Moral Question

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Invoking the “[post=5226572]I don’t have the time[/post] to read that whole thread” rule, perhaps one of you could point me to the specific bit or bits where Church teaching that Catholics are to have NOTHING to do with freemasonry is revealed?

Thanks.

tee
Hey, tee…I will just invoke the I don’t have time to repost everything and overdo everything on Freemasonry excuse. What I will say is yes, you are correct there is nothing in Church teaching that says a Catholic is to have nothing to do with Freemasonry. However, there is everything in Church Teaching and the present Pope’s stance that a Catholic is not allowed to join Freemasonry or suffers Grave Sin. Period.

Freemasonry is a religion…pure and simple…There are Oaths, Services, Temples, Hymns, and when one dies even a prayer book for the complete Masonic Funeral and Benediction. This is religion…And by the way, the last posts from a Mason claiming that he is LOL that one would take Masonry’s bloodcurdling oaths serious is untrue. I was going to post on that thread but I’ve had enough. Put it this way, some of those posters on that thread who actually divulged some Masonic secrets on the thread were not LOL after they did so…and I know this personally. And I know this personally also from family friends’ experience. I’m just kind of fed up spending time on Masonry because I did not join the Catholic Forum to study their ritual further. You either choose Freemasonry’s secret omnific name for God which cannot be pronounced by any Royal Arch Mason JAHBULON or you choose Jesus Christ. Of course, you can associate with them but if you want to become one, then enter grave sin. Any arguments, I guess you take up with the Holy Father. That’s the best I can do for now. God Bless!
 
The secret Masonic name to God is Jahbulon which the Methodist, Church of England, and Lutheran churches found the most worrisome in their modern studies of the Lodge as it is a mongrel name for the Almighty (with the middle bul subbing in for BEL, BAAL, the Semitic Deity the prophet Elijah fought - the Devil ladies and gentlemen) as these groups saw it. It is only revealed in the highest degrees. As I posted on that thread. My high-flying top dog 2nd Uncle multi-millionaire comes flying in to visit my family. Have not seen him in years. He’s proud of his Masonic Rank and Lodge. I simply say: “Hey, can you say JAHBULON”…His reaction is still with me to this day… a grown man turning white and pale in front of the whole family dinner just shaking his head like a little girl, in that I can’t say that. He would not relent. Up until then, I still hoped up some belief that one could LOL with all this oldboy’s club chumminess. The rituals are just a joke. Boy, was I wrong. Here’s the Royal Arch ritual as I posted taken from a bestseller in England written by Martin Short Inside the Brotherhood

A Methodist Church Inquiry in 1985 found that "the most serious objection " for a Christian in all Freemasonry:
“lies in the Royal Arch ritual which reveals the Supreme Being’s true name as JAHBULON. Clearly each of this word’s three syllables conform to the name of a divinity in a particular religion. The whole word is thus an example of syncretism, an attempt to unite different religions in one, which Christians cannot accept.”

For those who know, if a Mason attains higher degrees he may get to become EXALTED into the Holy Royal Arch, which lies beyond Craft Freemasonry. It is the self-styled “Supreme Degree”. An October 1987 article in Britain’s Evening Post by Canon Brindley described JAHBULON as “an unholy compound of the Hebrew name of God, Jehovah, with the heathen names for Baal and Osiris”.

The Royal Arch Ritual in Masonry tells how the Jews were freed from captivity in Babylon in the 6th Century B.C. and how they returned to rebuild King Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem. Enacting the ritual in the Masonic Temple, a candidate discovers a vault from the original Solomonic Temple which contains a gold plate inscribed with two words: JEHOVAH, described as the “Sacred and Mysterious Name of the True and Living God Most High”; and JAHBULON. He then is told these are Masonry’s “long-lost secrets”, which Hiram Abiff (character used in lower degrees) died for rather than betray 500 years before. He learns then that all he has learned until then in the first 3 degrees are “substituted secrets”, adopted until time should restore the genuine.

