Moral questions regarding abortion

[mercygate]

Yes, in that you’re probably right. I believe they would also claim that a dead person is human as well.

Would they really? A dead person would be a human body. But to say that it meets the criteria of human life would be a caricature of their own position. The conceptus meets the biological criteria for “life” and that life-form is human. A cadaver is missing the critical piece of “life.”

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks, I’m glad to know how things really are now.

Well, as far as I know, mostly the scientific consensus is that life begins when brain activity begins. The reasoning is pretty logical given certain assumptions. Now, one of these assumptions is for example that there is no such thing as soul.

That’s insane. Are plants not “alive,” then, according to science?

My understanding is that science (the kind of science that recognizes that everything that grows to maturity and acquires the ability to reproduce is “alive”) acknowledges that human life begins at the moment of conception - the entire human DNA structure is present in that single cell that is created when the sperm enters the nucleus of the egg and activates the growth hormone - that single cell immediates doubles, quadruples, and differentiates into various tiny little embryonic body parts (including blood stem cells), each with its function - suddenly, the little zygote takes off swimming under its own power, heading toward the source of food in the uterus of the mother, attaches to the uterine wall, and the fetus continues to grow and develop until birth, after which time it becomes a baby, then a child, then a young adult, then a voter, consumer, and parent, and finally, (assuming no diseases or accidents, of course) a senior citizen, and ultimately (we hope) a citizen of the Heavenly Kingdom.

We will each have the same DNA after the Resurrection of the dead on the Last Day as we had at the moment of our conception - not one jot of it will be changed (even if it gets temporarily damaged here on earth due to cancer or radiation poisoning - all diseases will be cured when we are there, and we will have been restored to our “factory settings” - we will look as God had intended for us to look. ).

 

[Alterum]

What about those single women who are living in poverty? To them a baby might cause certain starvation.

If I were you, I’d just disagree with the premise. A baby won’t cause certain starvation.

 

[DaughterSorrow]

Here’s another popular argument you hear:

What is the difference between an embryo and a blood cell or a blastocyst? Why is cutting out a tumor (cells) different than getting rid of an embryo?

These are the lengths they go to to deny the reality that an embryo is life!

In Peace,
DS

 

[jmcrae]

Here’s another popular argument you hear:

What is the difference between an embryo and a blood cell or a blastocyst? Why is cutting out a tumor (cells) different than getting rid of an embryo?

Because the embryo will eventually get a job and start paying into your Old Age Pension, while the blastocyst will grow to crowd out your internal organs, and most likely kill you.

 

[boppaid]

A single woman that is pregnant if she fears starvation can always give her child up for adoption…or do what so many americans do…go on welfare!

Not if we keep electing presidents and representative who want to cut welfare! Sorry, not to mix the issues, but I had to point that out. (And not saying you are republican, either. Just talking “general”.)

 

[Karin]

Am I?
I only condone it if a women has medical problems because as far as I know, Catholic Church agrees with that. If abortion means saving the mother’s life then it should be fine. This is especially logical since if the mother isn’t saved and she dies then the baby dies as well. So correct me if I’m wrong but right now I believe I’m not.

The Catholic church DOES NOT condone abortions…
Please show me something from the Vatican that states an aboriton is ok if the woman’s life is in danger…by the way I bet you dont find anything.

In regards to if you are Catholic or not…your profile stated you where…so why lie about something like that? Either you are or your are not~

 

[vern_humphrey]

The Catholic Church unreservedly condems abortion.

catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp

The Catholic Church has always condemned abortion as a grave evil. Christian writers from the first-century author of the Didache to Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae (“The Gospel of Life”) have maintained that the Bible forbids abortion, just as it forbids murder. This tract will provide some examples of this consistent witness from the writings of the Fathers of the Church.

As the early Christian writer Tertullian pointed out, the law of Moses ordered strict penalties for causing an abortion. We read, “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [Hebrew: “so that her child comes out”], but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Ex. 21:22–24).

From ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives/011703/011703d.htm

Under Vatican ruling, abortion triggers automatic excommunication
By JOHN L. ALLEN JR.
Rome

Under a 1988 Vatican ruling, “abortion” is defined as any method used to terminate a pregnancy from the moment of conception. Abortion thus understood is always illicit, according to the official discipline of the Catholic church, and can trigger excommunication for the parties involved.

The church’s condemnation of abortion includes not only interventions to remove a fetus before birth, but the use of all abortifacients, including intrauterine devices and certain types of birth control pills that prevent implantation or stimulate uterine contractions to reject a fertilized egg. It also encompasses drugs such as RU486, called the abortion pill, which provokes miscarriages by blocking progesterone in the first weeks of pregnancy.

