moral question

  • Thread starter Thread starter louie12
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

louie12

Guest
my daughter, a few years ago when she was playing, her knee cap was dislocated.we took her to the emergency and she got better,but probably she still had a weak knee.some time ago she was baby sitting for some people and their dog was going crazy and he hit my daughter in the knee which caused her knee to pop out again.she had to go through a surgery to correct the problem.my wife said she thinks, the people should at least pay for the health insurance deductible which is about $2500.is this fair or is it morally unacceptable.

thankyou
 
First, forget all the extraneous stuff about the past. The simple facts are your daughter was attacked by their dog on their property, requiring surgery.

Naturally the dog owners should pay all your daughter’s medical expenses. Getting them to do so is another story. Are you willing to engage a lawyer? Usually that is the only way to get people to hand over thousands of dollars, but it’s also agonizing and will ruin your friendship with them, if you have one.

But as to your point on the morality, my view is of course, absolutely the dog owners are fully responsible, especially because your daughter was on their property at their request.
 
Weak knee or not, it makes no difference.

Your daughter was babysitting: she was left in charge.

It was her responsibility to keep things under control.

I would be careful, these people could just as easily turn around and sue you (as responsible for your daughter) for her allowing things to get so out of hand as to endanger their child/children.

I’m sorry she hurt her knee, but in no way should you even think about charging these people a dime.

Besides, once the deductible is taken care of, doesn’t that mean that your entire family is covered for free for the rest of the year.

The thought of demanding coverage for a family deductable is unconscionable.
 
I can’t understand asking (or demanding) the dog owners pay, unless there was some way they could have forseen the significant possibility of injury occuring and could reasonably have done something to prevent it, like if the dog is really dangerous (to anyone, assuming they didn’t know about your daughter’s bad knee) and should have been tied up, or not kept in the first place.
 
First of all, this is certainly a tough call! Have you talked to a priest about your situation?

In the meantime, let’s turn the table around to get a different perspective:
My babysitter was over and my dog was going crazy and he hit her in the knee which caused her previously injured knee to pop out. She had to go through surgery to correct the problem.
my babysitter’s parents said they think we should at least pay for the health insurance deductible which is about $2500. is this fair or is it morally unacceptable?
Then consider CCC 2407:
In economic matters, respect for human dignity requires the practice of the virtue of temperance, so as to moderate attachment to this world’s goods; the practice of the virtue of justice, to preserve our neighbor’s rights and render him what is his due; and the practice of solidarity, in accordance with the golden rule and in keeping with the generosity of the Lord, who “though he was rich, yet for your sake . . . became poor so that by his poverty, you might become rich.”
Finally, though the following passages Leviticus 19:15 & Leviticus 19:17 aren’t exactly about your dilemma, I think they, and the Haydock commentary regarding the latter, could lend some wisdom nonetheless.

I don’t know the answer to your question, but I hope this might help you make up your mind. I’m praying that the God of Justice guide you in your decision!
 
I am no lawyer so my comments may not be the wisest.

We have a dog. We understand, at least morally, that we are responsible for whatever our dog does. If we allow our dog to play with kids and one of them is harmed by our dog, we would feel responsible to make amends as best we could.

When employed, harm resulting from ‘simple’ negligence is usually the responsibility of the employer. "Gross’ negligence is on the employee.

But, is one an employee or an independent contractor? An IC is generally responsible for his or her own insurance.

Most folks have home owner’s insurance and a claim can be filed to that insurance company.

I would inquire to your own insurance carrier to find the best path.
 
I am no lawyer so my comments may not be the wisest.

We have a dog. We understand, at least morally, that we are responsible for whatever our dog does. If we allow our dog to play with kids and one of them is harmed by our dog, we would feel responsible to make amends as best we could.

When employed, harm resulting from ‘simple’ negligence is usually the responsibility of the employer. "Gross’ negligence is on the employee.

But, is one an employee or an independent contractor? An IC is generally responsible for his or her own insurance.

Most folks have home owner’s insurance and a claim can be filed to that insurance company.

I would inquire to your own insurance carrier to find the best path.
From one Fred to another, that makes good sense. I don’t know if every state requires
a home owner to have personal liability insurance, but I know we have it on our house.
And if someone were to hurt themselves on our property, we would just turn it in. There is
a deductable on the payment.

The church in general follows the laws of the state unless there would be special circumstances to change that.
 
Weak knee or not, it makes no difference.

Your daughter was babysitting: she was left in charge.

It was her responsibility to keep things under control.

I would be careful, these people could just as easily turn around and sue you (as responsible for your daughter) for her allowing things to get so out of hand as to endanger their child/children.

I’m sorry she hurt her knee, but in no way should you even think about charging these people a dime.

Besides, once the deductible is taken care of, doesn’t that mean that your entire family is covered for free for the rest of the year.

The thought of demanding coverage for a family deductable is unconscionable.
From one Fred to another, that makes good sense. I don’t know if every state requires
a home owner to have personal liability insurance, but I know we have it on our house.
And if someone were to hurt themselves on our property, we would just turn it in. There is
a deductable on the payment.

