Moral obligation to tell husband of wife's attempted adultery?

[MJJean]

I’ll try to make a long story short, so bear with me.

My DH has been friends with B since they were in their early 20’s. So, about 16-17 years or so. I don’t know exactly when they met since they were friends for a while before DH and I met. They don’t see each other but a few times a year now due to DH’s work and family obligations. They text or talk here and there.

B began dating a girl named C. They were together for a over 5 years when they married, which would have been about 6-8 years ago.

In February, my DH went to visit B. They played some video games, talked and had a few drinks. B told DH that he was having a hard time because he recently told his wife that he loves her, but is not in love with her anymore.

I think part of it is that they have lived with her mother since they were dating and throughout their marriage. It’s hard to grow up when you’ve literally never left home. Hard to take on the role of head of household when your wife’s mother already has that job .

Also, B wants a child or two and C has been putting it off. She and I have talked here and there. I get the impression she would prefer to remain childless, but she has recently stopped using ABC and is “letting fate decide” if she gets pregnant or not. She’s in her mid-30’s and B is in his early 40’s, so there is a bit of a time crunch. All things considered, I think she may be somewhat willing to have a baby, should she become pregnant, just because she knows B wants one.

C came home and joined them after they’d been talking for a while, so we don’t know what B is thinking. We don’t know if he wants to work on the marriage or end it. DH didn’t have time before they were interrupted to ask or to offer any advice such as moving to their own place (they have substantial savings…more than enough to put a decent down payment on a house or even buy one outright) and maybe going to counseling or just doing things to remind themselves why they married in the first place.

Everything was fine until B went and laid down on the couch. He fell asleep, leaving C and my DH at the kitchen table. At that point, they started talking about B. Expected, really since they’ve never been friends other than some bonding over their mutual love of B. C said she is worried for him, that he’s been a bit depressed lately, etc. Then she started to show some seriously inappropriate body language. Moving closer and closer, leaning in, touching, etc. DH got uncomfortable. C then took his hand and started playing with his palm in a suggestive way. Between that and the vibe, DH is pretty certain she was trying to seduce him. He shut that down real fast with a few unkind words. Which I think were totally warranted.

DH loves B. He says that he has seen some “rot” in B and C and he would like to help them get their lives straight, but doesn’t think he can. DH thinks they’ll have to work it out themselves. Fair enough.

DH also feels that he can no longer be B’s friend. He says that he doesn’t feel comfortable with them anymore and that he’d either have to tell B what C did or feel bad knowing what he knows and not telling. He’s said he wouldn’t be comfortable around C at all and that he has lost any respect he ever had for her.

I said that what she tried was pretty obvious, but nothing she couldn’t explain away. “Oh, I was just being friendly/caring/comforting.” That type of thing. I don’t think B would believe him without something more definitive and I’m pretty sure C wouldn’t cop to it.

I told DH to try to maintain his friendship, keep his mouth shut, let them work out their own marital drama, and just be there for B whatever happens. I also told him I am no longer comfortable with him going to their house and that while I trust him, I do not want him to ever, ever, ever be alone with her again. Really just to avoid any appearance of impropriety and any possible cause of doubt for everyone.

DH isn’t sure what he’s going to do but he’s very sad thinking he lost his friend because of his friends wife’s behavior.

Does DH have a moral obligation to tell B? Should he end the friendship, tellwhat happened and see if it does any good, or keep his mouth shut, stay friends, and avoid C as much as possible? (His avoid C plan is to meet B for lunch or whatever at a neutral location without C present, which I think would eventually fail because C is known to either come with B or randomly show up where B is when she gets bored.)

 

[Kelfa28]

Personally?
I think your husband does have an obligation to tell B.

That is my own opinion on the matter. The Church is another story entirely and I’m sure there are posters and priests far more versed in Catechism then I am that could weigh in on the issue at hand.

Probably a good idea to through in there that this is definitely something your husband should bring up to a priest…in terms of what he should do.

Your husband did not sin. She did.

My husband was involved in a VERY similar situation with your husband but this happened a long time ago before the two of us met.

His best friend, from childhood, got married at a young age and with a months long courtship to a girl my husband never really liked.

They had issues in their marriage from the very beginning. They also couldn’t have any children.
The marriage began to break down after a couple of years. Neither of them could manage a household and they fought quite a bit. My husband tried to be friendly and be cordial with his friend’s wife.
That was until my husband joined the Army, left for basic and gave his address to his best friend to write. His wife got a hold of the address and began to send him letters herself that were filled with very inappropriate innuendo and that she had feelings for him and what he thought.
He never wrote her back and felt so uncomfortable that he stopped contacting his best friend too but never told either of them why.
Weirdly enough, she wrote an apology letter, retracting a lot of her statements but he still never contacted either of them.

