Moral/Ethical dilemna - job related

[Deacon2Be]

Not sure if this is the right/best place to post this, but I need some advice quickly.

I interviewed for a job last week. The salary offered is 15% lower than what I make currently, but it is 90 minutes closer to home, and would allow me much more freedom in my schedule. I need the $, but there’s a lot to be said for saving 3 hours a day commuting. there’s also an opportunity to negotiate time off, bonus, etc. so the impact may not be as much as 15%. the interview went great, and I should hear something by Monday according to the head-hunter who I’ve been dealing with.

Flash forward to today. I get a call from a former co-worker at my current job. They want to know if I would sit down with them for an hour tomorrow and show them the ins & outs of the computer system we have here; as he’s been gone for a year now, and doesn’t remember all the details. He needs to know because he’s going on an interview Monday that requires knowledge of this specific computer program. He offered me $100 to sit with him for an hour at Starbucks tomorrow at lunchtime to show him all the details of this computer program. I agreed to do so tomorrow.

Well, you can guess where this is going…after speaking with him, I texted him back to ask where his interview was…he’s interviewing for the same job I did last week. Having spoken to the company last week, I know this guy doesn’t have the experience they need; and I’d hate for them to make the mistake of hiring him because he will come more cheaply than myself. He’s absolutely not ready for this job. I like the guy as a person, and obviously if he asked me for help, he respects me and my experience.

So, what do I do? Do I renege on my agreement to meet with him for the $100 and let him fly on Monday? Do I meet with him, educate him as much as I can, and let the interviwer determine if they think he’s a good fit?

Having spoken to the head-hunter today, I was told the CFO loves me, wants me, but wants to get approval from the owners, as my salary is higher than they want to pay. I do have the exact experience they are looking for.

Opinions of what I should do? Should I contact the head-hunter, tell them I know this guy’s going Monday, and he’s not right for the job? I just don’t know…

 

[ahs]

My personal opinion: Pray about it…about the whole situation and put it in God’s Hands. Meet with your friend like you said you would, and give him his 100 bucks worth of training. Do NOT call the head-hunter. Let them make that call on their own. Place it fully in God’s Hands and trust that you gave your interview your 100% and trust the fact that you and the future employer know your qulaifications vs. the other guy’s.

 

[Deacon2Be]

My personal opinion: Pray about it…about the whole situation and put it in God’s Hands. Meet with your friend like you said you would, and give him his 100 bucks worth of training. Do NOT call the head-hunter. Let them make that call on their own. Place it fully in God’s Hands and trust that you gave your interview your 100% and trust the fact that you and the future employer know your qulaifications vs. the other guy’s.

That’s a great answer. Thanks. My head is spinning right now…I need to keep it straight.

 

[Matt_Collins]

Should I contact the head-hunter, tell them I know this guy’s going Monday, and he’s not right for the job? I just don’t know…

DO NOT tell the head hunter that the other guy is not right for the job! He has just as much right to apply for the job as you do, and the only thing you will do is undermine your own reputation. If they want to hire a less experienced person for less money, that’s their right.

I get a call from a former co-worker at my current job. They want to know if I would sit down with them for an hour tomorrow and show them the ins & outs of the computer system we have here; as he’s been gone for a year now, and doesn’t remember all the details.

If what he wants is for you to reveal your current employer’s trade secrets, the answer is a resounding NO!!!, whether or not you previously agreed to do so.

If this is a commercial product used by many companies, and he just wants you to help him remember how to use it, then there’s nothing wrong with that.

He offered me $100 to sit with him for an hour at Starbucks tomorrow at lunchtime to show him all the details of this computer program. I agreed to do so tomorrow.

You are under no obligation to undermine your own application for the job by bringing a competitor up to speed. You made a verbal commitment based on incomplete knowledge of the situation, and now that you have more information, you are under no obligation to continue. However, you do have an obligation to tell him you’re not going to meet him. I don’t think you need to give him a reason, but if you do, don’t lie. Not even a “white lie”. But you don’t have to give him the whole story, either. I don’t think you want to tell him that you’ve already interviewed for the job he’s going for. That gives him the opportunity to undermine your application.

If I were in your situation, I would probably say “Jim, I can’t make it tomorrow, after all. Something has come up that I didn’t know about, and I just won’t be able to make it. I hope you can find someone else to give you a hand.” What has “come up”, of course, is that you have learned that he’s going for the same job.

Good luck! I hope it works out for you.

