Moral culpability for crazy tyrants like Saddam Hussien and Hitler?

[undeserving]

We are all responsible for the choices that we make. We know what is good and what is evil. When we choose evil we do it with full knowledge because there is something in it for us, in the case of these two gentlemen-power. It is very difficult to choose good over evil for temporal gratification is very often not available when we do this… The problem is when we go down this road it is very difficult to return, our conscience becomes deadenned and we hear the voice of God not at all. BUT there have been cases of great sinners who repent and return to God.His grace is there for us all the time.

 

[godbless]

What Father said is that Saddam grew up in a bizarre sadistic household, where he was exposed to horrendous cruelty and violence. He killed his first victim at age 12. He is a sociopath, maybe a psychopath. If he disagreed with what someone was saying while conversing, he might just shoot them dead without any warning.

So maybe his mind was so warped by these experiences, plus maybe he also had a mental illness that affected his thinking processes and ability to discern right from wrong.

I personally believe that people can be so sick in the head as to not be responsible for their actions. I’m don’t specifically know the state of Saddam’s soul, however.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

What Father said is that Saddam grew up in a bizarre sadistic household, where he was exposed to horrendous cruelty and violence. He killed his first victim at age 12. He is a sociopath, maybe a psychopath. If he disagreed with what someone was saying while conversing, he might just shoot them dead without any warning.

So maybe his mind was so warped by these experiences, plus maybe he also had a mental illness that affected his thinking processes and ability to discern right from wrong.

I personally believe that people can be so sick in the head as to not be responsible for their actions. I’m don’tSure–that Saddam’s soul is los t to the devil for good, and is a wasted soul.specifically know the state of Saddam’s soul, however.

 

[Zooey]

I think you have just pointed out what makes our Faith so wonderful. We don’t presume that someone is in Hell - we leave that judgement to God and we pray for their eternal soul.

While I think it would be pretty easy to assign any and all negative behavior to ‘they must be nuts’ category we do have to be careful that we don’t completely overlook how important it is to step up to the plate and take responsibility for our actions.

Good post, Leslie!!
We have to be careful not to err on either side of the line.
I am particularly uncomfortable with the idea that we can necesarily assume that all evil people are insane, or a victim of circumstances.
It’s not up to me–thank Heaven!–to decide who is & isn’t in hell.
But I am really worried that, in a world where so many think that everything is “relative”, that we forget that evil is not necessarily irresistable…
Some people have been extremely saintly. Others have done horrible things. Let’s be careful not to give to little credit to the saints…They had horrific temptations, some had dreadful lives, and yet–they are saints.

Lots of prayers needed for those who have passed–and for those who may die today or tomorrow!!

 

[Zooey]

What Father said is that Saddam grew up in a bizarre sadistic household, where he was exposed to horrendous cruelty and violence. He killed his first victim at age 12. He is a sociopath, maybe a psychopath. If he disagreed with what someone was saying while conversing, he might just shoot them dead without any warning.

So maybe his mind was so warped by these experiences, plus maybe he also had a mental illness that affected his thinking processes and ability to discern right from wrong.

I personally believe that people can be so sick in the head as to not be responsible for their actions. I’m don’t specifically know the state of Saddam’s soul, however.

I just want to clarify one point here: sociopaths & psychopaths are indeed mentally ill. However–they are in full control of their actions. They know what they are doing is wrong. They just don’t care!! They may not see any reason to follow the rules. They may be having such a good time at their sinful acts that they don’t want to stop.
But they are not out of control. They see the difference between right & wrong just fine, but if they can get what they want by doing what is wrong, they choose to do it–quite freely.

I am not saying this about Saddam in particular, because I am not his shrink. (Don’t want that job, either!) I am just saying, let’s be careful not to forget that having a free will comes into play when we discuss evil. Otherwise, we may end up with no discrimination between evil & illness. That would be tragic–and dangerous!!
God bless.

 

[AndyF]

I just want to clarify one point here: sociopaths & psychopaths are indeed mentally ill. However–they are in full control of their actions. They know what they are doing is wrong. They just don’t care!! They may not see any reason to follow the rules. They may be having such a good time at their sinful acts that they don’t want to stop.
But they are not out of control. They see the difference between right & wrong just fine, but if they can get what they want by doing what is wrong, they choose to do it–quite freely.

I am not saying this about Saddam in particular, because I am not his shrink. (Don’t want that job, either!) I am just saying, let’s be careful not to forget that having a free will comes into play when we discuss evil. Otherwise, we may end up with no discrimination between evil & illness. That would be tragic–and dangerous!!
God bless.

Not to forget the illness can also be a result of sin.

AndyF

 

[godbless]

This is an interesting discussion. It’s a difficult thing to understand, moral culpability. Now that the Church understands some of the biological and enviornmental underpinnings of human behaviour, it seems to have grown more lenient in it’s view of potential salvation. Some of these factors do seem to take away some of our free will. Also, a God who can forgive my sins is also able to forgive a ruthless tyrant (such as my boss).

What if a person is unable to feel remorse for his sins, due to his psychopathic meglomania, such as these two examples of maniacal dictators that I have provided in my opening post?

 

[AndyF]

godbless:

It is difficult to say if this is the case, but it is not entirely uncommon for one who would obstinately ignore the signs and graces that would assist him in becoming a more virtuous person.

One of the effects of sin is compounding of evil, and the more one digs himself to the will of evil, the more difficult it is to climb out of the ditch. Perpective becomes nebulous, and one becomes progressively handicapped in grasping his situation correctly. Everything he does becomes an eventual substitute for the norm. The effects also obstructs the ability to reason(“darkening of intelligence,hardening of the will…NA”) and makes it very difficult to discern suggested temptations, and become aware of temporal graces as they present themselves.

(“The second effect of sin is to entail the penalty of suffering…
The sin may be suffered in this life through the medium of medicinal punishments,calamities,sickness,temporal evils,…a general vitiating of nature, which does not however totally destroy the substance and faculties of the soul, but merely weakens the right exercise of it’s faculties.NA”)

It is not difficult to see this mechanism at work when we read Mat 12,43

“When an unclean spirit departs from a man, it roams through and wastes searching for a place of rest and finding none. “I will go back where I came from”, and returns to find the dwelling swept and tidied.”

Here we have a state of soul where he had accomplished riddance of the spirit, and he should be on guard to keep his house clean, and be prepared for a return assault. On acceptance again, sanctifying grace(macula peccati,Aquinas), is withheld even more and …

“Off it goes again to bring back with it this time seven spirits more evil than itself. They move in and settle there. Thus the last state of the man becomes worse than the first. And that is how it will be for this evil generation”

References see Summa, Newadvent.org/Sin, Joshua22:17, 1Cor 6:11 and in various other literature.

AndyF

 

[Neo_Canaan]

What’s with all the male nouns? Women do stuff like that too.
And getting back to topic, Saddam should have never had been born.

 

[Liberian]

Neo,

It falls under the heading of “love thy neighbor as thyself.” Do you want to wind up in Hell? If not, then don’t wish it on anybody else.

• Liberian

 

[Neo_Canaan]

Neo,

It falls under the heading of “love thy neighbor as thyself.” Do you want to wind up in Hell? If not, then don’t wish it on anybody else.

• Liberian

But Saddam lives far away, so he can’t be my neighbor. To be a neighbor means living next door.