human being…the maturity is not there yet. We are now back to where my response began…youth and ageing ha ha :yup: We have come a long way from monks, mystics and hermits or talk of religious communities…better sign off before they kick me off ha haTake Care and God Bless You,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[headman13]

HI Catherine----it’s a little digression but a nice one. My two kids are their father’s delight, both very smart, very hardworking and loving. Wish my son were more involved in Church but he will come around. My daughter is very faithful. Am mighty grateful for both of them as they start to leave the parental nest and make lives for themselves. My son-20- just got his first apartment.I was a little concerned, but then I realized I was out on my own when I was 18 and 500 miles from home, HE at least is in our hometown.

30 years is a long time in ministry. I do enjoy it and hope I have learned something over the years. As we say in Pennsylvania German “We grow too soon old and too late smart.” It’s quite true.

The AA Milne book “When we were very young” is one of the companion poetry books to his more famous Winnie the Pooh books. It contains such classics as “The King and the Milkmaid” quoted, “Bad Sir Brian Botany” [who “went amongthe villagers and blipped them on the head”] and “James James Morrison Morrison Weatherby George DuPree” [who “took good care of his mother, though he was only three”]. It is delightful.

 

[Catherine_S]

headman13:

HI Catherine----it’s a little digression but a nice one. My two kids are their father’s delight, both very smart, very hardworking and loving. Wish my son were more involved in Church but he will come around. My daughter is very faithful. Am mighty grateful for both of them as they start to leave the parental nest and make lives for themselves. My son-20- just got his first apartment.I was a little concerned, but then I realized I was out on my own when I was 18 and 500 miles from home, HE at least is in our hometown.

30 years is a long time in ministry. I do enjoy it and hope I have learned something over the years. As we say in Pennsylvania German “We grow too soon old and too late smart.” It’s quite true.

The AA Milne book “When we were very young” is one of the companion poetry books to his more famous Winnie the Pooh books. It contains such classics as “The King and the Milkmaid” quoted, “Bad Sir Brian Botany” [who “went amongthe villagers and blipped them on the head”] and “James James Morrison Morrison Weatherby George DuPree” [who “took good care of his mother, though he was only three”]. It is delightful.

Hello again headman…nice to hear from you. Your son and daughter sound very nice …**the apples never fall far from the tree **:nope:. You have been a good Father !!! Thank you for the list of books… I may check one or two of them out… do not know when I will get a chance to read them as I have a mountain of sewing to do. **I realize that I intruded on a forum that really is for men…**monks, hermits and monastaries. It was the comtemplative way that I hoped to share thoughts on but I think I will leave you men to get on with your discussions …there will be another site for me. It was very nice to converse with you headman and all the others. Thank you and may God richly bless you all…
Shalom,
Catherine
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[headman13]

HI Catherine, always a pleasure to see your posts. Your interest in the contemplative life is quite uplifting. Am glad there are still contemplative folks around. I am drwan to the Benedictines because of their emphasis on activity and contemplation : Ora et Labore, work & Pray. I truly love the Divine Office and the execution of the Liturgy. Lived near the Benedictine Abbey at Beuron in the Black Forest, they are very active in liturgical renewal. Most inspirational.

 

[Behind_the_Wall]

Greetings, I am a new member, I just joined Catholic Answers and was reading some comments on ( Monks, Hermits and Monasteries). These were on 2004, it is now 2013 and a few of them caught my eye, especially one who goes by the name of CHERUBINO.

He was a Trappist Monk between the years of 59-65. I kinda related to his story.

I was a Trappistine Nun ( OCSO), during that time for almost seven years. I really loved being there but there were some things one had to put up with in order to partake of the “Better Part” of prayer, silence, Spiritual reading, and learning to know and love the God who Created us.
I do understand the problem with obedience, it does make one very child like if it is done in the right spirit. The bigger problem is when people in Authority do not know how to use it, then the subject suffers. I know, Jesus says to “Take up your cross and follow Me,” and we must suffer with Him, but with that comes discretion & discernment. Is this the place for me under these circumstances? Am I able to love God and my neighbor here and grow in that love?

I was faced with these questions, and how and why I came out I wrote in a book called: “Behind the Wall.” It is a Memoir of the time I spent in the Trappistine Monastery and one soul’s search for God.

If you care to learn more about it, check out my website: behindthewallbook.com
I would be interested to hear from any of you who read this note.
Thank you and Have a Blessed Day

 

[Robert_Sock]

You do not need to be in a monastery to develop a deep and meaningful relationship with God! God is far beyond materialism, so you may want to begin by giving up worldly pleasures, just like they do in monasteries. You will probably also want to give up meaningless activities and vain form of “entertainment,” like getting involved in watching sports. Avoiding false worship, like earthly science which denies God and will never consider religious spirituality in anything scientific, like the effects spiritual maladies on mental health. Getting a good contemplative book, like The Imitation of Christ to guide you, may be another good idea, along with Centering Prayer and reading or listening to the Divine Office, are also recommended. And acts of charity, like simply writing this type of message to help people interested in a monastic life but for one reason or another are unable to, are also encouraged because such acts draw down Divine consolation. Charity is often considered the oil that keeps the lamp of contemplation from being extinguished. If you desire spiritual wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, you have to have plenty of oil, like the wise Virgins who waited patiently for the bridegroom.