They did get divorced shortly after he left basic and AIT. He and his best friend rekindled their friendship a short time later but I don’t think they ever spoke about it.
His best friend got remarried to a wonderful young lady and they have three kids, a nice house and are both very happy.

 

[St_Pancake]

I wouldn’t say a thing. While she might have been inappropriate, nothing sexual happened. What if telling about it is what tips the scale and they divorce? That isn’t something I would want to be a part.

 

[agnes_therese]

There’s more wrong with this marriage than C putting the moves on another man. She’s in her 30’s, he’s in his 40’s, and they’re living with her mother? And he wants to have a child when they either can’t or won’t establish their own household?

I think if DH is going to say anything, he should just follow up with B’s statement and ask if they’ve considered marriage counseling. And, as you said, he shouldn’t be alone with her again.

 

[St_Francis]

C should definitely NOT tell B about the incident. Who knows what was going on in her mind? She may have been a bit over her limit or just tired, and not really thinking what she was doing.

Telling B would make a mess of their marriage no matter what her intentions were. It would destroy a trust which ought to be there. If she looks at her actions and takes them as a sign to pull herself together, then destroying that trust would be incredibly destructive.

And finally, if he told his friend, there’s a good chance the friendship would end forever. Esp if B and his wife ended up working things out.

I have figured out (through experience) never to really say anything other than helpful words, and if they don’t seem to be helping, suggesting a counselor. Anything else can all too easily end a friendship.

 

[porthos11]

There is one thing DH needs to be aware of. Detraction, which is objectively sinful.

Unless there is a serious reason, we are not permitted to reveal the sins of others, even if it’s the truth. The reason is that every person has a right to his good name, which we are not allowed to destroy without good reason. To break this can be mortally sinful.

Whether or not this reason exists is for the DH to determine. My own gut tells me no, there is no good reason to do so in this case, and that DH risks serious sin if he actually does tell B.

 

[MJJean]

There is one thing DH needs to be aware of. Detraction, which is objectively sinful.

Unless there is a serious reason, we are not permitted to reveal the sins of others, even if it’s the truth. The reason is that every person has a right to his good name, which we are not allowed to destroy without good reason. To break this can be mortally sinful.

Whether or not this reason exists is for the DH to determine. My own gut tells me no, there is no good reason to do so in this case, and that DH risks serious sin if he actually does tell B.

His motivation would be for B to understand what he is dealing with and be able to make an informed decision regarding trying to work it out with a full understanding of what he is working out or to end the marriage.

 

[porthos11]

His motivation would be for B to understand what he is dealing with and be able to make an informed decision regarding trying to work it out with a full understanding of what he is working out or to end the marriage.

1. Is it DH’s place to do so?
2. Does the risk of permanently destroying this marriage justify smearing C’s good name, especially to whom it should matter most (B)?
   (And yes, despite what she’s done, C is still entitled to her good name, as is everyone else).

Perhaps it can be argued that B has the right to know (I myself don’t buy that), but even if we were to concede that point, does it belong to DH to meet that right?

I’m not saying DH should or should not. Really, these questions can be answered by him and him alone and he has to make the decision. The only point I’m trying to make is that “B has the right to know” is not sufficient reason to destroy a person, and that there can actually be sin involved. He has to discern this decision himself.

 

[Walking_Home]

There’s more wrong with this marriage than C putting the moves on another man. She’s in her 30’s, he’s in his 40’s, and they’re living with her mother? And he wants to have a child when they either can’t or won’t establish their own household?

I think if DH is going to say anything, he should just follow up with B’s statement and ask if they’ve considered marriage counseling. And, as you said, he shouldn’t be alone with her again.

---

Ditto.

 

[Irishmom2]

Unless there is a serious reason, we are not permitted to reveal the sins of others, even if it’s the truth.

Where does that come from? So if someone personally witnesses something “bad” they should not tell the spouse?

Technically all this woman did was hold your husband’s hand for a few seconds,
If your husband wants to tell his friend, I certainly understand that, but he needs to tread delicately. My suggestion is for your husband to take the brunt of the situation rather than put if on his friend’s wife

Your husband can be honest and say that all she did was hold his hand and nothing happened but it “just didn’t feel right.” .

This woman did more than just hold his hand. Read the OP’s post again.

What she did was enough to make a man feel uncomfortable.
Why should he take the brunt of it or act like it was no big deal when it obviously was? No one suggested that the OP’s husband should accuse the wife of anything. But stating what she did do is a different thing.

 

[St_Pancake]

Where does that come from? So if someone personally witnesses something “bad” they should not tell the spouse?

This woman did more than just hold his hand. Read the OP’s post again.

