moral question

[louie12]

i know somebody who is getting help from the government,health insurance,plus food stamps and some cash,he is telling me he wants part of his salary or pay in cash(may be 20 or 25%) otherwise he would not be able to get the help.would paragraph 2408 in the CCC says’’ when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.would this apply to his situation? because the CCC SAYS THERE WOULD BE NO THEFT IN A SITUATION LIKE HIS.

 

[1ke]

It does not matter how you pay an employee, you must still deduct appropriate taxes, pay the payroll taxes, and report all the wages on the W-2. In the case of a contractor, you must report all payments on a 1099.

What this person means by “pay in cash” is to defraud the government by not reporting the wages and not paying the social security, medicare, and payroll taxes you are legally required to pay.

No, you should not do this. It is illegal, and it is YOUR business that could be fined by the government. YOU would have to lie on YOUR business taxes.

This same person could even turn around later and file a claim against you for not paying these payroll and social security/medicare taxes. And someone who wants you to commit fraud and theft would probably have no regrets about filing such a claim against you if/when it becomes advantageous.

Food stamps and other benefits are for those who need them. If the person make “too much” by properly counting all of their income, then perhaps they do not need these benefits as much as others do. They are perhaps receiving these benefits that others need, and doing so illegally.

Do not get involved in such schemes, they are illegal and immoral.

 

[louie12]

he has 3-children and a wife he is paying $1100 for his apartment.so he can not afford to loose his health insurance,i could pay health insurance for him only not his family

 

[1ke]

he has 3-children and a wife he is paying $1100 for his apartment.so he can not afford to loose his health insurance,i could pay health insurance for him only not his family

What you cannot do is sin by entering into a scheme to evade taxes, defraud the government, and lie.

Simply do things legally and ethically. If he is in real need, there are many social services he can turn to. You cannot “help” him by sinning.

 

[louie12]

OK thank you

 

[tawny]

What you cannot do is sin by entering into a scheme to evade taxes, defraud the government, and lie.

Simply do things legally and ethically. If he is in real need, there are many social services he can turn to. You cannot “help” him by sinning.

Well stated.

 

[RedFox0456]

I just want to add that this is certainly one of those times we are taught that are going to be difficult. Doing things morally and ethically, and having to place trust that God will provide, is not always easy. Please pray for your employee that God will take care of him and his family. I will do the same.

 

[Cricket2]

i know somebody who is getting help from the government,health insurance,plus food stamps and some cash,he is telling me he wants part of his salary or pay in cash(may be 20 or 25%) otherwise he would not be able to get the help.would paragraph 2408 in the CCC says’’ when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.would this apply to his situation? because the CCC SAYS THERE WOULD BE NO THEFT IN A SITUATION LIKE HIS.

I think it might. I may have a different perspective on this since I spent years working with the disabled and my sister is on disability after years of hard work and paying into the system. First: If anyone thinks folks on disability get a lot of money think again. You can own your home and one car. You can only have 2K cash total at anyone time or you will loose your benefits even if you are bed ridden. You can’t have any life insurance or other assets and if you go to a care facility THEY get your house. (Not your family.)

My sister is expected to live on 900 a month with 15 for food stamps. Have you done that lately? When I worked with the disabled in group homes and apartment programs their funds went directly to the facility and they were allowed 35/month for personal needs and food. No food stamps. If they had a job it was very nominal in terms of skill and pay, and if they earned even 40$ we had special calculations on how much had to go back to disabilities office. They might be lucky to keep 20$.

Personally I have no problem paying someone on disability in cash. I might only be able to give them 20$ but I will give it to them and not think twice. There is no one living on disability that is getting anywhere near the money they need for the basics let alone extra’s. Sure some abuse the system, but let me say this…for the most part welfare and food stamp offices in this country are 10 years behind in paper work. So a lot of the reported fraud against those receiving benefits is wrong. Most of the fraud is from within the system, believe me.

 

[Miserissima]

You can pay him as a 1099, report it what you paid him, and he will bear the burden of paying for his health insurance and claiming his taxes as a 1099 employee.

 

[1ke]

You can pay him as a 1099

Only if the person qualifies as a contractor, under government rules. One cannot simply call someone a contractor, one must meet the established criteria.

claiming his taxes as a 1099 employee.

