Moral question related to marital sex

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patricius79

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does anyone have Church documentation or knowledge on the ethics of deliberately stimulating one’s wife to orgasm before or after the husband has climaxed in the wife?

I asked my priest but he did not know about the before part, at least
 
For responding to you asking, you need to understand that male and female are different on the topic. Thus, there are rules of orgasm of female. There are three types of orgasms of wife that are coming from three different parts of woman (see the process of the stimulation from clitoris — clitorical orgasm (1) —, from inside vagina — vaginal orgsam, Ernst Gräfenberg 's zone, so-called G spot (2)—, from the cervix --uterine orgasm (3)—);

The first for preparing the woman before vaginal penetration of male organ: manual stimulation and / or oral stimulation made by the husband. Clitoris is an outside organ.

The second is linked contact between penis and vagina: inside stimulation with the male organ.

The third is very deep, when the contact with the cervix, for helping to the potential fecundation (climax with uterine contractions);

The figure three in the marriage:

There is Holy Trinity (Three persons in one God);

There is the sacrament of marriage blessed by God (one god in three persons);

There is the marital act (wife and husband in one flesh (unity) during sexual union (1) in order to improve conjugal bonding of love (2) and potential fecundation (3) (fruit of love, a baby);

There are three steps for husband in order to be totally potent: erection, vaginal penetration, vaginal ejeculation;

There are three types of orgasms of wife that are coming from three different parts of woman (see the process of the stimulation from clitoris, from inside vagina, uterine orgasm);

In conclusion, in the context of marital act, wife has the right to get climaxs before and / or during. And if she does not get orgasm after man ejaculation, her husband has a moral obligation, if she wants it, to give stimulation in a human manner.
 
Sexual charity in the couple:

According to the natural links between wife and husband (natural contract that is at the spring of interpersonal obligations within couple), each spouse has an natural contractual moral obligation to go to the medical doctor and to take treatment - pills, exercices, psychological therapy with catholic doctor, and to be followed by a priest, if for instance:

Husband has premature ejaculations;
Husband has problems of erection;
Husband has no orgasm;
Husband has no ejaculation;
Husband is too often touched by the impotency, not always (not to do the link with the perpetual impotency); Husband in the western countries, could he be in moral obligation to take viagra if his wife wants marital sex?
Husband does not want, ever to be active during sexual intercourses;
Husband does not want natural and moral foreplay and / or natural and moral afterplay.
Husband is not, ever at the initiative of sexual intercourses;

Wife has problems of vaginismus;
Wife has no pleasure;
Wife has no orgasm;
Wife seems to be frigid;
Wife does not want, ever to be active during marital sex;
Wife does not want natural and moral foreplay and / or natural and moral afterplay.
Wife is not,ever at the initiative of sexual intercourses;

Include, for man or woman, also those matters that may increase sexual activity in such a way as to be dysfunctional - nymphomania and satyrism, paraphilia in one or both spouses, etc.

Complementary Information:

According to the Code of Canon Law ------ canon 1096 § 1" For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation."-----.
  1. Woman has to assume her feminity, she has to want to be a female;
  2. Man has to assume his virility (masculinity), he has to want to be a male;
  3. Woman has to receive the virility of her husband;
  4. Man has to receive the feminity of his wife;
  5. Woman has to give her whole feminity to her husband;
  6. Man has to give his whole masculinity to his wife;
Couple has to respect the natural law on marital act.
 
I’ll be interested in any “official” papers, but I have to basically agree with fpt above…Though without the detail he provides.
The Law of Love, within the marital embrace suggests to me that there is no problem with either one so long as the overall act itself is properly oriented to intercourse.
In my own experience, my wife preferred during or after.

Peace
James
 
A summary

First of all , you need to understand that for catholicism there are some theological approaches and some philosophies that have to be avoided by the couple about sex and intimacy in the Marriage.
These are: Pharisaism, Legalism, Externalism, Moralism, Scrupulism, Dolorism; Pessimism, Encratism, Manicheism, Catharism, Jansenism, Rigorism, Puritanism, Neo-puritanism, Prudism, Prudishness, Victorianism, Neo-victorianism; Sexism, Masculinism, Misogynism, Machism, Radical Feminism, Misandrism, Absolute Physiologism, Gender Theory; Absolute Procreationsim, Theoretical Providentialism, Primary Anti-personalism;

Secondly, according to canon 1096 § 1" For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation."

