Monogamy selfish?

[Midwest88]

I was researching on different views on premarital sex and how it effects ones view on marriage and dating. Some views thought monogamy, or sexual exclusivity, are dated and oppressive; someone gave me this link (WARNING, MATURE CONTENT AND TERMS): moderndirections.com/46.htm I suggest to read the entire page, to gain a better perspective and reasons to why (or lack thereof), and maybe even read the linked pages that go even deeper about this lifestyle.

Although the transition will certainly be bumpy, if we are able to shift our emphasis to love and commitment to hold relationships together rather than the refutable doctrines about sexual exclusivity which simply cater to jealousies and insecurities, it would not only eliminate much heartache, but it would remove many of the “justifications” for dissolving relationships.

In other links it is said that such feelings such as jealousy, possessiveness and fear of abandonment drives people to justify monogamy (it is, in the sites view, social conditioning and indoctrination), and only the most secure and confident relationships can handle non-monogamous/open relationships. These types of open relationships are “sexual liberating” for both partners according to the site and personal testimonies from those who participate in this lifestyle; some even testify that it brought the couple even closer and made their relationship/marriage stronger.

Of course, if this is the case, what does that make people who do not subscribe to such practices and do feel jealousy and possessiveness? Mentally and emotionallu weak? Oppressors? Neanderthals?

Keep in mind that this site I refer to is a secular site. People I’ve interacted with via internet say that even Christian, even Catholics, live this lifestyle. I know that it is “none of my business” on how a couple shares their sexuality, one partner may even say that the other partner has no say on how he/she shares/uses his/her body, but I feel deeply disturbed about this arrangement.

It all seems a bit sociopathic, at least that what I get from those that explained it to me who live such a “double” life. To each his own I guess.

Thoughts? Experiences?

 

[beenwashed]

Sounds like they’re the selfish ones. They want someone permanently in their life, but they still want to look around. They want to get their rocks off with whoever they want, and come home to someone who is ok with that. It is against natural law. There is a reason people get jealous and hurt when someone cheats/sleeps around. It is a natural reaction, not some concocted feeling because we are told to feel that way. I wonder what the divorce rate is among “open couples.”

 

[Qwestions]

Hi, Midwest. In the overall scheme of life, a non-monogamous lifestyle is a drain on the brain, the emotions, and the soul, and is a total waste of time and energy–besides being a one-way ticket to hell.

Why are we here? Why do people exist? Seek those answers and build from them. God has told us through the Bible why we’re on this earth, how we should live, and what actions will permit or annihilate sharing His everlasting love in Heaven. When we entertain ideas such as this satanic secular nonsense, we waste our time and invite the devil to nibble on our brains. Why purposely self-destruct like that? Not only do we sin if we engage in such a life, but we invite the occasion of sin if we give it much thought, and it’s our duty to protect our souls, not purposely subject them to slaughter.

Such experimenters are to be pitied, because they aren’t going to find genuine happiness in their never-ending quest for that which can only be attained through a monogamous marriage.

If you study sociology (and history, religion, and philosophy) you’ll see that propagation of people, therefore society, is largely determined by the family unit, no matter how depraved or deprived, or how Christian or non-Christian, a nation may be. A Catholic’s adult life is spent either in a single or a married state. If called to marriage, a spouse must be open to life within that family unit begun in the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. Period.

The Catholic Catechism embraces what we need to know, what we need to do, how we should do it, and why–all in a simple format of questions and answers that can streamline our journeys through these lives that we’re living; it’s a proven blueprint for making life a bit easier than just blundering through it. Time is so very precious. Why waste a minute of it on such debilitating drivel?

 

[beenwashed]

Also, you said it yourself, this is a secular website. They don’t mention anything about contraception and its very limited use before the 1930s and other such sex related things. You said that people have stated that Christians and even some Catholics live this lifestyle. Are you trying to say that someone who calls themselves Christian/catholic and practices this lifestyle makes cheating/sleeping around ok? Last I checked, Christians and Catholics weren’t infallible.

 

[beenwashed]

I was researching on different views on premarital sex and how it effects ones view on marriage and dating. Some views thought monogamy, or sexual exclusivity, are dated and oppressive; someone gave me this link (WARNING, MATURE CONTENT AND TERMS): moderndirections.com/46.htm I suggest to read the entire page, to gain a better perspective and reasons to why (or lack thereof), and maybe even read the linked pages that go even deeper about this lifestyle.

In other links it is said that such feelings such as jealousy, possessiveness and fear of abandonment drives people to justify monogamy (it is, in the sites view, social conditioning and indoctrination), and only the most secure and confident relationships can handle non-monogamous/open relationships. These types of open relationships are “sexual liberating” for both partners according to the site and personal testimonies from those who participate in this lifestyle; some even testify that it brought the couple even closer and made their relationship/marriage stronger.