 

[ahs]

…You are under no obligation to undermine your own application for the job by bringing a competitor up to speed. You made a verbal commitment based on incomplete knowledge of the situation, and now that you have more information, you are under no obligation to continue. …

If I were in your situation, I would probably say “Jim, I can’t make it tomorrow, after all. Something has come up that I didn’t know about, and I just won’t be able to make it. I hope you can find someone else to give you a hand.” What has “come up”, of course, is that you have learned that he’s going for the same job.

Good luck! I hope it works out for you.

Hmm…this sounds very solid and reasonable (all of that post…just quoting the meat-and-potatoes). I’ll agree with Matt’s recommendation on backing out of the meeting.

 

[Deacon2Be]

DO NOT tell the head hunter that the other guy is not right for the job! He has just as much right to apply for the job as you do, and the only thing you will do is undermine your own reputation. If they want to hire a less experienced person for less money, that’s their right.

If what he wants is for you to reveal your current employer’s trade secrets, the answer is a resounding NO!!!, whether or not you previously agreed to do so.

If this is a commercial product used by many companies, and he just wants you to help him remember how to use it, then there’s nothing wrong with that.

You are under no obligation to undermine your own application for the job by bringing a competitor up to speed. You made a verbal commitment based on incomplete knowledge of the situation, and now that you have more information, you are under no obligation to continue. However, you do have an obligation to tell him you’re not going to meet him. I don’t think you need to give him a reason, but if you do, don’t lie. Not even a “white lie”. But you don’t have to give him the whole story, either. I don’t think you want to tell him that you’ve already interviewed for the job he’s going for. That gives him the opportunity to undermine your application.

If I were in your situation, I would probably say “Jim, I can’t make it tomorrow, after all. Something has come up that I didn’t know about, and I just won’t be able to make it. I hope you can find someone else to give you a hand.” What has “come up”, of course, is that you have learned that he’s going for the same job.

Good luck! I hope it works out for you.

Thanks. There are no trade secrets involved. It’s the same software he worked on a year ago when he was let go from this job here. He just hasn’t used it in a year, and the new job requires extensive knowledge of it. So it’s a refresher for him.

I think I’m going to meet him tomorrow & give him his hours worth. And I will pray. I will not do anything to undermine him. I do not think I will mention to him about having interviewed last week. I’ll just roll with it.

 

[ahs]

Thanks. There are no trade secrets involved. It’s the same software he worked on a year ago when he was let go from this job here. He just hasn’t used it in a year, and the new job requires extensive knowledge of it. So it’s a refresher for him.

I think I’m going to meet him tomorrow & give him his hours worth. And I will pray. I will not do anything to undermine him. I do not think I will mention to him about having interviewed last week. I’ll just roll with it.

Good luck, and I’ll be praying for you!

 

[Deacon2Be]

Hmmm…really? Cancel the meeting with him? Whatever I can teach him in an hour is not going to make a difference in his interview…I don’t believe. And if I don’t get the job, maybe he will…

 

[ahs]

Hmmm…really? Cancel the meeting with him? Whatever I can teach him in an hour is not going to make a difference in his interview…I don’t believe. And if I don’t get the job, maybe he will…

Go with what your “gut” tells you. I personally would meet with the other guy and spend the time with him. But Matt is right that you are not obligated to do so considering that you have realized that he is your competitor for a job.

 

[choose_to_love]

. . . and when your former co-worker doesn’t get the job, who is going to get blamed, when he finds out you did, OP? It is at least an appearance of a conflict of interest, so to speak, no? I think that is the reason I might want out of that commitment.

 

[Gorgias]

I texted him back to ask where his interview was…he’s interviewing for the same job I did last week.

So, what do I do? Do I renege on my agreement to meet with him for the $100 and let him fly on Monday? Do I meet with him, educate him as much as I can, and let the interviwer determine if they think he’s a good fit?

Well, if you really wanted to, you could text him back and say, “oh… I interviewed for that job, myself, last week!”. Then, see whether he still wants you to give him that refresher course.

(If you do train him, and then you end up getting the job, don’t you think that at least some little part of him will wonder whether your training effort was honest and complete?)

Having spoken to the head-hunter today, I was told the CFO loves me, wants me, but wants to get approval from the owners, as my salary is higher than they want to pay. I do have the exact experience they are looking for.

So, they ‘love’, ‘want’, and are ‘getting approval’ for you… while at the same time, continuing to interview other candidates? I’m thinking that the head-hunter is just telling you what you want to hear (and so, you really have no idea what the situation is, whether good or bad…).

