Moral dilemma w/ an offhand comment

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Dandelion_Wine

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Over the weekend some buddies had a card party. Buy-in is $20 and I never bring more than that. If I ever lose it (which I have only 1 out of the 4 times we’ve done this so far), I’m done. Many of the guys bring more money and dig into their wallets when they’re down.

Well to save myself a trip to the ATM machine, I asked my son if I could borrow $5 (since I only had $15 on me). I said that if I won anything, I’d split the winnings with him. Because I was going late and they were going to make it an early night, I was thinking if I won anything, it’d be in the $2 to $3 range.

Well, they played longer than they intended and I got luckier than I normally am and wound up with $77! 😃

On the way home I was thinking how kind God was and how we really needed the money right now and that this was a sort of answer to some prayers so I could pay some bills.

It wasn’t until I was in bed that I remembered my offhand remark and I’ve been wrestling with myself.

Things that factor in =>

-My intent was to give him a dollar or two if I won.
-I’m hesitant to give him that $38 because of my other son. My other son, when he wants something, the first thing he does is ask mom and dad what he can do to earn some money so he can buy it. So lately he’s been doing just that. This son doesn’t have the same desire. He just wants mom and dad to pay for whatever he wants. I hate to give him a lot of money when my other son has been working really hard and hasn’t even earned that amount yet
-I even considered since he borrowed me 1/4 the buy-in, to give him 1/4 the winnings.
-It just seems like a lot of money to give him to save me the trouble of going to the ATM machine.

Thoughts? Comments?
 
How old are your sons? Are they capable of understanding what happened and why it’s posing a problem?

Also, how badly do you need the $77 to pay bills?

.
 
If the family is at the place where the 77 is needed to pay bills, it is time to stop gambling.

You made a promise to your son. Keep it.
 
well first of all “splitting” something doesnt always mean 50/50, you could just as easily split something 90/10 or 80/20.

the only potential problem i see is that he just learned that gambling money is pretty darn cool.

if i was you id tell him you lost it and that its gone forever…maybe he wont be so fast to start himself. i know its harmless and i have no issue with it but a childs mind may not be mature enough to understand the risk involved. i guess depends on how old he is though.
 
Keep $20 and give your son back his $5 leaving you with the $15 you started with. Which means you had a night of entertainment basically free. Put the rest in the collection plate, and be done with it.
 
Dandelion_Wine said:
-I even considered since he borrowed me 1/4 the buy-in, to give him 1/4 the winnings.

Thoughts? Comments?
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I think this would be the just thing. You did give him your word, and unless you desperately need that money to put food on the table (which I gather you don’t, else you wouldn’t have played the game) you have to honor the commitment you made even if you don’t like it.
 
A deal is a deal. Give him his half. He’ll think it is great.

You could give him his half with the understanding he gets double his initial investment back which he can spend as he will. The other you’ll hold on to and pay interest (5% per month) until Dec. 10 when he can have it to buy presents or whatever he’d like to do with it.

Of course, the above plan isn’t going to fly at all if he’s in high school.
 
Your word is your word, that has to be honoured. You understood it to be half so give him half. You’ve still got $35 more than you expected and that’s something to be thankful for.

It sounds as though you should really be playing for matches. It’s the social thing about these games you enjoy, right?
 
OK, how about this:

He gave you the $5, give it back (it was his). Tell him what happened (that you won way more than you could have anticipated) then tell him that God has blessed you with this money for a reason.

From there, it’s up to you - you can pay bills with it, give it to the Church, etc. Of course, you can split it with your son however you see fit. While I can’t make the decision for you, I would recommend 2 things:
  1. Pray about this. Ask God why He gave you this, and what HE wants you to do with it.
  2. Let your son see you doing God’s will with this money. You mentioned that he seems content with having mom and dad buy him everything rather than working for it, so show him the value of a dollar.
 
kage_ar said:
If the family is at the place where the 77 is needed to pay bills, it is time to stop gambling.
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I was thinking this exact same thing.
kage_ar said:
You made a promise to your son. Keep it.
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👍 I agree. A promise is a promise.

If daddy doesn’t keep his word then why would his son keep his word to others in the future? Lead by example.
 
You could always put his portion in a bank account or in his college fund.
 
When I unveiled Silversoundz last year, I led with a poetic waxing in defense of music writing that was not fixated on novelty–on being the first to go on record with an opinion on new song X or album Y. It sounded like a crotchety attempt at high-mindedness, but it was also founded in practicality. With the multiplication of music media, and the ease and speed of production, it’s inherently futile to try and stay on top of everything at once. Let’s face it: for most, the internet has become THE portal for accessing new, if not all, music. Yet the internet has also screwed with our decision making as music consumers by making it easier to publish and access opinions…not necessarily to form them.