There is no such thing as a 1099 employee. One is either an employee or a contractor.

An employer must pay 1/2 employment tax, medicare, and social security taxes for employees.

A contractor is self-employed and therefore pays all employment tax, social security and medicare tax.

One cannot arbitrarily classify an employee as a contractor, that will result in fines and penalties.

 

[1ke]

If anyone thinks folks on disability get a lot of money think again.

The person in the OP is not on disability.

Personally I have no problem paying someone on disability in cash.

The OP is a business owner with employees. He cannot simply pay one of them “in cash”-- as in not reporting the income or paying the taxes.

I might only be able to give them 20$ but I will give it to them and not think twice.

You are not talking about paying an employee then. You are talking about giving someone $20 (gifts are not taxable up to about $11K annually) or having them do an odd job and giving them $20. Yes, such a case you give them the money for the odd job and it is up to them to report it.

The OP owns a business and has full time employees. He cannot simply pay one of his full time employees “under the table”.

 

[Sunbreak]

You can pay him as a 1099, report it what you paid him, and he will bear the burden of paying for his health insurance and claiming his taxes as a 1099 employee.

No, you can only do this if he actually is an independent contractor or doesn’t make enough to fall under the rules for being a regular employee with W-2 earnings.

 

[Sunbreak]

Sure some abuse the system, but let me say this…for the most part welfare and food stamp offices in this country are 10 years behind in paper work. So a lot of the reported fraud against those receiving benefits is wrong. Most of the fraud is from within the system, believe me.

You have obviously never worked in a welfare office. I have. When I worked in that capacity, we were overwhelmed with cases, but our work was up to date in the office I was in. However, there was too much work to be able to review cases more than twice a year or when special requests were made or someone called to report suspected fraud. We also had to keep logs of every phone call and every visit. The fraud was not in the system where I worked. There were a few “clients” that tried to take advantage of the system. I agree that the great majority of the people who who were receiving benefits were definitely in need of them. I saw housing situations that most people would not want to live in.

 

[Miserissima]

No, you can only do this if he actually is an independent contractor or doesn’t make enough to fall under the rules for being a regular employee with W-2 earnings.

I apologize; I misspoke.

Why can’t the person in question become a independent contractor? I’ve been 1099 to an agency with its own employees and I was responsible for my own taxes.

 

[chaunceygardner]

What you cannot do is sin by entering into a scheme to evade taxes, defraud the government, and lie.

Simply do things legally and ethically. If he is in real need, there are many social services he can turn to. You cannot “help” him by sinning.

I must agree here. In addition to the moral consequences, an employer is taking many legal and financial risks by paying someone “under the table”. It is like cheating on your taxes: If you get caught, you will pay penalties and interest, besides the taxes themselves.

The best advice, which others have stated, is to assist this person in getting help from Catholic and other charitable organizations in the community.

 

[Beryllos]

… would paragraph 2408 in the CCC says’’ when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.would this apply to his situation?

My understanding of CCC 2048 is that it applies to more extreme circumstances. For example, if you were in danger of starving or freezing to death in the wilderness, you could justly break into a cabin to seek food or shelter. As 2048 says, “consent can be presumed” in such dire circumstances, which is to say the owner would surely give you permission if he knew you needed his property.

As 1ke wrote earlier, in the situation described in the OP, there are other social services available so that I don’t think this person’s hard times will come to starvation or homelessness. I could be wrong about that, but you should think twice before trying to bring about good by cheating the system:
1753 A good intention (for example, that of helping one’s neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just…

1759 “An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.

 

[1ke]

Why can’t the person in question become a independent contractor?

They can only do so if they meet the criteria as a contractor under FLSA rules. If so, then they could be a 1099 contractor.

An employer cannot simply classify someone as a contractor. Doing so is illegal and could reuslt in penalties.

dol.gov/whd/workers/misclassification/

However, what the employee in the OP is wanting is for the OP to not report anything– W2 or 1099. That is both illegal and jeopardizes his business.

I’ve been 1099 to an agency with its own employees and I was responsible for my own taxes.

Apples and oranges.