 

[choose_to_love]

Hey Gorgias, great minds think alike, eh?

 

[Deacon2Be]

Well, if you really wanted to, you could text him back and say, “oh… I interviewed for that job, myself, last week!”. Then, see whether he still wants you to give him that refresher course. I already told him I’ll meet with him…I’ll do it and do what I can for him.

(If you do train him, and then you end up getting the job, don’t you think that at least some little part of him will wonder whether your training effort was honest and complete?) No I do not think that. He knows I have way more experience and knowledge than he does. Why do you think he’s coming to me for training?

So, they ‘love’, ‘want’, and are ‘getting approval’ for you… while at the same time, continuing to interview other candidates? I’m thinking that the head-hunter is just telling you what you want to hear (and so, you really have no idea what the situation is, whether good or bad…).

I think they are interviewing anyone who has a chance to stack up against me and would be willing to work for less money. this situation fits me perfectly (really…like 100% match except for the salary.) They are going to have to realize that if they really want a person that matches the qualifications they need, they are going to have to pay more than they want. If they want to settle, then it’s on them. There’s nothing more I can do

 

[1ke]

Hmmm…really? Cancel the meeting with him? Whatever I can teach him in an hour is not going to make a difference in his interview…I don’t believe. And if I don’t get the job, maybe he will…

I would disagree. It would give him enough of a refresher to make it appear as if he has a very good grasp on the software.

Personally, I would cancel.

 

[bilop]

So, they ‘love’, ‘want’, and are ‘getting approval’ for you… while at the same time, continuing to interview other candidates? I’m thinking that the head-hunter is just telling you what you want to hear (and so, you really have no idea what the situation is, whether good or bad…).

The HH may be BSing him, but not necessarily.

They may have set up interviews with other candidates before meeting Deacon2B. It is bad form to cancel an interview just b/c you found someone you like.

They also may want fallback options in case Deacon2B turns their offer down. If its a 15%paycut, they may be highly doubtful that you’ll accept, even if they 100% intend to make an offer.

God Bless and good luck!

 

[Deacon2Be]

The HH may be BSing him, but not necessarily.

They may have set up interviews with other candidates before meeting Deacon2B. It is bad form to cancel an interview just b/c you found someone you like.

They also may want fallback options in case Deacon2B turns their offer down. If its a 15%paycut, they may be highly doubtful that you’ll accept, even if they 100% intend to make an offer.

God Bless and good luck!

Positive thinking! Thanks!

 

[Matt_Collins]

. . . and when your former co-worker doesn’t get the job, who is going to get blamed, when he finds out you did, OP? It is at least an appearance of a conflict of interest, so to speak, no? I think that is the reason I might want out of that commitment.

Doh! I hadn’t even considered the conflict of interest from the former colleague’s point of view. Now that I do, I think you’re ethically obligated to back out, whether or not you think in your heart of hearts that you could give him an honest $100 training session. If you do train him, then you’re at least required to reveal the conflict of interest to him. But that would open you up to being undermined by him.

I really think the cleanest way, from both an ethical and a practical point of view is to back out like I suggested before.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Well, if you really wanted to, you could text him back and say, “oh… I interviewed for that job, myself, last week!”. Then, see whether he still wants you to give him that refresher course.

(If you do train him, and then you end up getting the job, don’t you think that at least some little part of him will wonder whether your training effort was honest and complete?)

So, they ‘love’, ‘want’, and are ‘getting approval’ for you… while at the same time, continuing to interview other candidates? I’m thinking that the head-hunter is just telling you what you want to hear (and so, you really have no idea what the situation is, whether good or bad…).

Having worked with one of these head-hunters…If they want you, they make an offer. If they are still interviewing, you may be on the short list but not high enough to make an offer and they are hedging their bets.

Apologies to any recruiters, but…I really despise that industry. Full of liars.

 

[Gorgias]

Hey Gorgias, great minds think alike, eh?

 

[on_the_hill]

I think you ought to tell your friend you already interviewed for the job.

If you have better qualifications and he knows it, that might dissuade him from interviewing himself.

If he interviews and they hire him, that’s their problem, not yours (aside from the fact that you didn’t get the job). You’re under no obligation to protect the interests of a company you don’t work for.

Now, it might be different if you were both ER doctors, and you knew he couldn’t put a band-aid on a scraped knee. But in a case like this, if they hire him, he’s what they wanted.