What she did was enough to make a man feel uncomfortable.
Why should he take the brunt of it or act like it was no big deal when it obviously was? No one suggested that the OP’s husband should accuse the wife of anything. But stating what she did do is a different thing.

The original poster stated that it was likely all her actions could be explained away.

As for me, it’s just been by the grace of God that I haven’t been put into a position to destroy my marriage. I’m not willing to push accusations at one that might finish their marriage.

Their marriage sounds like it’s headed for disaster that can only be averted by God. What if we all said a rosary for this couple. I’ve seen God do more with less.

 

[Irishmom2]

Then she started to show some seriously inappropriate body language. Moving closer and closer, leaning in, touching, etc. DH got uncomfortable. C then took his hand and started playing with his palm in a suggestive way. Between that and the vibe, DH is pretty certain she was trying to seduce him. He shut that down real fast with a few unkind words. Which I think were totally warranted.

I said that what she tried was pretty obvious, but nothing she couldn’t explain away. “Oh, I was just being friendly/caring/comforting.” That type of thing. I don’t think B would believe him without something more definitive and I’m pretty sure C wouldn’t cop to it.

The original poster stated that it was likely all her actions could be explained away.

I don’t think her behavior could be explained away, but that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t at least try.

 

[porthos11]

Where does that come from? So if someone personally witnesses something “bad” they should not tell the spouse?

The Catechism (2477). If course you won’t find “you should not tell a spouse”, only that detraction is the telling of a truth that can seriously damage a person’s reputation without a just and serious reason, and is gravely sinful. Is there a serious reason here? Maybe. Maybe not. Each case is different. If she was inappropriately touching his hand while suggesting they bomb a theatre or murder the husband, then there’s your serious reason. A mere “the husband has a right to know” is debatable and may not constitute serious enough reason.

This woman did more than just hold his hand. Read the OP’s post again.

What she did was enough to make a man feel uncomfortable.
Why should he take the brunt of it or act like it was no big deal when it obviously was? No one suggested that the OP’s husband should accuse the wife of anything. But stating what she did do is a different thing.

And if it results in a divorce? Or it publicizes, true or not, a reputation of the woman as a sl-- or wh— or something equally distasteful? Then again, there may or may not be a reason. Maybe they should divorce. Or maybe there’s a more serious reason that take precedence over the loss of a good name. Only the person can determine that.

2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

- of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;

• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

2479 **Detraction **and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.

All I’m saying is, be careful. I’m a sinner myself, and I have sins I would rather keep secret from everyone, except my confessor. I would rather treat a fellow sinner the same way I would want to be treated.

 

[MJJean]

In response to the hand holding comment/query, she took his hand and started playing with his fingers. He said he was in shock and felt like a deer in headlights. He didn’t know what to do. He said he remembers thinking that this couldn’t be happening while being sad and hurt that she would do such a thing and then thinking “Someone should stop this.” Then she started tracing patterns on his palm with her fingers which is when he snapped out of it and then snapped at her.

Most of us would think that the behavior was inappropriate.

Besmirch her reputation for no good reason? I don’t know. I think trust is a pretty big deal in a marriage and B should know that his wife may not be trustworthy. They can’t fix what neither knows or admits is broken. And maybe they can’t move on without knowing, either.

I also wonder about possible pregnancy. She’s only been off ABC for about 8 months or so. If she behaved this way with my DH, one of B’s oldest and closest friends who is also married and has kids, then there is a decent chance she has done it before or will again. Maybe someone takes her up on the offer and she becomes pregnant with another man’s child. Maybe she gets an STI.

So, I do think we have good enough reason to tell him and avoid sinning in the telling. I just wonder if we are obligated to either way and want to gather some opinions of people of good moral character who aren’t close to the people involved.

 

[whm]

I would want to know. The friendship is going to strained anyway at this point. I would want my friend to tell me. It is then my choice to confront my wife directly or indirectly.

If I lost a friend by telling him the truth I could live with that. If withheld it and the wife did something else with somebody else to hurt my friend that would be hard to live with.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

In response to the hand holding comment/query, she took his hand and started playing with his fingers. He said he was in shock and felt like a deer in headlights. He didn’t know what to do. He said he remembers thinking that this couldn’t be happening while being sad and hurt that she would do such a thing and then thinking “Someone should stop this.” Then she started tracing patterns on his palm with her fingers which is when he snapped out of it and then snapped at her.

Most of us would think that the behavior was inappropriate.

Besmirch her reputation for no good reason? I don’t know. I think trust is a pretty big deal in a marriage and B should know that his wife may not be trustworthy. They can’t fix what neither knows or admits is broken. And maybe they can’t move on without knowing, either.