Morally speaking and per se (objectively), wife has to be okay with manual stimulations and oral stimulations on her entire body (in the respect of natural law) made by her husband as a foreplay to marital act in the context of conjugal act.
Morally speaking and per se (objectively), husband has to be okay with manual stimulations and oral stimulations on his entire body (in the respect of natural law) made by his wife as a foreplay to marital act in the context of conjugal act.

"If you do not change the end of the act (which limits a little thing compared to what is done by non-Catholic), and if you respect the person, the rest is okay.

Thirdly During continence periods, we are spouses, thus we are not brother and sister: intimacy without sex is possible, you need to find your creative abstinence.

Per se, it is not a sin to practice conjugal act in function of:
  1. Physiologic circumstances of wife
During wife’s periods (menstruation):
During pregnancy:
Days before the child birth:
The day of child birth (of course before the waters loss, labor and the delivery):
Sometimes the conjugal act can bring on labor., but per se if there are no medical problems, conjugal making love is not a sin even just before the end of pregnancy. If each members of couple are okay no problem if no medical issue.
During breastfeeding:
During menopause:
After menopause:
  1. Time of conjugal making love (when):
The Day:
The Night:
The Morning:
The Afternoon:
The Evening:
The Week:
The Week-end:
Holy Days:
Advent:
Christmas:
On Sunday:
Before Sunday Mass:
Before Sunday Mass and before Holy Communion:
After Sunday Mass:
After Sunday Mass and after Holy Communion:
Ash Wednesday:
Lent:
Holy Week:
Easter:
  1. Place of marital act (where):
Conjugal bed at home:
Conjugal bedroom at home:
Conjugal house: at home everywhere if the intimacy is respected: no children, no people in the house, of course, and no offense possible:
Bedroom hostel:
Bedroom motel :
A bedroom of friends for couple during vacations, during week-end:
A bedroom of your parents in law (for instance in your wife’s bedroom before your wedding):
A Bedroom of your parents (for instance in your own bedroom before your wedding):
  1. The initiative of one spouse: Equality and Equity between wife and husband
Active wife: ok
Passive wife: ok
Active husband: ok
Passive husband: ok
  1. The age of each one Spouse:
Young (18 until 60 years):
Old (60 until the death):
 
Pg. 89-90 in “The Good News about Sex and Marriage” touches on it briefly and says yes as long as its within the context of the overall marital act. Another way of saying would be as long as its not being done as a replacement for a procreative act.

The logistics of it has to do with the fact that the female orgasm is not tied to the procreative purpose of sex like the male orgasm is. Bringing your wife to orgasm with the context of the marital act (either before or after) is no different morally than any other action you would use to give her pleasure and fulfill the unitive bonding part of the act. The male orgasm though is obviously tied to the procreative purpose of sex which is why its wrong to bring it about in a way that contradicts this.
 
  1. Woman has to assume her feminity, she has to want to be a female;
  2. Man has to assume his virility (masculinity), he has to want to be a male;
  3. Woman has to receive the virility of her husband;
  4. Man has to receive the feminity of his wife;
  5. Woman has to give her whole feminity to her husband;
  6. Man has to give his whole masculinity to his wife;
Virility has two types of elements: material element (physical elements that are coming from the male body) and the intellectual elements that are coming from soul (psyche, reason, will, volition, freedom…ect). It means complementarity and alterity.

If you understand well, in the context of conjugal act all these differents elements should be.

The orgasms of wife are not the same than those of her husband.

I am in favor of this term: sexual conjugal charity, or conjugal charity in place of conjugal chastity. But in the concept of sexual conjugal charity there is of course conjugal chastity.
 
fpt said:
  1. Woman has to assume her feminity, she has to want to be a female;
  2. Man has to assume his virility (masculinity), he has to want to be a male;
  3. Woman has to receive the virility of her husband;
  4. Man has to receive the feminity of his wife;
  5. Woman has to give her whole feminity to her husband;
  6. Man has to give his whole masculinity to his wife;
Virility has two types of elements: material element (physical elements that are coming from the male body) and the intellectual elements that are coming from soul (psyche, reason, will, volition, freedom…ect). It means complementarity and alterity.

