Moral obligation to vote

[catholictiger]

alright so one of my good friends and I are having a debate on facebook even though I’m trying to dodge it as much as possible while still commenting

but this guy very very very catholic and very very very smart believes its justified to deiced to vote if there is the lesser of two evils.

here are things in its context i’m not going to include every post just the ones which show his positions

just to clear thigns up we are talking about the louisiana senate election

No. The faithful are permitted to refuse to vote when the strain on the conscience is too much in light of the choice between grave evils. Most Catholics are too politicized to allow their conscience to be pricked this way. This is especially true of the sensationalist rhetoric of the whores of the pro-life movement, who always overstate the good of candidates they know will not end abortion while ignoring the ways the things which possess their attention devalue human life.

USCCB’s faithful citizenship document acknowledges the position I am taking, and I am suggesting it is a far more prudent and wholesome way of working towards reform than voting for bad candidates.

I respond by saying I see what you say and simply saying I pretty clearly know what i’m voting for on tuesday and he responds like this

well they are well known, inconsistent with the statements of the USCCB, politicized beyond what is appropriate for clergy. I assume it is pretty clear to you that the whoremonger-warmonger enemy of the poor and the immigrant who endorsed a pro-abort for president is a trustworthy guy to end abortion. And if so, you are foolish.

Most American priests can’t get past their particular line of Americanism to support the whole of Catholic social teaching. This makes a whole lot of folks parading as orthodox actually heterodox and harmful. You can always discern a liberal nut as a fraud who doesn’t care about orthodoxy. It’s these people who masquerade as faithful that are much more dangerous due to the subtlety of their deception.

then some guy (different guy) says there is a history of pacifism in the church and becuase of this it is ok to note vote tomorrow

I respond by stating the just war doctrine.

But apparently there is more then just war when it comes to pacifism

and the guy im talking about responds this way

(my name), you’re missing it. The Church teaches just war doctrine in regards to nations. Jesus taught pacifism in turning the other cheek. Pacifism as a personal practice is a long standing moral tradition, best exemplified in Jesus not resisting the crucifixion

I don’t want to argue this guy I just want some people to clear this stuff up for me. This guy is a very faithful catholic, its just he and I vary greatly when it comes to politics. He is one of the few people who hold his views in my group of friends.

thanks for any help

one more thing this guy is a democrat.

 

[RosaryFan]

alright so one of my good friends and I are having a debate on facebook even though I’m trying to dodge it as much as possible while still commenting

but this guy very very very catholic and very very very smart believes its justified to deiced to vote if there is the lesser of two evils.

here are things in its context i’m not going to include every post just the ones which show his positions

just to clear thigns up we are talking about the louisiana senate election

I respond by saying I see what you say and simply saying I pretty clearly know what i’m voting for on tuesday and he responds like this

then some guy (different guy) says there is a history of pacifism in the church and becuase of this it is ok to note vote tomorrow

I respond by stating the just war doctrine.

But apparently there is more then just war when it comes to pacifism

and the guy im talking about responds this way

I don’t want to argue this guy I just want some people to clear this stuff up for me. This guy is a very faithful catholic, its just he and I vary greatly when it comes to politics. He is one of the few people who hold his views in my group of friends.

thanks for any help

one more thing this guy is a democrat.

Aaaahhh! If every priest taught us the way Padre Pio taught, there wouldn’t be this ambiguity with respect to our voting duties. Padre Pio refused absolution to a man who thought he was justified in voting for a socialist. Good for Padre Pio!! But since the Bishops are at odds about how we, as Catholics, should be voting, we, the Catholics, are so confused. Is it okay to just vote for the “lesser of the two evils”? Do we stay faithful and write in a name of someone who is bound to not win? Do we listen to the Bishops instead of our consciences and still vote wrong??? It’s a mess. It’s just a big, fat mess. And I’m sure satan is loving it.

Sorry, I’m not answering your question very well, am I? I’m just venting.

 

[catholictiger]

Aaaahhh! If every priest taught us the way Padre Pio taught, there wouldn’t be this ambiguity with respect to our voting duties. Padre Pio refused absolution to a man who thought he was justified in voting for a socialist. Good for Padre Pio!! But since the Bishops are at odds about how we, as Catholics, should be voting, we, the Catholics, are so confused. Is it okay to just vote for the “lesser of the two evils”? Do we stay faithful and write in a name of someone who is bound to not win? Do we listen to the Bishops instead of our consciences and still vote wrong??? It’s a mess. It’s just a big, fat mess. And I’m sure satan is loving it.

Sorry, I’m not answering your question very well, am I? I’m just venting.

that’s ok, its a tough issue when it comes to the lesser of two evils this guy thinks we shouldn’t vote and I disagree with him (along with many people on EWTN)

 

[RedCatlicViking]

You are not obligated to vote, but you are obligated to help form the community in accordance with God, and the vote is a powerful tool for that.

Voting is making a political decision, but not all methods of helping form the community involve decision making. If you feel unable to make a good decision, or the vote is indecisive morally, it is fair to participate in building the community in other ways. It should not be encouraged, because it is basically taking a stance of ignorance on an issue, but if we are totally honest with ourselves it is unavoidable to admit ignorance on some (if not most) topics.

I prefer the Catholic Answers Voters Guide which lists the five nonnegotiable issues that must be considered first when you make political decisions (abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, and cloning). This is a clear and simple litmus test that displays whether a candidate values human life or considers it cheap. It is difficult to see how a candidate can rule on other matters justly if they do not value human life dearly.

There are a number of resources you should consult related to voting already created in Catholic Answers:
caaction.com/pdf/Voters-Guide-Catholic-English-1p.pdf
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=110716

 

[RosaryFan]

that’s ok, its a tough issue when it comes to the lesser of two evils this guy thinks we shouldn’t vote and I disagree with him (along with many people on EWTN)

I am very torn with the issue of “lesser of two evils”. I go back and forth. Right now (and I’m voting tomorrow), I feel like if both candidates are pro-abortion, I don’t cast a vote for either of them. I don’t want to affirm their actions in any way. Fr. Pavone from Priests for Life once said “No one who ignores the victims of abortion is worthy to hold public office”. If they are not worthy to hold public office, then I don’t pull a lever with their name on it. But as I said, I am torn and I can totally understand your point of view.

 

[rwoehmke]

I am very skeptical of most candidates/parties who claim to be pro-life (read that anti-abortion). Once elected that problem seems to mostly be put on the back burner. Very few if any seem to have a plan or program in mind as to how they will proceed in meeting that promise. Did either party ever have or do they now have a pro-life caucus in either legislative branch? My opinion is that for most candidates it is an empty promise for which we do not hold their feet to the fire and they know it. I always hope that my attitude can be proven incorrect, but I am still waiting.