**Of course, if this is the case, what does that make people who do not subscribe to such practices and do feel jealousy and possessiveness? Mentally and emotionallu weak? Oppressors? Neanderthals? **

Keep in mind that this site I refer to is a secular site. People I’ve interacted with via internet say that even Christian, even Catholics, live this lifestyle. I know that it is “none of my business” on how a couple shares their sexuality, one partner may even say that the other partner has no say on how he/she shares/uses his/her body, but I feel deeply disturbed about this arrangement.

It all seems a bit sociopathic, at least that what I get from those that explained it to me who live such a “double” life. To each his own I guess.

Thoughts? Experiences?

I also find it interesting that you only seem to think the monogamous people are “Neanderthals” or oppressors. You don’t give the time of day to the other side of thinking, that sleeping around might be the “Neanderthal-ic” thing.

Morality isn’t relative and it stands the test of time.

 

[beenwashed]

This article is so stupid. They sAy we’re conditioned to feel jealous. That those feelings are society driven. That’s like saying when someone is killed, their loved ones who feel pain and grief are only feeli g that way because society has conditioned them to think its sad to lose someone.

 

[St_Francis]

While there have always been people who wanted to have sex indiscriminately, the idea of “open marriage” under that name came up in the 70s with a book of that name. Guess what? It still hasn’t taken off.

Those people are lying through their teeth to justify committing their lustful SELFISH desires. They are the ones who are selfish, creating havoc and pain among those who are around them because they want to have whatever they want like spoiled brats.

 

[smswife]

And since no one has yet mentioned it, these “open” sexual relationships would be devastating for any children conceived. Even the ones allowed to be born.

Children thrive best when raised in a home with mother and father. These kids would not even know which one their father was.

And since “anything goes” sexually, these kids would be at high risk for becoming victims of sexual abuse.

And while open sexual relationships may not have become the norm, a very large percentage of the U.S. population practices serial monagamy without marriage, which in practice almost is the same thing. This is also proving to be devastating for children, 40% of whom now are born to unmarried parents.

 

[beenwashed]

And since no one has yet mentioned it, these “open” sexual relationships would be devastating for any children conceived. Even the ones allowed to be born.

Children thrive best when raised in a home with mother and father. These kids would not even know which one their father was.

And since “anything goes” sexually, these kids would be at high risk for becoming victims of sexual abuse.

And while open sexual relationships may not have become the norm, a very large percentage of the U.S. population practices serial monagamy without marriage, which in practice almost is the same thing. This is also proving to be devastating for children, 40% of whom now are born to unmarried parents.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[Midwest88]

You said that people have stated that Christians and even some Catholics live this lifestyle. Are you trying to say that someone who calls themselves Christian/catholic and practices this lifestyle makes cheating/sleeping around ok?

No, I never stated or implied what you said since I myself never stated it - it was those who said that even Christians/Catholics (not all, but some) practice this and resort to the belief that monogamy is selfish.

 

[Midwest88]

I also find it interesting that you only seem to think the monogamous people are “Neanderthals” or oppressors. You don’t give the time of day to the other side of thinking, that sleeping around might be the “Neanderthal-ic” thing.
.

I never “seem to think this” since I was offering a juxtaposition to what stated within the link.

 

[Bezant]

I was researching on different views on premarital sex and how it effects ones view on marriage and dating. Some views thought monogamy, or sexual exclusivity, are dated and oppressive; someone gave me this link (WARNING, MATURE CONTENT AND TERMS): moderndirections.com/46.htm I suggest to read the entire page, to gain a better perspective and reasons to why (or lack thereof), and maybe even read the linked pages that go even deeper about this lifestyle.

In other links it is said that such feelings such as jealousy, possessiveness and fear of abandonment drives people to justify monogamy (it is, in the sites view, social conditioning and indoctrination), and only the most secure and confident relationships can handle non-monogamous/open relationships. These types of open relationships are “sexual liberating” for both partners according to the site and personal testimonies from those who participate in this lifestyle; some even testify that it brought the couple even closer and made their relationship/marriage stronger.

Of course, if this is the case, what does that make people who do not subscribe to such practices and do feel jealousy and possessiveness? Mentally and emotionallu weak? Oppressors? Neanderthals?

Keep in mind that this site I refer to is a secular site. People I’ve interacted with via internet say that even Christian, even Catholics, live this lifestyle. I know that it is “none of my business” on how a couple shares their sexuality, one partner may even say that the other partner has no say on how he/she shares/uses his/her body, but I feel deeply disturbed about this arrangement.

It all seems a bit sociopathic, at least that what I get from those that explained it to me who live such a “double” life. To each his own I guess.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Why are you interested in this?

