Moral Conundrum on Abortion

  • Thread starter Thread starter phil8888
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Assuming you could limit the definition of rape so as to make it rarely usable, would you support the passing of this legislation?
The Texas law overthrown by Roe v. Wade allowed abortion in the case of rape or incest. The problem was that it is hard to prove either. so it practically ruled out a legal abortion. In the light of Casey, I doubt that such a law could stand because of its practical effect. Then again, this court might have a different point of view.
 
This is a good question in theory, but in actual practice new laws don’t generally try to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. Rather than offer a strict list of “when you can” and “when you can’t” do something, they use vague terms such as “if deemed medically necessary.” I don’t know if you realize it or not, but it is legal right now in every single state to get an abortion right up to the moment of birth because of this very concept.

The same day the Supreme Court handed down Roe v. Wade, which everyone knows about, they also handed down Doe v. Bolton. If you don’t know about that case, you should Google it and read it - ALL of it. It is that law that Roe v. Wade has to refer to, and any other law since has referred to, when it comes to the notion of “medical necessity.”

Why read it all? Because you probably wouldn’t take a person seriously who told you that a woman could get an abortion at 9 months because it was causing her family some emotional distress. But, that’s exactly what can AND does happen every day. It is whatever the attending physician says it is.

Why is it, do you suppose, that when the last President’s administration sought to examine some of these medical records to determine if the medical “reason” documented for abortions were, in fact, valid - that is, in accordance with Doe v. Bolton criteria, the Federal Court Judges were all over them and shut them down in a heartbeat? They don’t want that can of worms opened, where their courtrooms would fill up with cases challenging this or that not being in accordance with Doe.

So in the scenario proposed in this thread, a more likely approach would be that a new law would use the nebulous phrase “medical necessity” or one like it, and that would be viewed as meaning “refer to the criteria as set forth in Doe v. Bolton” to determine what medical necessity is. This is how our politicians play this little game with us… they SAY they only support abortion in “limited” cases, but then the list of “limited” is the Doe list, which is really no limit at all.

This is one of the key paragraphs in the decision; it puts the decision determining medical necessity square in the hands of the attending physician and no one else. Whatever the doctor says, goes. If the doctor says abort at 9 months, that’s what’s medically necessary. Emphases are mine.
The statute’s emphasis, as has been repetitively noted, is on** the attending physician’s "best clinical judgment that an abortion is necessary."That should be sufficient.** The reasons for the presence of the confirmation step in the statute are perhaps apparent, but they are insufficient to withstand constitutional challenge. Again, no other voluntary medical or surgical procedure for which Georgia requires confirmation by two other physicians has been cited to us. If a physician is licensed by the State, he is recognized by the State as capable of exercising acceptable clinical judgment. If he fails in this, professional censure or deprivation of his license are available remedies. Required acquiescence by co-practitioners has no rational connection with a patient’s needs and unduly infringes on the physician’s right to practice. The attending physician will know when a consultation is advisable the doubtful situation, the need for assurance when the medical decision is a delicate one, and the like. Physicians have followed this routine historically and know its usefulness and benefit for all concerned. It is still true today that “[rleliance must be placed upon the assurance given by his license, issued by an authority competent to judge in that respect, that he [the physician] possesses the requisite qualifications.” Dent v. West Virginia, 129 U.S. 114, 122-123 (1889). See United States v. Vuitch, 402 U.S., at 71.
Go read the case; it will help you understand current attempts to massage the laws before our Congress right now, to where you’re told it says one thing, but it supports a lot more than you think.
 
Thank you guys. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because there is an american group that has a zero-tolerance position on abortion, which is fine. but they went so far as to say people who supported the passing the partial birth abortion legislation were NOT pro-life because there are other ways to kill a child without partial birth abortion. Anyway, a discussion of this group came up and I said that people like fr. frank pavone who supported this are definitely pro-life. After I said this, a lady who is very active and involved in the pro-life movement lambasted me and sarcastically said I’m ok with babies being slaughtered one way but not another. Then she accused me of not having common sense. Later, I asked the same question as I asked you above. She said we should vote no on that legislation because we are then consenting to the killing of babies in certain cases. She actually even quoted Evangelium Vitae. And then she said we can’t do evil so good can come of it. But this is a very different case.

I was very put off by her attack on me, and I wanted to see what other pro-life people thought. Obviously it seems most people here would support incremental improvement rather than an all or nothing proposition. To me, when you go for all or nothing, you are making this some sort of negotiation, like a car sale. It then becomes a sort of ideological arm wrestle rather than seeking to improve the law one step at a time. Anyway, just to respond to the assertion that this is doing evil so that good may come of it, I would say that’s false. Here we are asked to choose. Either unlimited abortion, or restricted abortion. There is no option here for no abortion. In moral theology, if you are given ONLY 2 options, one being a lesser evil and one being a greater evil, we must pick the lesser evil.
That’s kind of sad. If she says these things to you, she has to be willing to say the same things about John Paul II because, in Evangelium Vitae 73, he clearly says that it’s okay to support such legislation that works incrementally at limiting abortion.
 
Going over my replies from some time ago, I saw that I had been told I was “fed… lies…” regarding abortion for the sake of the mothers life. I have been there. The 2 examples are not the only 2 out there. I say this because of personal experience - and I’ll believe my nephrologist and obgyn before ill take the word of someone whom im guessing is not a doctor amd has not been in this situation. So no I was not fed lies. Perhaps you were…
 
Going over my replies from some time ago, I saw that I had been told I was “fed… lies…” regarding abortion for the sake of the mothers life. I have been there. The 2 examples are not the only 2 out there. I say this because of personal experience - and I’ll believe my nephrologist and obgyn before ill take the word of someone whom im guessing is not a doctor amd has not been in this situation. So no I was not fed lies. Perhaps you were…
The poster who said that to you has not logged into the forum for three and a half years.
 
This thread has been dormant for a considerable period. With rare exceptions, reviving threads after a protracted period of inactivity is discouraged because:
  • the issues that spurred them are often no longer “hot” or current topics, explaining why thread activity ceased originally.
  • posters originally involved in the discussion are sometimes no longer active on the forum and, therefore, unavailable to reply to comments added to the thread.
Our experience suggests that, when a topic merits revival, it is best accomplished by initiating a new thread that draws on recent events and can be posted to contemporaneously. This eliminates the baggage of folks being frustrated by asking and not receiving responses to issues raised in early posts (because the new poster didn’t notice that the post he was responding to was made a long time ago).

Posters are very welcome to open a new thread on the subject or any other topic, as well as to actively participate in the myriad active threads in the fora.
**
Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed. **
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top