Moral Dissident Marches On In Rochester, NY

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Arba Sicula:
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felra:
I think that there would be less confusion and more understanding of what the Church teaches if the burden wasn’t so much on the seeker alone. Finding the truth shouldn’t be the same as climbing Mt. Everest - one reaches the summit depending only on how hard he wants to reach it.
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You did give me a chuckle here – comparing “finding” and understanding Church teaching in matters of faith and morals on par with climbing Mt. Everest. We do live in the age of information where abundant sources for Church teaching is at the taking. But yes, I can your point …sitting poolside sipping a lemonade and reading the latest pamper magazine, troubled by what to order for dinner, … then, looking up at the snow covered peaks of any mountain slope can seem such an inconvenience. Exaggerated to make my point.

Again, how many folks are striving to find, know and live the truth?

“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough.” (Luke, Chapter 13:24)****
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.” (Matthew**, **Chapter 7:13-14)
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felra:
Arba Sicula:
Again, how many folks are striving to find, know and live the truth?
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The burden is entirely on them? Might the Church do more than say, “Here are lots of documents, go wade through them by yourself and find the truth, if you can.”?
I think it can do more.
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Arba Sicula:
Try another issue.
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OK, how about female ordination? The last Pope said the Church has no authority in the matter and the discussion is closed. Then, many keep questioning it and even dissenting from it. Why?

Does the Pope have to make a house call to each Catholic in America and explain to them why females may not be ordained?

We claim to adults, then act like children.
 
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felra:
Arba Sicula:
You did give me a chuckle here – comparing “finding” and understanding Church teaching in matters of faith and morals on par with climbing Mt. Everest. We do live in the age of information where abundant sources for Church teaching is at the taking. But yes, I can your point …sitting poolside sipping a lemonade and reading the latest pamper magazine, troubled by what to order for dinner, … then, looking up at the snow covered peaks of any mountain slope can seem such an inconvenience. Exaggerated to make my point.

Again, how many folks are striving to find, know and live the truth?
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Wish I had said all that. Well done.
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fix:
We claim to adults, then act like children.
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Okay, I gotcha. 'Go out, brother, and find the truth yourself. If you don’t or if you’re having trouble, don’t come around asking for help. You’re an adult, you don’t need anyone to help you."

Sigh…
 
Arba Sicula:
Okay, I gotcha. 'Go out, brother, and find the truth yourself. If you don’t or if you’re having trouble, don’t come around asking for help. You’re an adult, you don’t need anyone to help you."

Sigh…
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Charles Curran is among the last to go to for help and truth. Unfortunately not everyone knows this.

I wonder how much money he is being paid for his little presentation…a bag of 30 pieces of silver?
 
Arba Sicula:
Okay, I gotcha. 'Go out, brother, and find the truth yourself. If you don’t or if you’re having trouble, don’t come around asking for help. You’re an adult, you don’t need anyone to help you."

Sigh…
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I have agreed with you that many in the Church have failed at catechesis. There is plenty of blame to go around, but that does not let us off the hook completely.

In our society that is so educated and has such access to information one would be hard pressed to claim they cannot find answers to basic questions about the faith. How many have read the CCC? How many know the details about celebrity marriages, or what team is ranked higher, or what happened on some reality show last night? We make time for every secular nonsensical affair, yet expect the faith to be someone else’s job. The CCC says we have a serious obligation to form our consciences properly and learn the faith.

The CCC alone is a great place to start to find answers and grow deeper in faith. IMO, much of the issues with Catholics today are not about confusing hard to find answers so much as it is about a spirit of disobedience and a lack of zeal.
 
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bones_IV:
The writing on the wall reminds me of the passage in Daniel I think. Father Curran’s dissident ways remind me of what our blessed Lord writes at the Babylonians feast Tekel, tekel, mene upharsin maybe? Correct me if I’m wrong. The prophet then announces “God has judged your kingdom and finished it.”
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bones_IV:

Precisely - “MENE, TEKEL, and PERES (UH PARSIN) - MENE, God has numbered your kingdom and put an end to it; TEKEL, you have been weighed on the scales and found wanting; and PERES (UH PARSIN), your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and Persians.” Dan 5:25-28 NAB

The generation that used “The Spirit of Vatican II” to justify all sorts of abuses, heresies and apostasies is slowly going off the stage and being replaced by the generation who has been Catechized by John Paul II and who know that it’s the WORDS of Vatican II that count and have to be examined, not the “Spirit”.

The Church may have well weathered the storm. Pur Lord promised Peter and the other Apostles that the Gates of hel would not prevail against the Church, but that didn’t mean they wouldn’t open rather threateningly from time to time.