The church in general follows the laws of the state unless there would be special circumstances to change that.
Homeowners insurance shoots up astronomically once a claim has been filed on it. They may demand that the dog be put down.

I’m sure you have been asked several times; its standard on admitting forms; where this injury occurred. Your medical insurance company is footing a huge bill and will do everything in its power to recompense. If it is knows that it is a waste of time to sue the dog owners, then you should take a page out of their book. *** Personal experience speaking here*** But you’re not looking for LEGAL advice (which no one here is in any position to give) - You are looking for MORAL advice.

It is REALLY easy to reinjure an existing knee injury. It’s called a “trick knee”; I’ve had one since I played soccer in HS. In retrospect; it would have been the grace of God, had I been injured enough to have it “fixed” instead of spending the rest of my life nursing the darn thing. I have always been careful and know when I am around big dogs to keep my knees slightly bent. It doesn’t take but a slight bump in the wrong direction for the knee to “go out”.

The scenario for the dog owner’s perspective was not complete. Let’s try again.

You are the dog owners. You have a kid or kids and you want to go out for the evening.
You do what every other normal parents in the country does: you hire a babysitter; but not just any person off the street. You make sure they are competent and have good recommendations, etc. You leave with confidence, because you trust the babysitter to call you if there is a problem. The dog is a non-issue because he is a big, friendly dog and would never hurt a fly.

Now you come home to find out (or are called home unexpectedly) that your dear friendly dog did what big friendly dogs do: he bumped your babysitter’s legs. Unfortunately, she failed to mention to you her pre-existing condition and had it exacerbated by your dog.

Would it remotely occur to you to pay for her family’s medical deductible?

It would be like if the babysitter cut herself with your very sharp knife, requiring surgery. Yes lawsuits have been won over just such scenarios: ie: Hot Coffee at McD’s being “hot”.
Legally it depends on how icky your lawyer wants to be to make a buck.
***Morally * your daughter got hurt under her own recognizance and through her own actions or inactions albeit at someone else’s home. **
My husband and I think that they don’t morally have any obligation to pay.
That’s not to say that the owners may *want *to pay the deductible if you give them the chance.

Yes, by all means talk to a lawyer. Even if he told me to sue, sue, sue I wouldn’t. You might disagree but most likely, he’ll tell you to just eat the deductible.

Prayers for your daughter.
 
Weak knee or not, it makes no difference.

Your daughter was babysitting: she was left in charge.

It was her responsibility to keep things under control.

I would be careful, these people could just as easily turn around and sue you (as responsible for your daughter) for her allowing things to get so out of hand as to endanger their child/children.

I’m sorry she hurt her knee, but in no way should you even think about charging these people a dime.

Besides, once the deductible is taken care of, doesn’t that mean that your entire family is covered for free for the rest of the year.

The thought of demanding coverage for a family deductable is unconscionable.

Homeowners insurance shoots up astronomically once a claim has been filed on it. They may demand that the dog be put down.

I’m sure you have been asked several times; its standard on admitting forms; where this injury occurred. Your medical insurance company is footing a huge bill and will do everything in its power to recompense. If it is knows that it is a waste of time to sue the dog owners, then you should take a page out of their book. *** Personal experience speaking here*** But you’re not looking for LEGAL advice (which no one here is in any position to give) - You are looking for MORAL advice.

It is REALLY easy to reinjure an existing knee injury. It’s called a “trick knee”; I’ve had one since I played soccer in HS. In retrospect; it would have been the grace of God, had I been injured enough to have it “fixed” instead of spending the rest of my life nursing the darn thing. I have always been careful and know when I am around big dogs to keep my knees slightly bent. It doesn’t take but a slight bump in the wrong direction for the knee to “go out”.

The scenario for the dog owner’s perspective was not complete. Let’s try again.

You are the dog owners. You have a kid or kids and you want to go out for the evening.
You do what every other normal parents in the country does: you hire a babysitter; but not just any person off the street. You make sure they are competent and have good recommendations, etc. You leave with confidence, because you trust the babysitter to call you if there is a problem. The dog is a non-issue because he is a big, friendly dog and would never hurt a fly.

Now you come home to find out (or are called home unexpectedly) that your dear friendly dog did what big friendly dogs do: he bumped your babysitter’s legs. Unfortunately, she failed to mention to you her pre-existing condition and had it exacerbated by your dog.

Would it remotely occur to you to pay for her family’s medical deductible?

It would be like if the babysitter cut herself with your very sharp knife, requiring surgery. Yes lawsuits have been won over just such scenarios: ie: Hot Coffee at McD’s being “hot”.
Legally it depends on how icky your lawyer wants to be to make a buck.
***Morally *** your daughter got hurt under her own recognizance and through her own actions or inactions albeit at someone else’s home.
My husband and I think that they don’t morally have any obligation to pay.
That’s not to say that the owners may *want *to pay the deductible if you give them the chance.

