Moral Family Wedding Question

[Traci]

Hi Everyone,

Here’s the situation…

My brother (non-Catholic) was living with his girlfriend (non-practicing Catholic). He called and announced their engagement, then about 2 or 3 weeks later he called and announced they are expecting in March and are really excited.

My mom (devout Catholic) asked him to consider having a small wedding before the baby is born. He and his fiance refused. They are insisting on having the HUGE wedding in August, hundreds of people, big white dress…the whole deal (non-Catholic).

Here’s the question…

I feel like I need to support him, and their baby (it isn’t the baby’s fault), but I also feel like I morally can’t support his actions.

What would you do? Would you go to the wedding? Would you say something to him? Is it right to not go to the wedding and destroy my relationship with my brother and his new family?

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

 

[thechrismyster]

Hi Everyone,

Here’s the situation…

My brother (non-Catholic) was living with his girlfriend (non-practicing Catholic). He called and announced their engagement, then about 2 or 3 weeks later he called and announced they are expecting in March and are really excited.

My mom (devout Catholic) asked him to consider having a small wedding before the baby is born. He and his fiance refused. They are insisting on having the HUGE wedding in August, hundreds of people, big white dress…the whole deal (non-Catholic).

Here’s the question…

I feel like I need to support him, and their baby (it isn’t the baby’s fault), but I also feel like I morally can’t support his actions.

What would you do? Would you go to the wedding? Would you say something to him? Is it right to not go to the wedding and destroy my relationship with my brother and his new family?

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

never go against your family. never.
come hell or high water… never go against the family or take sides against your family.

if they make the right decision, support them, if they mess up, be right by their side.

thats my only advice.

he’s not a Catholic, you can’t expect him to believe what you do or act how you’d act. he’s his own person and will do his own thing. but he’s your brother through everything. stay close to him, in the end, family is all we have in this world.

good luck.

 

[mchale]

The situation is unfortunate and all too common these days. I think the question you should ask yourself is this; would you have had a problem going to the wedding if he and his fiance were not expecting before the wedding? Ultimately, we have to recognize that most couples getting married these days are not practicing chastity before marriage. Granted the baby is a more visible sign, but it doesn’t change the particulars of the situation much at all. Try to look at it from the perspective that at least they are getting married and hopefully God will give them the grace to live a more virtuous life.

–
Bill

 

[kage_ar]

If your future SIL is Catholic, use the time to encourage her to come back to her Faith. Invite her to Mass, bring her a Rosary, etc.

Having a baby is NOT a reason to rush a marriage, in many cases, a Priest will not marry a couple until after the baby is born (the pregnancy could be seen as a way of forcing the couple to get married and COULD have an impact on the validity of a marriage).

Let your future SIL know that she can ask for a dispensation to marry outside of the Church - let her see the graces a that come from a valid sacremental marriage. They both have a chance to enter into a valid marriage, do everything you can to encourage that!

 

[mosher]

Hi Everyone,

Here’s the situation…

My brother (non-Catholic) was living with his girlfriend (non-practicing Catholic). He called and announced their engagement, then about 2 or 3 weeks later he called and announced they are expecting in March and are really excited.

My mom (devout Catholic) asked him to consider having a small wedding before the baby is born. He and his fiance refused. They are insisting on having the HUGE wedding in August, hundreds of people, big white dress…the whole deal (non-Catholic).

Here’s the question…

I feel like I need to support him, and their baby (it isn’t the baby’s fault), but I also feel like I morally can’t support his actions.

What would you do? Would you go to the wedding? Would you say something to him? Is it right to not go to the wedding and destroy my relationship with my brother and his new family?

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

I went through a similar situation with my father and I will in the future go through a similar situation with my brother. In both instances they were raised catholic but don’t practice but the Church still considers them catholic because they have not formally separated from the Church through writing the Bishop.

In the case of my father I did not go to the wedding. There were hurt feelings for a short time but in less than a year it was gotten over.

With my brother I think it will be more serious but unless he is married in the Church I will also not attend his wedding.

It has not brought me great joy to stand up for the faith and the dignity of the Sacrament of Matrimony but it is my obligation to uphold the truth over and above the sentimentalities of individuals even if they be family. Remember, Christ foretold this when He said that because of Him members of a family will be set at odds against each other.

The integrity of the faith and the integrity of truth is always prior to the integrity of the family or friendships. It is not easy but it is the right thing to do.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

The action you can’t support is a fait accompli. Your brother is going to be a dad, and he’s not married to the mom.

Your brother is marrying the mother of his child. That’s a good thing. No matter how small the wedding is, you would presumably be invited. Mothers are one thing, but I don’t know of any circumstances where the future BIL or SIL is consulted as to the preferred size of the wedding. Your job, always, is to show up, help in whatever way you are asked, and share the joy that they’re finally stepping up to the plate.

The only exception to this is if the future spouse is so criminally wrong for your sibling that you feel morally bound to do whatever you can to stop the wedding in order to spare your sibling a life of abuse, even if it means destroying your relationship with your sibling in the process.