If you understand well, in the context of conjugal act all these differents elements should be.

The orgasms of wife are not the same than those of her husband.

I am in favor of this term: sexual conjugal charity, or conjugal charity in place of conjugal chastity. But in the concept of sexual conjugal charity there is of course conjugal chastity.
Click to expand...
It is the same thing for wife, of course: humanity is male and female.

Womanhood (feminity) has two types of elements: material element (physical elements that are coming from the male body) and the intellectual elements that are coming from soul (psyche, reason, will, volition, freedom…ect). It means complementarity and alterity.
 
Responsible procreation — Responsible motherhood and responsible fatherhood — is also one of elements of rules of marriage and thus of marital act.

Today, the research of medical sciences with the yes of the church in order to understand the biological system of man and woman on the procreation (i do not like the term human reproduction), gives humans the possiblity to refind what there were hidden by its own fault.

That is by the original sin, by the bad orientation of the thinking that day after day human beings lost the true knowledge of their own nature (body and soul). Just after the fall, the first couple had to deal with the original sin, but it had also the knowledge. And days after day because of the original sin and their sins (punishements of God, excessive behaviors…,) their family and descendants lost the wise knowledge.

When Church talks about natural law (responsible procreation and thus some methods with NFP), she explains a situation that was created by God (it is a part of the Revelation).

Procreation yes, reproduction certainly not. Reponsible procreation is written in the human heart. It is one of principles of marriage. NFP is only the application of natural methods for spacing or avoiding the baby, it is an element of the natural law that was present at the beginning of the creation.

Eve and Adam knew when exactly the conception could be (fertile periods and infertile periods) and / or when the conception could take place.

The teaching of catholic church on responsible procreation and NFP is not , per se, only objectively contextual (post-industrial revolution) For me, it is impossible.

The natural family planning is not practice to avoid, is not of belonging to a lack of trust in God, or is not a contraceptive method (contraception);

An ultra-rigorous application of " the use of marriage " (marital act) during periods of so-called infertile wife (NFP) ---- guilty vision, austere vision of fatherhood and motherhood responsible, without abandoning fully the joys and pleasures from the conjugal union of bodies, via “the addition of a non-posed elements” by the Roman Magisterium ---- is not catholic.

Conjugal sex is not only for babies.
 
I have forgotten, that also we have to avoid: modernism, relativism, materialism, progressivism, fideism.

Marital act is both human and spritual. It is wanted by God within the marriage. It is a very beautiful and very holy act of love. That is a body language between spouses. Physical affection, sexual affection within marriage are treasures. To give sexual pleasure to his wife and to receive sexual pleasure from his wife, and to give sexual pleasure to her husband and to receive sexual pleasure from her husband in the context of conjgal sex is so wonderful.

In addition, there is also the non-sexual pleasure: tenderness…etc, it is the creative abstinence without sex.
 
Thank you very much FPT and everyone. Very helpful and will take a while to process. --Pat
 
It comes down to this: healthy human sexuality consists of an entwined tangle of marriage, intimacy and babies. Keep all these elements included in a marital relationship based on mutual giving without taking direct action to try to cut one (or more) strand off and you don’t need a long laundry list of rules. But without understanding that basic principle, no encyclopedia filled with rules will ever be enough to avoid sin.
 
manualman said:
It comes down to this: healthy human sexuality consists of an entwined tangle of marriage, intimacy and babies. Keep all these elements included in a marital relationship based on mutual giving without taking direct action to try to cut one (or more) strand off and you don’t need a long laundry list of rules. But without understanding that basic principle, no encyclopedia filled with rules will ever be enough to avoid sin.
Click to expand...
That is a good point. Indeed, the Marriage Act is Unitive and Procreative.
 
I have wanted to explain my thought on the teaching of catholic church in the details because today, and since the world is world, because of original sin and Satan, this topic is so often misunderstood : too much spiritual, we want to become a pure spirit as Lucifer, or too much material and thus we act only as animals.

The just middle is the moderation. Love, true love, real love is the only answer. Conjugal Charity, it is a so beautiful notion and the Respond.
 
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