 

[LauraMajestic]

What do I think? Who cares? People can do what they like and it’s not up to us to point fingers and say what is right and wrong.

However, I am personally against open relationships. People have exclusive relationships because they want to share each other and let no one else join in.

 

[OneDayASaint]

I can’t speak for men but I think a woman expecting a man to forsake all others for her is a sign of high self regard, not the other way around.

I have had an interest in this topic in the past because I’ve known many people who have experimented with this lifestyle. The shows I’ve watched and the articles I’ve read had inevitably revealed at least one woman who said “if we were monogamous he would eventually cheat on me anyways” or something to that effect. I don’t see confidence in that, I see desolation. For a woman to not only feel that but to bind herself to a man who will never be faithful to her shows an utter lack of faith in the humanity of her man - he is a beast that is a slave to “nature” that is incapable of saying no to sex with another woman. Media aside the women I’ve known who were open to this lifestyle also had used drugs habitually in one point in their life, had sex with multiple men and women, and almost all of them had at least one painful memory inflicted upon them by a man. One of them was divorced and remarried into an open relationship, and her ex husband beat her. One of them had been anorexic in the past and had been hospitalized because of it. One of them had been molested by a family member, and one was raped at a party in high school.

I won’t say that all women who participate in this lifestyle are like that. I won’t disregard the fact that all the women I have known who accept it have been damaged and/or disillusioned about human nature, though.

One of the shows I watched was pretty bad. I kept having to fast forward through group sex scenes and I know I shouldn’t have watched it but I really wanted to see how the rest of their life was affected by it. But I will say that they sure did have to have a lot of sit downs to work out their jealousy and insecurity regarding their partners. A WHOLE lot of talks with a LOT of tears. More than I can imagine having with a faithful partner. Every single episode the people would have to sit down and make negotiations. They couldn’t go one day without an interpersonal therapy session with each other. I think if it takes that much work to live a certain way then perhaps you’re not supposed to live that way. I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone I had to constantly sit down with to hash over our reactions and feelings towards each other, much less spend the rest of my life with someone intimately and have children together. I wouldn’t have time to raise my children I’d be too busy wrangling sexual diplomacy.

If you don’t want to live according to God’s plan then I suppose you have to ask yourself some questions. I guess the first one would be is it more selfish to give yourself entirely to someone else and expect them to do the same or to expect someone to cleave themselves to you while you have sex with multiple partners?

As I Catholic I don’t have to explore something like that. Thank God! :bowdown2:

 

[Midwest88]

Why are you interested in this?

I’m interested simply because it opposes almost everything the Church says when it comes to sex; sex is a powerful thing. To know how others live and see the world is, at least to me, important. Also I had a run-in of the sorts with this lifestyle.

 

[OneDayASaint]

I’m interested simply because it opposes almost everything the Church says when it comes to sex; sex is a powerful thing. To know how others live and see the world is, at least to me, important. Also I had a run-in of the sorts with this lifestyle.

Knowing how and why others see the world in a different way is important to me as well. More often than not it strengthens my own beliefs. And if I disagree with something, it’s difficult to communicate effectively to someone why I think it is wrong if I don’t understand where they’re coming from at all.

I read more of what you posted and it did reinforce my beliefs. The charts of infidelity are more proof of the “I might as well let him or he’ll just do it behind my back” resignation I’ve seen. What a sad state to be in if it is resignation that steers your course in love.

If a woman married a man who made it clear to her she was too precious to be shared she wouldn’t need the wooing of other men to make her feel desirable. A woman who married a man who was indifferent to her seeing other people is evidence in itself that he failed to do that for her. So her getting this self esteem boost from other sources is just another form of resignation. Resignation that her husband is incapable of making her feel she is the beautiful, captivating creature all women deserve to feel like.

The more I think about it the more polygamy sounds selfish. Polygamy is the refusal to make a gift of your entire self to one special person, after all.

 

[Midwest88]

I have had an interest in this topic in the past because I’ve known many people who have experimented with this lifestyle.

How did the relationship turn out? How did they feel about it?

 

[OneDayASaint]

How did the relationship turn out? How did they feel about it?

With one couple, they split up. During the relationship the female got increasingly physically and emotionally abusive to the point where she would hit him in the middle of a public area. I didn’t know her but I knew him when he was with her. He said he didn’t like it much and felt like there was probably a connection with their open lifestyle and her deteriorating sense of his human dignity. With another couple, the woman left her boyfriend to date a guy in a local band and I think she was monogamous with him. Her ex didn’t really seem to have any idea why that happened. They both seemed to not feel much about each other after the fact. She seemed to have more life to her but that may have been more to do with being girlfriend to a band than not sharing her man with other women.