This expansive standard is expressed in a May 23, 1988, ruling from the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, the Vatican office charged with authoritative interpretations of canon law. The council was responding to a dubium, or request for clarification, from a bishop on canon 1398, which stipulates excommunication as the penalty for abortion.

The ban on abortion, in the sense of the deliberate termination of a pregnancy, is absolute.

(my emphasis)

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The Catholic church DOES NOT condone abortions…
Please show me something from the Vatican that states an aboriton is ok if the woman’s life is in danger…by the way I bet you dont find anything.

In regards to if you are Catholic or not…your profile stated you where…so why lie about something like that? Either you are or your are not~

Sorry, but did you read the whole thread? I’m sorry if I sound harsh (hopefully not) but I’m saying that because this issue was already concluded. As for me lying that I’m a Catholic - I have no idea how you concluded that.

 

[kim3260]

I don’t know where you receive your Religious education but you are seriously misinformed. :banghead:
Here in the US any poor pregnant woman is entitled to medical care (medicaid) and can apply for WIC (healthy foods) also many Churches and secular organizations have food banks. so this is not an excuse even for the most harden of Souls. There is no excuse PERIOD for an abortion.

 

[Island_Oak]

…A fetus (Lord, I hate that term)…

Why? It is simply a medical term that refers to an embryo that is at least 8 weeks or more past conception.
":

With great power comes great responsibility…I love that line from Spiderman! …

No wonder you love it…it’s based on the wisdom of Luke 12:48: …“from those to whom much has been given, much is expected.”

in the US abortion is permissible up to and during the actual birth process of a full term baby. This is because our Constitution, which protects the God-given right to life, was effectively overturned by Supreme court rulings in 1973 which allowed abortion during the full 9 months of pregnancy. the logic the SC majority used to make these decisions was based on so-called rights they invented, which are no where found in our constitution.

This is not what happened in Roe or the series of decisions that led up to it. Nothing was “invented” or added to the Constitution per se, any more than one could assert the Catholic Church “invented” its teaching on the immorality of abortion because Jesus himself never spoke or taught specifically on the matter.

The problem did not arise from a recognition of a right to privacy in matters of marriage, sexuality and procreation–few of us would want to argue such a right does not exist. The problem came in failing to recognize the appropriate point after conception at which the notion of “personhood” arose or attached such that the the rights of an unborn person were at least equal to that of the mother. The trimester system of evaluating a pregnancy and randomly assigning and balancing rights was flawed from the outset and never adequately addressed the scientific, much less moral evidence of when life begins.

 

[mary_bobo]

in the US abortion is permissible up to and during the actual birth process of a full term baby. This is because our Constitution, which protects the God-given right to life, was effectively overturned by Supreme court rulings in 1973 which allowed abortion during the full 9 months of pregnancy. the logic the SC majority used to make these decisions was based on so-called rights they invented, which are no where found in our constitution.

Here is probably the place to enter what I have said several times on this forum, even Ruth Bader Ginsberg, no conservative she, has said that the findings of Roe v Wade were incorrectly adjudicated. Mind you, she most certainly is in favor of abortion at any time, but this is what she said based on the law and the Constitution. Many think she is one of the most intelligent minds on the SC.

 

[JimG]

By the way, anyone knows a good way to discuss abortion with an atheist. This is particularly hard because many of them do not accept the idea of “life upon conception”.

That a new human individual begins at conception is a biological fact, not a theological speculation.

I would refer your atheist to some writings by another atheist–Nat Hentoff, an atheist, liberal, progressive author and columnist for the Village Voice, and strongly anti-abortion and pro-life. So strongly pro-life that his articles are often reprinted in Human Life Review.

Try here for a few Nat Hentoff articles.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Thanks for the replies.

kim3260:

I don’t know where you receive your Religious education but you are seriously misinformed.

Unfortunately this a state of being most people have to go through. I would love to know everything but I don’t think that can ever happen. I’m learning and I think that is important. Hopefully when I’ll be of your age I won’t make such mistakes anymore.

 

[kim3260]

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately this a state of being most people have to go through. I would love to know everything but I don’t think that can ever happen. I’m learning and I think that is important. Hopefully when I’ll be of your age I won’t make such mistakes anymore.

Hey! don’t get fresh with me, I am far from perfect. I’m just a simple country girl with only an 8th grade education so I am not “very informed” as you say and know everything, but I learned and listen to what the Church’s stand is on such things as abortion.
I also said that a pregnant woman can get help if she needs it in this Country.