Your brother is non-Catholic, you say? Didn’t your mom, the devout Catholic, have him baptized? What’s with that? This sounds like a secular wedding of two non-practicing Catholics to me. It is not as if he’d have to be baptized to return to the Church, right?

Go to their wedding, preserve the relationship, and when the baby comes, encourage them to return to the Church to have their marriage blessed and to have the baby baptized. That is something you should definitely bring up.

 

[mrs_abbott]

never go against your family. never.
come hell or high water… never go against the family or take sides against your family.

if they make the right decision, support them, if they mess up, be right by their side.

thats my only advice.

. . . in the end, family is all we have in this world.

I totally agree!
Love the sinner, hate the sin.

 

[MilesXpisti]

Is the wedding sacramental? That is, will it be a valid wedding in the eyes of the Church? If no, I wouldn’t go. As I’ve heard it said before, if God will not be there, neither will I.

 

[Traci]

The situation is unfortunate and all too common these days. I think the question you should ask yourself is this; would you have had a problem going to the wedding if he and his fiance were not expecting before the wedding? Ultimately, we have to recognize that most couples getting married these days are not practicing chastity before marriage. Granted the baby is a more visible sign, but it doesn’t change the particulars of the situation much at all. Try to look at it from the perspective that at least they are getting married and hopefully God will give them the grace to live a more virtuous life.

–
Bill

Thank you everyone for your responses, I really appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut!

Hi Bill, thanks again for your thoughts. You know, this is one of the things I feel so guilty about, is that when I found out they were living together I feel like I should have voiced my faith at that point. I found out when I called his house and they were both on the answering machine. Part of me feels like I failed to defend and uphold my faith by not saying anything at the time, and now it is much worse. I think that is why I am so torn. I love my brother and our relationship and want to support him but something about it is making me feel terrible guilty about it, like I am letting God and Catholics down by not voicing or standing for what I believe.

 

[Traci]

If your future SIL is Catholic, use the time to encourage her to come back to her Faith. Invite her to Mass, bring her a Rosary, etc.

I live in Idaho and they are in Virginia! I wish we were closer to each other, maybe I could have a better influence!

Having a baby is NOT a reason to rush a marriage, in many cases, a Priest will not marry a couple until after the baby is born (the pregnancy could be seen as a way of forcing the couple to get married and COULD have an impact on the validity of a marriage).

call me harsh, but honestly part of me feels like they already rushed into a marriage by living together and conceiving a child together…for me they made their decision already!

Let your future SIL know that she can ask for a dispensation to marry outside of the Church - let her see the graces a that come from a valid sacremental marriage. They both have a chance to enter into a valid marriage, do everything you can to encourage that!

How do I know if the marriage is sacramental…? They are getting married in a sort of church on his campus, and I don’t know what kind of pastor they are going to bring in for it?

Do you think it would be offensive for me to tell them their marriage isn’t going to be valid and talk to her about getting a dispensation to marry outside the church? I don’t think they care or even understand that it wouldn’t be sacramental…!

 

[Traci]

I went through a similar situation with my father and I will in the future go through a similar situation with my brother. In both instances they were raised catholic but don’t practice but the Church still considers them catholic because they have not formally separated from the Church through writing the Bishop.

In the case of my father I did not go to the wedding. There were hurt feelings for a short time but in less than a year it was gotten over.

With my brother I think it will be more serious but unless he is married in the Church I will also not attend his wedding.

It has not brought me great joy to stand up for the faith and the dignity of the Sacrament of Matrimony but it is my obligation to uphold the truth over and above the sentimentalities of individuals even if they be family. Remember, Christ foretold this when He said that because of Him members of a family will be set at odds against each other.

The integrity of the faith and the integrity of truth is always prior to the integrity of the family or friendships. It is not easy but it is the right thing to do.

Thanks for your reply! I can’t get that verse off of my mind. How because of Christ families would be set a odds. I agree with you, but at the same time I feel like maybe if I perserved our relationship then I could be a better example for them.

Also, I don’t want to “punish” my new soon-to-be nephew either, he had no control over the situation in which he was concieved. If I don’t go to the wedding and breach the relationship with my brother, I won’t be able to have a relationship with my nephew either.

I am so torn!

 

[Traci]

Your brother is non-Catholic, you say? Didn’t your mom, the devout Catholic, have him baptized? What’s with that? This sounds like a secular wedding of two non-practicing Catholics to me. It is not as if he’d have to be baptized to return to the Church, right?

My brothers and I were all baptized and confirmed in the Lutheran Church. My mom was a cradle Catholic but left the faith to “compromise” with my Dad who is anti-Catholic. So were were all raised Catholic. My Mom has since returned to the Church after we all grew up and I went through RCIA in college.

So I don’t think it will be secular (unless that means anything outside the Catholic Church) and I think the wedding would be sacramental if they do it Lutheran, right?!?!? But they have been “church shopping” lately so I have no idea what faith they will be married in, and I don’t know if any other faith’s marriages are considered sacramental?!?!?!