Blessed are they who defend the defenseless, Michael
 
Arba Sicula:
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felra:
The burden is entirely on them? Might the Church do more than say, “Here are lots of documents, go wade through them by yourself and find the truth, if you can.”?
I think it can do more.
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Arba Sicula and felra:

There is EWTN which now has a LOT of very good material on the Faith.

I just took a look at the network’s “Fall Line-up” - This TV is going to be tuned to EWTN a LOT!

A conservative Bishop has put out a “Compendium on the CCC” which uses more the Question and Answer Format and deals mainly with the basics and the issues of everyday life. It’s NOT a replacement for the CCC, but it’s an aid, and it’s better than what I’ve heard a lot of parishes around here using.

I also wonder what would happen if we had a little more instruction about the majesty and awe of God (Hebrew words “Chabod” and “Hashem”), so that people knew who it was we were eating and drinking, and who it was who wanted to call HIM “Daddy” (“ABBA” means “Daddy” - It’s what a child calls his or her Father).

I think it might also make a difference in the interest level.

In Christ, Michael
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Traditional Ang:
bones_IV:

Precisely - “MENE, TEKEL, and PERES (UH PARSIN) - MENE, God has numbered your kingdom and put an end to it; TEKEL, you have been weighed on the scales and found wanting; and PERES (UH PARSIN), your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and Persians.” Dan 5:25-28 NAB

The generation that used “The Spirit of Vatican II” to justify all sorts of abuses, heresies and apostasies is slowly going off the stage and being replaced by the generation who has been Catechized by John Paul II and who know that it’s the WORDS of Vatican II that count and have to be examined, not the “Spirit”.

The Church may have well weathered the storm. Pur Lord promised Peter and the other Apostles that the Gates of hel would not prevail against the Church, but that didn’t mean they wouldn’t open rather threateningly from time to time.

Blessed are they who defend the defenseless, Michael
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Father John Corapi pointed out that Vatican II didn’t change doctrine it was a general council. I personally think that Father Curran has the appearance of being a modern Martin Luther. I’ve been accused of anti-semitism, religious extremism, a basketcase, bomb terrorism I’ve been called worse than that. But the pharisees and scribes called Jesus the prince of demons. I really believe that there is a dark force trying to influence the Church by people who don’t think they are excommunicated. The same people who think that they don’t have to take responsibility for their sin. Traditional Ang, I think that the worst is yet to come. Now it is qoute “unconstitional” to say the pledge of allegiance now. Coincidence? I think not. It just goes to show you the consequences of the Protestant Reformation. A lot of those heresies such as deism, marxism, atheistic communism, nazism, fascism, absolute rationalism, rationalism, naturalism, nihilism, agnosticism, atheisism have its roots in the enlightenment period. Traditional Ang, it seems that mankind just doesn’t quite get it! Then to see that in the twentieth century Russia spread her errors throughout the world. Not to say Russia wasn’t consecrated, but Jesus did tell Sister Lucia “The consecration will an effect, but by then it will be too late.” I’m not trying to suggest anything. Consequently crosses, crucifixes, bibles, pictures of Jesus, ten commandment displays were purged from our public schools and now abortion euthanasia and homosexuality are made legal. I think many many more people will end up in hell than in heaven.
 
The discussion about Fr. Curran’s theological outlook is all well and good but I think we are getting away from the problem, namely what can be done to stop Fr. Curran from speaking in Rochester. Can anyone find a way to quickly contact the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome and CC a copy to Bishop Clark in Rochester so he knows that Rome knows. (it might spur him to do something)
 
Traditional Ang:
Arba Sicula and felra:

There is EWTN which now has a LOT of very good material on the Faith.
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Thanks, but I don’t have cable. Besides, EWTN isn’t full time here in NYC. It shares time with some non-Catholic networks.
 
Here we are three years later and nothing has changed in the Diocese of Rochester except it has gotten worse. Here we are in July and Father Charles Curran is again scheduled to descend on the unsuspecting faithful and put their souls at risk with his pompous dissent from Church teaching. The person he most criticized for having removed him as a Catholic Theologian is now our pope, but the bishop of Rochester is the same. And he will be taking off the month of July as usual, so Father Curran will slip in and do his damage. Diocesan bulletins are touting the lecture by a “noted moral theologian.” Maybe is should say “notorious (im?)moral theologian who has long overstayed his hackneyed rantings against the church”; but it should never say “Catholic” because he can’t be. So here is the question – what is an offended member of the laity to do with only two weeks remaining before he comes? How can people be warned of the risk to their souls without stirring up extra publicity for one of the people who hijacked the hope of Vatican II to his own agenda? I am looking for IDEAS! It pains me to sit passively by and do nothing.

Because this thread is so old, I am going to start a new one, and refer to this one. Hope that is okay.
 
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