Moral Relativism

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jonfawkes said:
Charism is only valid inside the church.
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I don’t know what this means, but ok. 🤷
By saying that the Koran is not part of the Church doesn’t invalidate it as God inspired. It just means it’s not part of the Church.
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Ok. I offer the same challenge to you, then. Try using the Koran in arguments here with Christians, using it as an inspired text. This should be interesting! :bounce:
 
jonfawkes said:
What is your proof of this. I know quite a few homosexuals that are prosperous and successful in all parts of their lives.
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I’m certain that you know alcoholics, drug addicts, and all sorts of sinners who are prosperous and successful. In fact,* I* am a sinner who is quite prosperous and successful. It doesn’t change the fact that sin leads us to lives of quiet desperation. To the degree that we embrace this sin is the degree that we live in darkness. When we turn away from sin, towards the Light, we will then be able to rest.
Seems contrary to this
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Again, the CC rejects nothing that is good and true in these religions, but Hinduism is most definitely NOT a valid path to God. “The** Church i**s the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation.”
 
PRmerger said:
I don’t know what this means, but ok. 🤷

Ok. I offer the same challenge to you, then. Try using the Koran in arguments here with Christians, using it as an inspired text. This should be interesting! :bounce:
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Charism is grace for Christians to do Christian works. So if it’s not a Christian work there is no need to bring it up. It is a Christian tool.

If we were discussing home improvement. It’s like saying if it’s not a carpenter tool then it can’t be used for carpentry work. It doesn’t speak to other tools that can be used in home improvement.

I’m not familiar enough with Koran to quote it. I don’t know if it’s inspired by God or not. I know that other people do. I can’t prove them right or wrong. Just as they can’t prove right or wrong that the bible is divinely inspired or not. They seem to be having a valid experience with God, as other people in other religions do. How can I say they are not?
 
PRmerger said:
I’m certain that you know alcoholics, drug addicts, and all sorts of sinners who are prosperous and successful. In fact,* I* am a sinner who is quite prosperous and successful. It doesn’t change the fact that sin leads us to lives of quiet desperation. To the degree that we embrace this sin is the degree that we live in darkness. When we turn away from sin, towards the Light, we will then be able to rest.

Again, the CC rejects nothing that is good and true in these religions, but Hinduism is most definitely NOT a valid path to God. “The** Church i**s the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation.”
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Just because you are living a life of quiet desperation, doesn’t make the experience universal. You have know idea what their relationship to God is.
 
jonfawkes said:
Charism is grace for Christians to do Christian works. So if it’s not a Christian work there is no need to bring it up. It is a Christian tool.
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Ok. I have no problem with this. 🤷
I’m not familiar enough with Koran to quote it. I don’t know if it’s inspired by God or not. I know that other people do. I can’t prove them right or wrong. Just as they can’t prove right or wrong that the bible is divinely inspired or not. They seem to be having a valid experience with God, as other people in other religions do. How can I say they are not?
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That’s fine. You really would not be able to profess any truths of Christianity to a Hindu, given your beliefs.

As for Catholics, we do have the “tools” which can be used to evangelize and to tell the Emperor he has no clothes.
 
jonfawkes said:
Just because you are living a life of quiet desperation, doesn’t make the experience universal. You have know idea what their relationship to God is.
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I didn’t say I was living a life of quiet desperation! :eek: Thanks to the Church, the sacraments, esp. confession and the One Flesh Union, my life is quite peaceful and joy-filled.

I said that to the degree that we embrace this sin is the degree that we live in darkness. When we turn away from sin, towards the Light, we will then be able to rest.

If a homosexual Hindu is embracing his sin, he is living in darkness.
 
PRmerger said:
That’s fine. You really would not be able to profess any truths of Christianity to a Hindu, given your beliefs.

As for Catholics, we do have the “tools” which can be used to evangelize and to tell the Emperor he has no clothes.
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I can only say what is true for me and try to live as an example of that truth.

I can point to this book and they can point to that one. It doesn’t prove anything. I have to live my truth and them theirs.
 
PRmerger said:
I didn’t say I was living a life of quiet desperation! :eek: Thanks to the Church, the sacraments, esp. confession and the One Flesh Union, my life is quite peaceful and joy-filled.

I said that to the degree that we embrace this sin is the degree that we live in darkness. When we turn away from sin, towards the Light, we will then be able to rest.

If a homosexual Hindu is embracing his sin, he is living in darkness.
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We are all sinners. So we all have some darkness in our lives. It doesn’t mean we live in chaos, or our lives can’t be joy filled and peaceful. We are on our own path. Splinter and the plank.
 
This conversation has been an example of moral relativism on both sides (from the parts I can see).

Thanks!
 
jonfawkes said:
I can only say what is true for me and try to live as an example of that truth.
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Yes, you clearly are at a disadvantage in your paradigm. That’s what I’m saying. You can “only” do what you profess above.
I can point to this book and they can point to that one. It doesn’t prove anything. I have to live my truth and them theirs.
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Yet, you really don’t agree to their living their own truths, if it disagrees with yours, right? (see the examples I provided for inocente).
 
PRmerger said:
Yes, you clearly are at a disadvantage in your paradigm. That’s what I’m saying. You can “only” do what you profess above.

Yet, you really don’t agree to their living their own truths, if it disagrees with yours, right? (see the examples I provided for inocente).
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I don’t have to agree with them because I’m not living their lives they are. They don’t have to accept my truth because they aren’t living my life. There being Hindus and Muslims in the world doesn’t diminish my life or experience of God.
 
jonfawkes said:
I don’t have to agree with them because I’m not living their lives they are. They don’t have to accept my truth because they aren’t living my life. There being Hindus and Muslims in the world doesn’t diminish my life or experience of God.
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Fair enough.

You’re just one of those folks who’s letting the Emperor walk around with no clothes. You may not be one of the sniggering townsfolks, but you’re letting him walk around naked. 🤷
 
PRmerger said:
Fair enough.

You’re just one of those folks who’s letting the Emperor walk around with no clothes. You may not be one of the sniggering townsfolks, but you’re letting him walk around naked. 🤷
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I don’t believe Hindus snd Muslims are spiritually “naked” just have a different fashion sense. Just because I wear jeans everyday, doesn’t mean everyone has too. They are comfortable, practical and affordable, they suit me and my life.
 
jonfawkes said:
I don’t believe Hindus snd Muslims are spiritually “naked” just have a different fashion sense. Just because I wear jeans everyday, doesn’t mean everyone has too. They are comfortable, practical and affordable, they suit me and my life.
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Again, fair enough.

But if there *were *an Emperor walking around naked, would you feel the moral thing to do would be to tell him?
 
PRmerger said:
Again, fair enough.

But if there *were *an Emperor walking around naked, would you feel the moral thing to do would be to tell him?
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If I find a naked Emperor I’ll tell him you’re looking for one. :o
 
jonfawkes said:
If I find a naked Emperor I’ll tell him you’re looking for one. :o
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You’re evading.

Do you think the moral thing to do, should one see a metaphorical naked emperor, is to tell him, or do you let him parade through the townsquare naked?
 
PRmerger said:
You’re evading.

Do you think the moral thing to do, should one see a metaphorical naked emperor, is to tell him, or do you let him parade through the townsquare naked?
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What constitutes their metaphorical nakedness? If like the story it is actual nakedness, the first strong breeze will make things pretty self evident. If it a different religion - we’ve covered that. If it is sin - Luke 6:42.

So you aren’t looking for naked monarchs?
 
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