 

[KCT]

In a similar situation, a wise priest told me, “Do whatever your mom does. If she goes, go and support her. If she stays home, stay home and support her.” —KCT

 

[Traci]

In a similar situation, a wise priest told me, “Do whatever your mom does. If she goes, go and support her. If she stays home, stay home and support her.” —KCT

ha ha ha…My Mom and I have had a multitude of conversations over the last couple weeks and have been discussing what we should do…! I don’t know what she’s going to do yet either!!!

 

[kage_ar]

In no way am I a canon law expert, but, from hanging around some big brains - my understanding is this:

If your future SIL is Catholic (practicing or not), she is bound by the Canon Law of the Catholic Church in regard to marriage. This means that she is bound to marry in the Catholic Church or recieve a dispensation from her local Bishop to have the wedding in another church. The non-Catholic (your brother) is not bound by the form of the Church, but, she is. The catch is “unless she has left the Catholic Church by a formal act” - and the definition of what entails a “formal act”. From my understandnig, it is a very formal act, including notification to your Bishop in writing…

If you go to the archived shows of CA live and find one of the “Ask a Canon Lawyer” programs, there are always questions similar to yours answered during those programs.

Be a good, loving example of Christ’s love always. Praying for you!

 

[Traci]

If your future SIL is Catholic (practicing or not), she is bound by the Canon Law of the Catholic Church in regard to marriage.

Thank you for the information…do you know if she is bound by the Canon Law if she was baptized but not confirmed???

 

[MilesXpisti]

My brothers and I were all baptized and confirmed in the Lutheran Church. My mom was a cradle Catholic but left the faith to “compromise” with my Dad who is anti-Catholic. So were were all raised Catholic. My Mom has since returned to the Church after we all grew up and I went through RCIA in college.

So I don’t think it will be secular (unless that means anything outside the Catholic Church) and I think the wedding would be sacramental if they do it Lutheran, right?!?!? But they have been “church shopping” lately so I have no idea what faith they will be married in, and I don’t know if any other faith’s marriages are considered sacramental?!?!?!

If both she and your brother were non-Catholic, and baptized, then the Church I believe would consider the marriage sacramental. But if she is still formally part of the Church (baptized and never formally excommunicated), and she doesn’t have the permission of her bishop, or is not married in a Catholic Church where a priest would validate the marriage, then no, it will not be sacramental.

 

[kage_ar]

Thank you for the information…do you know if she is bound by the Canon Law if she was baptized but not confirmed???

Another good question for a real Canon expert - and that would not be me… I’ll PM you with a place where you will have a good chance of bumping into one Kage

 

[mosher]

Thanks for your reply! I can’t get that verse off of my mind. How because of Christ families would be set a odds. I agree with you, but at the same time I feel like maybe if I perserved our relationship then I could be a better example for them.

Also, I don’t want to “punish” my new soon-to-be nephew either, he had no control over the situation in which he was concieved. If I don’t go to the wedding and breach the relationship with my brother, I won’t be able to have a relationship with my nephew either.

I am so torn!

Like I tell my servers. When you are serving and you discern mortal sin on your conscience do not receive communion. Even though you feel that people will think poorly of you. Rather it is a greater witness to the faith to do the hard thing and not receive communion. I think that this example will explain my reasoning on the subject.

Keep death in mind when making any decision. What would you rather tell Christ? Would you rather say that you stood with His truth to the end or try to justify why you did not? Is it better to take a stand for the faith making witness to your brother that he is placing his immortal soul in jeopardy or allow for him to persevere in sin without anyone telling him otherwise? To me this sounds like an opportunity to be a white martyr the question is do you trust Christ to soften His heart after you take a stand or do you let the moment pass and just try to be a nice guy?

 

[BLB_Oregon]

What would you rather tell Christ? Would you rather say that you stood with His truth to the end or try to justify why you did not? Is it better to take a stand for the faith making witness to your brother that he is placing his immortal soul in jeopardy or allow for him to persevere in sin without anyone telling him otherwise? To me this sounds like an opportunity to be a white martyr the question is do you trust Christ to soften His heart after you take a stand or do you let the moment pass and just try to be a nice guy?

I think there are ways other than making your objection part of the public record or letting the topic pass without comment.

As an example, use the interchange recorded in John when Jesus met the woman at the well. He made the point about her living situation, but He did not dwell on it. He had bigger fish to fry. Likewise, He stayed with the woman caught in the act of adultery until all her accusers drifted away. Only when He had her alone did He charge her: Go, and sin no more. The only ones who got His public criticism were those who improperly held themselves up, in public, as examples of holiness and righteousness. He ate and drank with prostitutes and tax collectors, did He not? You have to call a sin a sin, but you also have to meet fellow sinners where they are.

You agree to go to the wedding, but encourage your brother and future sister-in-law to make it a Catholic wedding or to have it blessed by in the Church, should that first opportunity go by. You can encourage them to have their child baptized. You can tell them that you pray for them in their vocations of spouse and parent every day (without making any comments indicating that you coach God about the best way to do that).

Tell them that you are happy that they are marrying and making their commitment to each other public and binding, not just upon each other, but upon everyone else. They are doing a good thing, regardless of whether they are doing everything you might hope. Give them credit for that, and likewise encourage them in all they do that is right, especially if they inspire you in any way.