The top of the Royal Arch Altar is adorned with a plate of brass which is inscribed with a circle on which is written JE-HO-VAH split into three syllables. Within the circle is a triangle on each side of which is written JAH-BUL-ON, also split in three. There follows a “Mystical Lecture”:
“In times of antiquity, names of of God and symbols of divinity were always enclosed in triangular figures…The Egyptians termed it the sacred number…They gave it the sacred name of God…The word on the triangle is that Sacred and Mysterious Name you have just solemnly engaged yourself never to pronounce…It is a compound word, and the combination forms the word JAH-BUL-ON. It is in four languages, Chaldee, Hebrew, Syriac, and Egyptian. JAH is the Chaldee name of God, signifying His essence and majesty incomprehensible. It is also a Hebrew word for “I am and shall be”. BUL is a Syriac word denoting Lord or Powerful, Heaven on High. ON is an Egyptian word signifying Father of all, thereby expressing Omnipotence.”

In Ancient times the Chaldeans, Syrians, and Egyptians all worshiped pagan gods to which these 3 syllables refer. The emphasis, however, to a Church of England working group on Freemasonry in the 1980s was on the triangle’s corners BAL, another spelling for Baal, “the name of a Semitic deity bitterly opposed by Elijah and the later Hebrew prophets; far from being a means of describing God, it is a syncretistic name of God made out of the name of Yahweh, Baal and Osiris (the Egyptian fertility God).”

Jahbulon I believe is blasphemy pure and simple.

My references besides personal are: Inside the Brotherhood, a bestseller by Martin Short, and The Brotherhood by Stephen Knight. And Walton Hannah’s Darkness Visible which goes through each degree from a Christian perspective.

God Bless.
 
Oh and since the OP mentioned he only went through the first three degrees of Masonry, I am not sure if he went up the higher degrees when one is exalted into the Royal Arch, the self-styled supreme degree in Masonry, and is told that all that he has learned in the lower degrees was not the full light and that now the candidate will learn the Omnific Name for God Jahbulon vouchsafed to him under bloodcurdling oaths.

Two issues went into JP2’s condemnation: 1) a 6 year study into Freemasonry conducted by the entire hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church in Germany which pronounced Freemasonry incompatible with Catholicism after going through the rituals.
2) the Masonic P2 Scandal in the 1980s which shook a G7 nation to its core, and even insidiously started making contacts within the Vatican. The best I can do for now is this wikepedia link which in my estimation does a good job of explaining what happens when Freemasonry goes bad. And this Italian Grand Orient had the recognition of World Masonry’s Grand Lodge in England, so it was no rogue lodge as some pro-Masons have argued.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
 
Oh and since the OP mentioned he only went through the first three degrees of Masonry, I am not sure if he went up the higher degrees when one is exalted into the Royal Arch, the self-styled supreme degree in Masonry, and is told that all that he has learned in the lower degrees was not the full light and that now the candidate will learn the Omnific Name for God Jahbulon vouchsafed to him under bloodcurdling oaths.
Nope, 3rd degree was as high as I got and could afford. Naturally, they wouldn’t tell me the details about the higher degrees, but I had heard stories. I had heard of oaths to Satan, ties to the Illuminati and of how the higher Masons have controlled this country in the past. The satanic worship I can believe and the control of this country, but the Illuminati? Don’t know about that.:ehh: They’re supposed to be far more powerful than the Masons. Anythings possible I guess.🤷
 
And finally the sad part is there are some guys (one of them who became a supreme ritualist in Masonry) who have a real hard time worrying about what happens to their loved ones when they die and a Masonic Funeral is conducted. The former Freemason basically said: do you want them to condemn your soul to Osiris after you die, and this guy knew the whole ritual.

So when one dies, where Catholics may put up tombstones with Crosses or Statues of the Virgin Mary (if one can afford it), Masons I’ve seen buried put up NO crosses on their tombstones or put up Egyptian obelisks on their grave. The husband and even wife (who cannot join the Lodge) can have the seal of the Grand Architect of the Universe, the square and compass with a big “G” in the middle of the triangle on the tombstone or obelisk.