As we try desperately to keep up with the volume of music available, we devour more and digest less. Meanwhile, every download comes with stigma–be it an offhand review, blog comments, even the street cred of the site you’re pulling music from. These are new shades of old problems, of course. But instead of reviews in a limited number of music mags, what we heard on the radio or from friends, now we have about 5,000 (name removed by moderator)uts to consider. Not to mention bands’ increased ability to promote themselves
 
Dandelion_Wine said:
Over the weekend some buddies had a card party. Buy-in is $20 and I never bring more than that. If I ever lose it (which I have only 1 out of the 4 times we’ve done this so far), I’m done. Many of the guys bring more money and dig into their wallets when they’re down.

Well to save myself a trip to the ATM machine, I asked my son if I could borrow $5 (since I only had $15 on me). I said that if I won anything, I’d split the winnings with him. Because I was going late and they were going to make it an early night, I was thinking if I won anything, it’d be in the $2 to $3 range.

Well, they played longer than they intended and I got luckier than I normally am and wound up with $77! 😃

On the way home I was thinking how kind God was and how we really needed the money right now and that this was a sort of answer to some prayers so I could pay some bills.

It wasn’t until I was in bed that I remembered my offhand remark and I’ve been wrestling with myself.

Things that factor in =>

-My intent was to give him a dollar or two if I won.
-I’m hesitant to give him that $38 because of my other son. My other son, when he wants something, the first thing he does is ask mom and dad what he can do to earn some money so he can buy it. So lately he’s been doing just that. This son doesn’t have the same desire. He just wants mom and dad to pay for whatever he wants. I hate to give him a lot of money when my other son has been working really hard and hasn’t even earned that amount yet
-I even considered since he borrowed me 1/4 the buy-in, to give him 1/4 the winnings.
-It just seems like a lot of money to give him to save me the trouble of going to the ATM machine.

Thoughts? Comments?
Click to expand...
Honesty is the best policy.

Keep to your promise and trust in God.

Look at it this way, when you were thinking of winning two or three dollars you would have been happy to win that.

Now you have $23 more!! Why the sudden rationalizing.

Once one starts rationalizing something, that is usually a bad sign.

Keep to the truth and you can’t go wrong because God is Truth.
 
DW:

You cannot go back on your word, you said you would split the winnings with him, and so you should.
I even considered since he borrowed me 1/4 the buy-in, to give him 1/4 the winnings.
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This is correct. I think it is quite reasonable that if he put up 1/4 of the initial buy in and you were going to split the winnings, it is assumed that would besplit according to % of investment. I don’t know if this is how your son understood it to be, but this is usually how these things work. You gotta be careful though, b/c you run the risk of looking like a weasle and a welch to your son if he understood it differently. Of course, he may not care either way in the slightest and is just happy to have some extra $$ due to your good fortune (more likely, imo).

In addition, I think it would be quite easy to suggest to your son that he share his good fortune with his brother. Explain that his brother has been working hard…yada, yada, yada…and that it was by simple luck (or father’s card skillz) that he now has this extra cash. How nice it would be to let his brother share in his good fortune.
 
DW: My $0.02: Buy in was $20. You came home with $77. You won $57.

Absent another understanding, “split the winnings” is 50/50. You owe him $28.50.

If you really need the $28.50 to pay bills, tell him so and why and that you will repay the $28.50 when you get a chance.

I would give my son the $28.50 but split as follows:
1/2 ($14.25) goes right into the bank.
1/10 (2.85) goes into the collection plate or is donated to a charity
The remainder ($11.40) is his to spend as he wants. Go crazy.
 
You made a deal, now honor it. Give your son his half of your winnings, to do anything else teaches him much more about you (negatively) than any other lesson he could get. To do anything else is disgusting. What you do with your share of the winnings after that is your business.

BTW- if you had lost all- would you still be so quick to justify making sure he hadn’t lost all his “portion” ?
 
No matter what you do, try to avoid the association that gambling is free money- which is what will happen if you give him 600+% return on his 5 dollar “investment”
 
Mathematically speaking, he provided 1/4 of the capital, and so would only be entitled to 1/4 of the winnings, which amounts to $19.25 (a profit on his loan of $14.25).

Morally speaking, you said it and should keep your word. As a parent, who easily could have afforded the $20 & only borrowed it to save a stop at the atm machine, you may decide you are not really on the hook for the full amount. He definitely should get hi $5 back plus a little for doing you the favor. Whatever his other qualities may be, his generousity in giving you the money to save you the trouble when you asked deserves the promised reward.
 
On second thought-- you really gotta give him the whole amount. Otherwise you risk him feeling cheated, and will teach him that generosity is stupid rather than a virtue to be practiced. He’ll get enough of that in the world at large. He doesn’t need it reinforced at home.
 
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