Moral values of Muslims and Catholics

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I understand that Islam does not allow artificial birth control. I could be wrong, I don’t know.

If so, it seems to me Catholics have more in common with Muslims than Protestants in the morals department.
 
mark_a said:
I understand that Islam does not allow artificial birth control. I could be wrong, I don’t know.

If so, it seems to me Catholics have more in common with Muslims than Protestants in the morals department.
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I thought at least some Protestants would jump all over this one.
 
mark_a said:
I understand that Islam does not allow artificial birth control. I could be wrong, I don’t know.
If so, it seems to me Catholics have more in common with Muslims than Protestants in the morals department.
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Hi
Quran/Islam is with the truth, so we have common things with the Catholics, yet some other things with the Protestants.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
mark_a said:
I understand that Islam does not allow artificial birth control. I could be wrong, I don’t know.

If so, it seems to me Catholics have more in common with Muslims than Protestants in the morals department.
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This thread has no firm ground to start on. You say “I understand”, and then you say “I might be wrong”, and then “it seems to me” about protestants.

The Vatican does say muslims worship the same God as.catholics.
 
Lev23 said:
This thread has no firm ground to start on. You say “I understand”, and then you say “I might be wrong”, and then “it seems to me” about protestants.

The Vatican does say muslims worship the same God as.catholics.
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I question how the God of Christianity can be the same as the Allah of Islam.

In the Bible God tells us of Jesus, “This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”

Allah in the Qu’ran states he has no son.

God cannot lie, but there is a contradiction. How can they be the same?
 
SyCarl said:
I question how the God of Christianity can be the same as the Allah of Islam.

In the Bible God tells us of Jesus, “This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”

Allah in the Qu’ran states he has no son.

God cannot lie, but there is a contradiction. How can they be the same?
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I totally agree with you. There is no characteristic of love for Allah in the Qu’ran.
 
Lev23 said:
This thread has no firm ground to start on. You say “I understand”, and then you say “I might be wrong”, and then “it seems to me” about protestants.
The Vatican does say Muslims worship the same God as Catholics.
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I’ve spent a lot of time thinking and looking into this idea. At first I was adamant that the God that Muslims believe is not the same as the Judeo/Christian God. Meaning that the God of Islam was a false God.

But here’s what I’ve come to on this topic. I think that Muhammad never had any revelations. He was a charismatic leader and war lord who used religion for his own gain. He would not be the first or the last to do this. There were Jews and Christians around him. He learned from them and brought is misunderstanding of the Judeo/Christian beliefs into Islam. And of course he altered them to justify his supposed prophet hood. So the God that Muslims worship is the God of Abraham… but Muslims are just following the wrong prophet. There are plenty of people to who call themselves Christians who are following false prophets and leaders. Nothing to on this concept either.

The Catholic Church says that Muslims worship the same God as all Christians do. Why do they say this? Because Muslims say that they worship the God of Abraham, the one and only God. Well, if that is who they say they are worshipping then fine, that is who they worship. On the other hand, Catholics believe that Muhammad as a false prophet and hence disagree with anything Muhammad taught that does not agree with the OT & the NT.

A person can believe in God, the God of Abraham, but have most of their beliefs be very wrong because they follow the wrong teachings.
 
SyCarl said:
I question how the God of Christianity can be the same as the Allah of Islam.
In the Bible God tells us of Jesus, “This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”
Allah in the Qu’ran states he has no son.
God cannot lie, but there is a contradiction. How can they be the same?
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Because Muhammad was not talking to God. He was taking things he learned from Jews and Christians and using them for his own purposes. But no matter what Muhammad was up to, the Muslims believe they are worshipping the God of Abraham. When they call out to God, that is who they are calling to.
IMHO, we cannot question the faith of a person. There is no doubt that many Muslims are very faithful people. What is in doubt are the things that are recorded in the Islamic holy books.
 
Lev23 said:
This thread has no firm ground to start on. You say “I understand”, and then you say “I might be wrong”, and then “it seems to me” about protestants.
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I meant for the question to ask about moral values, in particular the common ground of artificial birth control.

What do you think?
 
BelFarfalla said:
Because Muhammad was not talking to God. He was taking things he learned from Jews and Christians and using them for his own purposes. But no matter what Muhammad was up to, the Muslims believe they are worshipping the God of Abraham. When they call out to God, that is who they are calling to.
IMHO, we cannot question the faith of a person. There is no doubt that many Muslims are very faithful people. What is in doubt are the things that are recorded in the Islamic holy books.
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If your going to question the God that Muslims worship than you need to question the God that certain groups of Christians worship as well as who the Jews worship. Christians do not have a monopoly on God. Different people can worship the same God while having a different understanding of Him.