We go to the cross, and in their Masonic crowning finishes to life, no cross or prayer to Christ if you do a Masonic Benediction. Now how can one look at an organization like this as not an religion or supra-religion: the GAOUT grand architect symbol is a religious symbol for Freemasonry, their god, engraved on their tombstones and when you check out the obits in your local paper, you’ll find where others put the cross besides the name of the deceased, they put the GAOUT symbol. I don’t wish them ill; it’s their choice. But that is religion, not just fun and games as they claim. Some proMasons, an English canon, once called it Masonry the supreme religion and he was a proud Mason and found no problems with this.

When you join, Masonry does not care what god you believe in…could be any god, just has to be some God. And that’s why the world’s most famous Satanist, Aleister Crowley, could breeze through all the secret rites of Scottish Freemasonry and never be condemned by the Grand Lodge. They knew what he stood for but he graduated magna cum laude so to speak. They’ve never disavowed him.

And as for them defending their oaths, it’s a catch 22 when they get initiated into Masonry, get a noose around their necks, get a hoodwink placed over their eyes, go down on one knee with one pant leg and shirt sleeve up with a gold compass pointing at their bare chest from the Master Mason and are forced to pronounce a bloodcurdling oath with one hand on an open Holy Bible if Christian in a Temple and in front of a Masonic Altar.
The catch 22 is that there are only 2 explanations of what happens during the initiation ceremonies and both are sins:
  1. either the nature of the oath and threats of torture are just jokes and not to be taken seriously, in which case the Masonic Christian candidate has just committed blasphemy by swearing a mock oath on the Bible for fun; or
  2. the oaths with their penalties do mean something, in which case a Christian Masonic Candidate has again committed blasphemy by using Scriptures to bound himself to physical torture.
You cannot just produce the Bible for oaths and penalties and just say its a joke or just symbolic. The Bible is neither a joke nor just a symbol. It’s a catch 22 for the Christian Mason. If its all fun and games, our Bible should not be used in a pagan Masonic Temple.
 
You cannot just produce the Bible for oaths and penalties and just say its a joke or just symbolic. The Bible is neither a joke nor just a symbol. It’s a catch 22 for the Christian Mason. If its all fun and games, our Bible should not be used in a pagan Masonic Temple.
Amen to that!
 
Nope, 3rd degree was as high as I got and could afford. Naturally, they wouldn’t tell me the details about the higher degrees, but I had heard stories. I had heard of oaths to Satan, ties to the Illuminati and of how the higher Masons have controlled this country in the past. The satanic worship I can believe and the control of this country, but the Illuminati? Don’t know about that.:ehh: They’re supposed to be far more powerful than the Masons. Anythings possible I guess.🤷
No don’t get involved in the fringe stuff, the Illuminati accusations - there not true and just make Catholics look like conspiracy hunters. The Masons peak came in the 19th century when they really did use conspiracies like Garibaldi and Calvini in Italy. That time has long gone by. There is no Illuminati organization or worldwide Masonic conspiracy. Its more along the lines now of local stuff. They don’t have that aim any longer and our whole argument on the other thread basically focused on their ritual. That Illuminati, and New World Order stuff really just comes from the conspiracy nutters and neither today’s Pope nor I (humbly) believe in that nonsense. The world is complicated enough as it is. There are no such ultrasecret conspiracies and if you bring them up it just lessens the strength of the original argument on religious incompatibility.

God Bless! I’m getting tired. I hoped I helped a bit and did not offend anyone. 🙂
 
The world is complicated enough as it is. There are no such ultrasecret conspiracies and if you bring them up it just lessens the strength of the original argument on religious incompatibility.

God Bless! I’m getting tired. I hoped I helped a bit and did not offend anyone. 🙂
Too true! Good night. I’m headed to bed myself. 👍
 
Taken from post #25 from the previously mentioned thread:
Catholics are still forbidden from being associated with the masons.
As much as I may admire the author of that post, he speaks with no more authority than any other forum member.

