Moral Dilemma # Umpteen

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No, the guy on the ladder was not consciously blocking the escape of others - he wanted to escape but was paralysed by cold and fear.
Can someone smack him upside the head first?? LOL

Seriously though, although I don’t mind these types of questions and I won’t badger you for asking them, I always find the responses fascinating because I suspect that most people would probably respond quite differently if they were in the actual situation presented.
 
Sure, even though one might say that a particular course of action would be logical and/or permissible, it doesn’t mean that one would be able to do it.
Conversely some people do things in these situations which they would never dream of doing in normal circumstances.
 
It sounds like self defense. If someone is threatening your life (even if unintentionally), it’s okay to do whatever it takes to survive.

It’s kind of like if a person passed out behind the wheel of some machine and the only way for you to survive is to shoot him. I’d say you can do it.
 
It sounds like self defense. If someone is threatening your life (even if unintentionally), it’s okay to do whatever it takes to survive.

It’s kind of like if a person passed out behind the wheel of some machine and the only way for you to survive is to shoot him. I’d say you can do it.
So in my example a few posts ago with the kid in the bus on the cliff, it would be OK to kill the child to save yourself?

Whatever it takes, eh?

Sounds like “self-defense” is taken to a whole new level of selfishness.
 
That is wrong. Taking the life of another human is wrong. Only if he was purposely blocking the way or voluntarily gave up his life would there be no sin. I’d either encourage him to go up the latter or climb over him(it can be done, especially with all the adrenaline going) and once onboard find another way to get him up. Ropes, crane, pulleys, I dunno be creative.
 
That is wrong. Taking the life of another human is wrong. Only if he was purposely blocking the way or voluntarily gave up his life would there be no sin. I’d either encourage him to go up the latter or climb over him(it can be done, especially with all the adrenaline going) and once onboard find another way to get him up. Ropes, crane, pulleys, I dunno be creative.
OK, I thought it was quite clear that neither option was possible in the circumstances.
So you would just stay in the ship and die then? Fine, if that’s what you want to choose.
 
OK, I thought it was quite clear that neither option was possible in the circumstances.
So you would just stay in the ship and die then? Fine, if that’s what you want to choose.
I would do whatever I needed to do to get that man and I to safety. I’m a pretty strong fellow, I’ll haul his behind down that latter if I need to.
 
I would do whatever I needed to do to get that man and I to safety. I’m a pretty strong fellow, I’ll haul his behind down that latter if I need to.
OK, so you believe there are no moral dilemmas, or that all the people on that ship needed was your presence? Since they didn’t have someone with your superior physical capabilities, you would suggest THEY just sit there and die then? Mind you, they deserve to die for not being strong enough.
 
OK, so you believe there are no moral dilemmas, or that all the people on that ship needed was your presence? Since they didn’t have someone with your superior physical capabilities, you would suggest THEY just sit there and die then? Mind you, they deserve to die for not being strong enough.
Mellow out man, you don’t need to get all smart about it. Look we( Catholics and Christians) have an obligation to preserve all human life from the moment of conception to natural death. If the oppertunity exists for me to save this man’s life even if it means risking mine I will do what I can. For me pushing him off the latter isn’t an option. However that doesn’t mean I am required to sacrifice my life with him, because that would be an injustice to the life God gave me. I and the other passengers will just have to climb over him if there is no way to get him down the latter. Will they push him off, maybe, maybe not, but that is beyond my control. Now if he had a floatation device, then I jump off with him and carry him to the rescue boat. Christ said, there is no greater love than to give your life for another man. All we can do ask God to give to strengh to do His will when the time comes.
 
I thinks thats one of those things that would haunt you forlife but you wouldnt roast for it, but it woudnt hurt to try and pull him up with you, everyone is a person and we have to try to help each other in hard situations
 
Every effort was made to try and help the guy up or downor get past him in some way, that is clear from the accounts of this real incident. So all these comments about pulling him up, climbing over him or using a flotation device the victims didn’t have are completely missing the point sadly. For sure it wouldn’t be an easy thing to do, and there are arguments from residue that this is a moral dilemma.
 
Here’s what I’ve gathered so far.
The crucial questions are these: To what degree is the man paralyzed? Is he so paralyzed that he can’t comprehend his surroundings and analyze the situation? Is he aware of the fact that he is blocking the escape for the others?

You see if he’s aware of the situation, he can be easily “snapped out of it”.

On the other hand:

If he’s truly aware that he’s blocking the path, then he would be aware that lives are at stake, which should be enough to set him straight, and if it isn’t, that counts as him intentionally posing a threat to your life, and you could push him off the ladder.

If he isn’t aware of the situation, that would make him innocent, which means it wouldn’t be ok to take his life since it’s always wrong to take an innocent life.
 
Which definition of intention are you using?
Why would one intend to stay on the ladder rather than escape?
On the other hand since his brain is in control of his muscles, he is intentionally holding onto the ladder.
The language obscures the different meanings of intention, which make a big difference in moral philosophy.
 
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