I also wonder about possible pregnancy. She’s only been off ABC for about 8 months or so. If she behaved this way with my DH, one of B’s oldest and closest friends who is also married and has kids, then there is a decent chance she has done it before or will again. Maybe someone takes her up on the offer and she becomes pregnant with another man’s child. Maybe she gets an STI.

So, I do think we have good enough reason to tell him and avoid sinning in the telling. I just wonder if we are obligated to either way and want to gather some opinions of people of good moral character who aren’t close to the people involved.

Nope nope nope. It is most definitely not your DH’s place to say anything, and if he does, it will do more harm than good. She has plausible deniability, and she intentionally went just far enough that she would. Your husband will look like an insane, bitter liar once his friend’s wife is done telling her version of things. Think about it, if B is any kind of husband, he will listen to his wife over his friend.

Now what your husband does have a moral obligation to do is stay the heck away from C. Your husband is a married man and it is his responsibility to stay completely away from women who behave inappropriately towards him. He doesn’t need to announce to B why, but he does need to avoid social situations where she will be present. If he’s over at B’s house again and she comes home, he needs to quickly leave and coldly say hello to her on his way out. If asked, he should never say more than ‘I just don’t feel comfortable around her anymore’ to his friend. If pressed he can say “Look, I don’t feel comfortable around her anymore. It isn’t my place to get into it, but I just can’t spend time with her”. Not only is that the right thing for your husband to do by his marriage, it will make far more of an impression on B if he knows that suddenly his best friend doesn’t feel comfortable around his wife but no one is willing to verbalize why.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I’d tell.

So nothing really happened, I get that. But there is no doubt from that behavior that C is very vulnerable to the sin of adultery, and B needs to know that. He needs to know it now while there is still a window of opportunity to get the marriage back on track. Telling B now is about helping to save the marriage, if it can be saved. Do nothing, B may not know what’s going on, chances are good she’ll fall to temptation somewhere else. Once upon a time, I didn’t tell a valued friend and mentor his wife was cheating on him. I lost his friendship over it and had to leave the department we were in because the atmosphere between us became so poisonous. So if I’m friends with the guy, I’m never not telling him. If it’s a stranger, I’ll mind my own business.

 

[underacloud]

I said that what she tried was pretty obvious, but nothing she couldn’t explain away. “Oh, I was just being friendly/caring/comforting.” That type of thing. I don’t think B would believe him without something more definitive and I’m pretty sure C wouldn’t cop to it.

If B is unlikely to believe your husband, then there really isn’t much to be gained from telling. It would put great strain on the friendship, with no likely benefit for the marriage - or, it could place strain on the marriage too.

I think your husband could be greater help to them if he keeps quiet on this. It sounds like C is starved of male affection, and was seeking a moment of that from your husband (completely inappropriate of course). B needs to step up if he wants to save/improve his marriage. I’m sure your husband can help him see this without directly raising the incident in question.

I told DH to try to maintain his friendship, keep his mouth shut, let them work out their own marital drama, and just be there for B whatever happens. I also told him I am no longer comfortable with him going to their house and that while I trust him, I do not want him to ever, ever, ever be alone with her again. Really just to avoid any appearance of impropriety and any possible cause of doubt for everyone.

I agree with this approach. Stay friends and try to help them as much as possible, while avoiding contact with C.

 

[HouseArrest]

Nope nope nope. It is most definitely not your DH’s place to say anything, and if he does, it will do more harm than good. She has plausible deniability, and she intentionally went just far enough that she would. Your husband will look like an insane, bitter liar once his friend’s wife is done telling her version of things. Think about it, if B is any kind of husband, he will listen to his wife over his friend.

Now what your husband does have a moral obligation to do is stay the heck away from C. Your husband is a married man and it is his responsibility to stay completely away from women who behave inappropriately towards him. He doesn’t need to announce to B why, but he does need to avoid social situations where she will be present. If he’s over at B’s house again and she comes home, he needs to quickly leave and coldly say hello to her on his way out. If asked, he should never say more than ‘I just don’t feel comfortable around her anymore’ to his friend. If pressed he can say “Look, I don’t feel comfortable around her anymore. It isn’t my place to get into it, but I just can’t spend time with her”. Not only is that the right thing for your husband to do by his marriage, it will make far more of an impression on B if he knows that suddenly his best friend doesn’t feel comfortable around his wife but no one is willing to verbalize why.

Ditto

 

[Demetra2]

I would advise the OP’s husband to NOT say anything at this point in time. The marriage appears to be breaking down and the friend’s wife may be “using” this situation to speed it up. The friend is probably well aware that his wife has issues. To say something now might wreck the friendship. Stay away from this couple for a while and if you must get together the OP should accompany her husband and stay quite close by and only get together in a public place for a short period of time. Also talk to a priest. The OP"s husband may want to suggest marriage counseling if the right opportunity presents itself but that is all.