Two of the couples I knew the girlfriends were strippers and one of them seemed fine though I knew them superficially and the other one the guy kept getting mad because his girlfriend would take pills behind his back all the time.

I also knew a couple of girls who I had actually been really close to in high school who had lifestyles like that later on. The relationships they had like that didn’t last very long. One of them had been raped when she was twelve or thirteen and the other one was molested by her uncle for a period of time. Both of them did a lot of drugs through out most of their life. One of them prostituted herself for a period of time. The other one got married and had a baby and is monogamous now and she seems to be stable. She wasn’t doing drugs anymore and she was working on her alcoholism. The other one I haven’t heard much from since then.

I knew one couple that got married. She had been in monogamous relationships before and divorced her abusive husband before getting into this relationship. They’re both really nice people and they seem to be very happy. I also knew another couple (who met this couple later through a social activity) - I actually vaguely knew one of them in high school - who are married and seem happy. They have small children and own their own home. They are still friends with the people they were friends with in high school and I think they really just sleep with each other like a community thing.

I haven’t seen any of these people in about three or four years so what they’re doing now I don’t know. And I’m sure there are a few more examples I’m just not thinking of at the moment.

Overall with two exceptions (and people I didn’t know well so I couldn’t really say) from what I’ve seen, in general, is the women who were swingers when they were younger had really unhealthy childhoods, and when they left the lifestyle they seemed to find themselves. They seemed healthier and happier - and other aspects of their life changed, not just the sex. They stopped the drugs and the drinking as well. And the women who were monogamous in the past (I’m thinking of the one married couple I mentioned) but became more “open” later did so after a controlling or abusive relationship. In the last statement I’m including women who aren’t in open relationships but refuse to be in monogamous ones which doesn’t exactly apply to your question. So on the part of women it seems to be a reactionary thing.

That’s only the people I’ve known and it could be that everyone I’ve known is an anomaly and all other people with that lifestyle aren’t anything like them.

But as far as your question is concerned, most of the relationships ended. And how they felt about it while they were in the relationship I can’t truly say. You would think while someone is in a relationship they were happy but if it didn’t last there must’ve been something wrong with it. And since most of the people I knew were also doing other things to excess I’m guessing they were trying to fill a void.

When you read about any alternative sexual lifestyle you’ll usually find a lot of talk about sobriety, consent, and boundaries but the only thing I’ve ever seen in practice is consent. The reality is a lot different than the PR.

There are monogamous couples that have all of the same problems I’ve mentioned and a lot of those end as well. So I guess how something ends or how people feel doing it really doesn’t mean anything except to the people involved and people curious about it. The only difference I’ve personally seen is with polygamous people those elements are always there to some degree which makes is seem to me as though there is a connection but with monogamous people you may see it or you may not. But I have to say, I haven’t done any controlled social experiments on this and I can only report and come to my own opinions based on what I’ve seen firsthand.

Sorry if I went on a tangent - you got me thinking about it!

 

[Midwest88]

With one couple, they split up. During the relationship the female got increasingly physically and emotionally abusive to the point where she would hit him in the middle of a public area. I didn’t know her but I knew him when he was with her. He said he didn’t like it much and felt like there was probably a connection with their open lifestyle and her deteriorating sense of his human dignity. With another couple, the woman left her boyfriend to date a guy in a local band and I think she was

. . . . .

Sorry if I went on a tangent - you got me thinking about it!

Thanks for the response. I really appreciate your effort in typing that. In saying that, now I feel all depressed after reading what you posted. The world may be a beautiful place, aesthetically, but it sure ain’t pretty once we delve into the details and trends.

When you read about any alternative sexual lifestyle you’ll usually find a lot of talk about sobriety, consent, and boundaries but the only thing I’ve ever seen in practice is consent.

Same here. Consent has been the constant word that appears in these types of lifestyles.

 

[OneDayASaint]

Thanks for the response. I really appreciate your effort in typing that. In saying that, now I feel all depressed after reading what you posted. The world may be a beautiful place, aesthetically, but it sure ain’t pretty once we delve into the details and trends.

Same here. Consent has been the constant word that appears in these types of lifestyles.

Some things can be beautiful when you delve into the details! I think that’s when you’re headed in the right direction. When the deeper you go, the happier you become.

I do want to reiterate these are just the people I’ve known personally so it may not be the rule. I would also never stand up for such a lifestyle because even when I was a pretty amoral person I felt there were two options that made sense to me: I was either in a monogamous relationship or single. Being in an open relationship might have a “free” attitude but picturing myself in such a situation made me feel like I would be handing my freedom over to a man whom I negotiated my sexuality with. Now that I’m Catholic I have even more reasons to disagree with it.

It was a good question, though, and I’m glad you brought it up. I’d like to see if any other people have had similar experiences or if what they’ve seen was different than what I’ve seen.