Take yourself for example. Many people know you but they know different aspects of you. Your spouse does not have the same understanding of you as your children do. Your parents do not have the same understanding of you as your friends do. Does that mean that you are a different person to all these people? No, it simply means you have a different relationship with them. Your still the same person to all of them. It’s the same way with God and His relationship with the Jews, Christians and Muslims. He is still the same God, we just all have a different understanding of Him.
 
famdigy said:
According to Shiite islam Jurisprudence, Contraceptives are Allowed. See the link for further details al-islam.org/m_morals/chap4.htm

A question to catholics:
why isn’t birth control allowed in Catholicism?
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It is against God’s plan, to be fruitful and multiply.
In particular:
  • birth control pills can cause a spontanious abortion if an egg “slips through” and is fertilized
  • withdrawal- well, you see what happened to Onan
  • barriers- same effect as above
  • iud’s- prevent implantaion of a fertilized egg (if you believe that life begins at conception, this is a no-brainer)
  • morning after pill- causes spontanious abortion by design
    Before 1930, no Christian church preached that artificial birth control was acceptable.
Now I ask you, have Shi’ites always been allowed to practice artificial birth control? If not, what year did Shi’ites begin to allow artificial birth control?
 
famdigy said:
So why is birth control not allowed in Catholicism?
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Birth control is not allowed in Catholicism because it closes off the gift of life. God said be fruitful and mulitply. On top of that when you start using a contraceptive sex starts to become something you get from your partner instead of something you give to them.

Plus, many of the Contraceptives that are out on the market are abortificants which is wrong. All Christian church’s believed contraceptives were immoral until the 1930s. After that the Protestant churchs started changing their teaching on this issue.

Humanae Vitae is a really good read if you want to understand the Catholic position on this subject.
 
The article you posted has a very basic misunderstanding of Catholicism. The following is little more then anti-catholic garbage.
The question of birth control has created much debate in the Western world. This question is related to the basic view of sex. On one hand, if you relate sex to the original sin and equate it with evil, and allow sexual intercourse only for the purpose of procreation then, obviously, you will be totally opposed to birth control. Allowing birth control would mean allowing sex for pleasure. On the other hand, if you consider sex to be a natural act whose purpose is two-fold: procreation and/or fulfillment of sexual desire, then you would allow birth control. The debate on the use of birth control, moreover, is intertwined with the issue of abortion.
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Original sin has nothing to do with sex.
Catholics, like Muslims believe that sex is only allowed in marriage. It is allowed for all purposes God intended it for. To bind a couple together in love and to create children. And yes there is please involved in this. If it were a chore there would be little procreation in this world.
No one knows when the soul become part of the human life, so the Catholic Church takes the conservative stance that human life begins at conception. The major reason that birth control, such as pills are not allowed, is because they cause an abortion. They cause the fertilized egg from adhering to the walls of the uterus, ending the pregnancy by a very early abortion.
The site you pointed to seems to ignore Muhammad’s statement about birth control……
It seems from the below Hadith, that Muhammad disapproved of preventing pregnancies. In this Hadith his men are asking about using a form of preventive birth control when the rape the women war captives. Muhammad tells them 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it." So basically humans are not supposed to try to stop God from creating new souls/humans.
*ONENESS, UNIQUENESS OF ALLAH (TAWHEED)
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 506:
*Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.” Qaza’a said, “I heard Abu Sa’id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it.”
 
Sabda said:
If your going to question the God that Muslims worship than you need to question the God that certain groups of Christians worship as well as who the Jews worship. Christians do not have a monopoly on God. Different people can worship the same God while having a different understanding of Him.
Take yourself for example. Many people know you but they know different aspects of you. Your spouse does not have the same understanding of you as your children do. Your parents do not have the same understanding of you as your friends do. Does that mean that you are a different person to all these people? No, it simply means you have a different relationship with them. Your still the same person to all of them. It’s the same way with God and His relationship with the Jews, Christians and Muslims. He is still the same God, we just all have a different understanding of Him.
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There is a huge difference between personal understanding, or group understanding of God and what certain religions claim to be scripture from God.

Islamic scripture states that God ordered Muslims to convert, subjugate under Islamic rule all Christians and Jews. From what you said above, then you accept that God told the Muslims this after telling Christians something totally different in opposition to this?

If you accept that God told this to the Muslims, then you accept that they have the right to harm you and your family because their ‘understanding of God’ is that they have to do this to win the world over for Islam.

If you believe that Muslims simply have a different, but legitimate view of the same God, then why is God pitting us against each other?
 
famdigy said:
So why is birth control not allowed in Catholicism?
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I read through some of the article, but not all. I found the terminology confusing, but from the cut-n-patse below, it looks like anything goes.
It is my contention that the combination of three things form the shar’i pregnancy: the sperm, the ovum and the uterus. If any two of these things combine without the third, then it is not a shar’i pregnancy. As I shall prove below, the shar’i pregnancy begins when the fertilized ovum implants itself onto the wall of the uterus.
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mark_a said:
I read through some of the article, but not all. I found the terminology confusing, but from the cut-n-patse below, it looks like anything goes.
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yeah, the terminology is confusing especially with the foreign words, however coitus interruptus is the old school way of birth control. it means to pull out before ejaculation. It is OK in Islam however nobody answered why birth control is not allowed in catholicism
 
I would say that Muslims, practicing Muslims, are very moral. Their choice of dress and behavior is very understated…and modest. In discussing the Gods of both religions…the first large difference…is that as Catholics, we view Jesus as part of the Trinity. Muslims view God as unilateral. There is no Holy Spirit. There are not ‘three persons of God.’ (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)
according to Islam. Jesus is our Lord…but in Islam, He is one of the prophets…and obviously, not the final one. He is depicted as not having died through a crucifixion…rather, I believe that the Qu’ran states that Judas was the one crucified.

Muhammed strikes me as a man who had his own agenda, and seemed threatened by Christ’s message (and crucifixion), actually…

Just my $.02
 
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