As I recall, in the infamous McDonald’s coffee incident the coffee makers were defective and the coffee was scalding hot, beyond what was reasonable to expect from hot coffee, and the company knew this and chose to let it slide because they estimated (wrongly, because a judge decided to make an example out of them) that a few customers and employees getting burned and suing would cost them less than replacing all their machines. It was real negligence on their part, failing to take action to prevent a predictable injury.

My question is whether the dog owners had any way of predicting this particular injury. If they really did nothing wrong based on what they knew ahead of time or could reasonably have been expected to know, then I can’t see how they should be penalized.
 
Weak knee or not, it makes no difference.

Your daughter was babysitting: she was left in charge.

It was her responsibility to keep things under control.

I would be careful, these people could just as easily turn around and sue you (as responsible for your daughter) for her allowing things to get so out of hand as to endanger their child/children.

I’m sorry she hurt her knee, but in no way should you even think about charging these people a dime.

Besides, once the deductible is taken care of, doesn’t that mean that your entire family is covered for free for the rest of the year.

The thought of demanding coverage for a family deductable is unconscionable.

Homeowners insurance shoots up astronomically once a claim has been filed on it. They may demand that the dog be put down.

I’m sure you have been asked several times; its standard on admitting forms; where this injury occurred. Your medical insurance company is footing a huge bill and will do everything in its power to recompense. If it is knows that it is a waste of time to sue the dog owners, then you should take a page out of their book. *** Personal experience speaking here*** But you’re not looking for LEGAL advice (which no one here is in any position to give) - You are looking for MORAL advice.

It is REALLY easy to reinjure an existing knee injury. It’s called a “trick knee”; I’ve had one since I played soccer in HS. In retrospect; it would have been the grace of God, had I been injured enough to have it “fixed” instead of spending the rest of my life nursing the darn thing. I have always been careful and know when I am around big dogs to keep my knees slightly bent. It doesn’t take but a slight bump in the wrong direction for the knee to “go out”.

The scenario for the dog owner’s perspective was not complete. Let’s try again.

You are the dog owners. You have a kid or kids and you want to go out for the evening.
You do what every other normal parents in the country does: you hire a babysitter; but not just any person off the street. You make sure they are competent and have good recommendations, etc. You leave with confidence, because you trust the babysitter to call you if there is a problem. The dog is a non-issue because he is a big, friendly dog and would never hurt a fly.

Now you come home to find out (or are called home unexpectedly) that your dear friendly dog did what big friendly dogs do: he bumped your babysitter’s legs. Unfortunately, she failed to mention to you her pre-existing condition and had it exacerbated by your dog.

Would it remotely occur to you to pay for her family’s medical deductible?

It would be like if the babysitter cut herself with your very sharp knife, requiring surgery. Yes lawsuits have been won over just such scenarios: ie: Hot Coffee at McD’s being “hot”.
Legally it depends on how icky your lawyer wants to be to make a buck.
***Morally *** your daughter got hurt under her own recognizance and through her own actions or inactions albeit at someone else’s home.
My husband and I think that they don’t morally have any obligation to pay.
That’s not to say that the owners may *want *to pay the deductible if you give them the chance.

Yes, by all means talk to a lawyer. Even if he told me to sue, sue, sue I wouldn’t. You might disagree but most likely, he’ll tell you to just eat the deductible.

Prayers for your daughter.
As I recall, in the infamous McDonald’s coffee incident the coffee makers were defective and the coffee was scalding hot, beyond what was reasonable to expect from hot coffee, and the company knew this and chose to let it slide because they estimated (wrongly, because a judge decided to make an example out of them) that a few customers and employees getting burned and suing would cost them less than replacing all their machines. It was real negligence on their part, failing to take action to prevent a predictable injury.

My question is whether the dog owners had any way of predicting and avoiding a danger of this kind of injury. If they really did nothing wrong based on what they knew ahead of time or could reasonably have been expected to know, then I can’t see why they should be penalized.
 
I personally do not see how the owners of the dog are fully responsible for this injury. I mean it doesn’t sound like the dog attacked her but rather got excited and bumped into her knee. Yet the owners could have had the chance of taking the proper precautions for your daughter if you made them aware of her condition.
 
Call your local animal control department and ask them about your local laws concering a pet owner’s responsiblity; I’m sure it varies from area to area. Most places hold the owner 100% responsible for their pet’s behavior. You daughter’s knee was serving her just fine until their dog hit it; asking for only 1/2 of the insurance deductible is more than fair.
 
Communication is always a good thing.

One thing you *might *do is explain & print out this thread for your neighbors to see that objectively there really are two extremes to this situation.

You might add that you have absolutely NO intention of suing or getting them or their dog in trouble … just see what they think and if you can have a reasonable conversation with them.

I pray you can in any case.

I never got the full details on the McDonald’s case - that’s interesting; considering I was reading about it in the Washington Post at the time. … Maybe I just missed that. 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top