Where does the Church teach that Catholics are to have NOTHING to do with freemasonry?

tee
 
Hey, tee…I will just invoke the I don’t have time to repost everything and overdo everything on Freemasonry excuse. What I will say is yes, you are correct there is nothing in Church teaching that says a Catholic is to have nothing to do with Freemasonry.
Thank you.
However, there is everything in Church Teaching and the present Pope’s stance that a Catholic is not allowed to join Freemasonry or suffers Grave Sin. Period.
Agreed. And I do not think anyone on this thread has denied this.
([post=5225973]Certainly I have not[/post])

tee
 
Obviously, I am ignorant. Can you please point me to where the Servant of God, John Paul II, directed that *Catholics are to have NOTHING to do with freemasonry *(I did not find any such statement at the link you suggest)? Thank you.

tee
Its in the very first line of the link I sent you. Anyways this destroyfreemasonry.com/chapter2.htm should give you all the information you need.

God Bless
 
Its absolutely ridiculous to assert that Catholics should not associate with Freemasons.
If we apply the concept behind this assertion, that one should not associate with those who have beliefs which contradict Catholic teaching, we not associate with anyone outside the Church! Clearly, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that we should not associate with those who have different beliefs…
I would like to test out your logic. Would you care to move to Iran and continue living your life as a Catholic, and see what happens. Believe it or not, the Church does have enemies. Freemasons are enemies of the Church. Period. There are no ways around it. The organization was first created to abolish Catholicism. Why would you want to associate with them?
 
Obviously, I am ignorant. Can you please point me to where the Servant of God, John Paul II, directed that *Catholics are to have NOTHING to do with freemasonry *(I did not find any such statement at the link you suggest)? Thank you.
Its in the very first line of the link I sent you.
(Taking the first two lines) You mean this?
On April 28, 1738, Pope Clement XIII issued a papal bull declaring any Catholic who participated in Freemasonry would be automatically excommunicated.
The Catholic Church reaffirmed his declaration numerous times, the most recent being under Pope John Paul II in 1983.
That does not say Catholics are to have NOTHING to do with freemasonry. What the Servant of God, John Paul II, affirmed in 1983 was this:
The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
Not quite the same as have NOTHING to do with…

:twocents:
tee
 
My apologies for not being able to provide for you the EXACT words. Maybe for me it is more the implicit understanding of things. I am sorry that you felt I was quoting something or someone directly. I am sorry seem to feel a need to discredit my comment. I certainly do not mean to mislead people.
 
Too true! Good night. I’m headed to bed myself. 👍
Heck…I feel bad now for jumping in on this thread and causing a commotion. tee_ef_em is right on what’s allowed and what isn’t.

BigBear came in on hear with legitimate concerns and I’ve done nothing but probably disturbed his hibernation routine. I think the point is, and can’t be stressed enough, we don’t want an angry Bear running amok on this forum. BigBear, you hibernate well my friend and stay away from those bees. Andrew 🙂
 
I didn’t mean to tick anybody off, I was just concerned about us supporting the Shriners. I am still new at this and I was just looking for advice and/or opinions, not to start a word war.:o
I had same concerns and raised a similar concern on this forum, where our Council co-sponsored a fundraiser with the local lodge, an arrangment that had been going on for many years. never really did get a good answer. but I came away with that the public association could be construed as tacit approval and best to avoid while at same time there was nothing “wrong” with the event as it benefitted the community. as individuals we are free to associate with whomever we wish, but imho, as an organization the KoC ought to refrain from such public associations.
 
(Taking the first two lines) You mean this?

That does not say Catholics are to have NOTHING to do with freemasonry. What the Servant of God, John Paul II, affirmed in 1983 was this:

Not quite the same as have NOTHING to do with…

:twocents:
tee
Tee, why tread the line of grave sin if it is avoidable? Arguing semantics does not lead to answers and a deeper understanding of our faith, which is what we all should be trying to achieve.

If you knew the history of freemasonry, you would not be taking this so lightly. I repeat, it was created to abolish all religion, Catholicism included. And further, in some orders, generally the highest, it is essentially satanic.

It seems you are looking for loopholes in the Church’s laws to make the Church seem more accepting of these opposing views. The Church does not cater to it’s enemies. It cannot idly sit by and allow yet another intrinsically evil organization formulate under it’s nose.Which is exactly what the popes, starting with Clement, are trying to stop from happening with these declarations. I ask you, and all the others reading this, to take this more seriously. For the love of our Holy Church.
 
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