Moral vs Venial Sin

[Scott_Waddell]

Scotchamoe:

1 other point and I’ll hush for now… Scott Waddell wrote…

I agree with the first statement, the core of all sin. The 2nd part…Death came into the world because of it… Why? Because it was the result of violation of the what God said right? So therefore it brought death. So if the wages (or result or reward) of sin (doesn’t say which sin, just says sin which would indicate all-inclusion…context) is death, then all sin is mortal.

Peace to all. In Christ,
Scotchamoe

No because “all sin is mortal” would simply be unjust. I think we have more than adequetly demonstrated the biblical basis for the distinction for mortal vs. venial sin and thus will bow out before getting caught up in excessive disputation.

 

[mercygate]

Scotchamoe:

I agree with the first statement, the core of all sin. The 2nd part…Death came into the world because of it… Why? Because it was the result of violation of the what God said right? So therefore it brought death. So if the wages (or result or reward) of sin (doesn’t say which sin, just says sin which would indicate all-inclusion…context) is death, then all sin is mortal.

Peace to all. In Christ,
Scotchamoe

If *all *sin is mortal, then how does John say “there is sin which is not mortal”? (I Jn 5:17).

How can Jesus say in Mt 5:19: “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:”

Breaking a small commandment deprives one of *greatness *in heaven (see the rest of the verse) but it clearly does not utterly deprive one of heaven.

You mention the impurity that bars entry into heaven. Yup. Catholics understand that completely. But it belongs on another thread: Purgatory.

 

[Subrosa]

****** Here is a biblical example of non-deadly sin *****

******2 Maccabees
Chapter 12

36 After Esdris and his men had been fighting for a long time and were weary, Judas called upon the Lord to show himself their ally and leader in the battle.
37 Then, raising a battle cry in his ancestral language, and with songs, he charged Gorgias’ men when they were not expecting it and put them to flight.
38 Judas rallied his army and went to the city of Adullam. As the week was ending, they purified themselves according to custom and kept the sabbath there.
39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs.
40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.
41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.
42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

Subrosa

 

[Subrosa]

Great biblical quotes! Quotes by Jesus Himself!

Mark 3:
28 Amen, I say to you, all sins and all blasphemies that people utter will be forgiven them. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin."
Luke 12:10 "Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Oh, and by the way, what was the whole point of Jesus sacrifice? Wasn’t it the forgiveness of sin?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

mercygate:

If *all *sin is mortal, then how does John say “there is sin which is not mortal”? (I Jn 5:17).

How can Jesus say in Mt 5:19: “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:”

Breaking a small commandment deprives one of *greatness *in heaven (see the rest of the verse) but it clearly does not utterly deprive one of heaven.

You mention the impurity that bars entry into heaven. Yup. Catholics understand that completely. But it belongs on another thread: Purgatory.

The only sin that is mortal is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.All other sin confessed and repented are forgiven by the Lord. So bottom line there is only one mortal sin. Everthing else is sin God Bless

 

[mercygate]

SPOKENWORD:

The only sin that is mortal is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.All other sin confessed and repented are forgiven by the Lord. So bottom line there is only one mortal sin. Everthing else is sin God Bless

You are not distinguishing between a sin which, unrepented, will bring death to the soul, and the sin against the Holy Spirit, which cannot be forgiven.

If there is only one “mortal” sin, then you need to drop I Jn 5:16-17 from your New Testament.

 

[tradcatmel]

Hi,

Our priests recommend even confessing venial sins too. I go to confession and confess faults etc.

By receiving the sacrament of penance, we are not obliged to confess our venial sins, but it is good practice to, because the more we accuse ourselves and receive God’s sanctifying grace (every time we go to confession we increase the sanctifying grace in our soul), the sacrament will strengthen us.

I would rather confess my venial sins because if I do not repent of them in this life, I may have to pay for them in purgatory in the next life.

For me, it is better to be a penitent on this side than have the temporal punishment burn out of me in purgatory.

Some souls reach the state that they even try to avoid committing venial sins, and that is a wonderful thing, because the less stain we have on our soul the better.

 

[MariaG]

mercygate:

If *all *sin is mortal, then how does John say “there is sin which is not mortal”? (I Jn 5:17).

I repeat this. As you can see, it is straight from Scripture that Catholic Christians get mortal and venial sin. Disagree with the interpretation? Great. But you definitely need to at least try to explain it because all Scripture needs to work together and cannot contradict.

Other Catholics have explained how mortal and venial does not contradict other Scripture that has been cited, there is no contradiction in Catholic interpretation, which has been guided by the Holy Spirit who said He would lead us to all truth, of all the Scripture cited.

Now explain how the absence of “sin that is not deadly” in protestant theology does not contradict Scripture? You cannot just ignore Scripture that does not fit your beliefs. Explain 1John5:17.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

SPOKENWORD:

The only sin that is mortal is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.All other sin confessed and repented are forgiven by the Lord. So bottom line there is only one mortal sin. Everthing else is sin God Bless

Hey Spokenword,
Did you realize this is the opposite view of the OP. He says ALL sin is mortal, but only one is unforgivable.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

originally posted by Scotchamoe
Ok, instead of me trying to address every post that’s in this thread, maybe I can clarify where I stand and the reasons.

Not every post, just explain 1John

Take a blank piece of paper - this represents God and His holiness (it’s a crude illustration, I know). Now take an ink pen/pencil/whatever… put 1 dot anywhere on the paper (this represents sin). The dot represents murder. Can it be in the presence of God? No. Why? It’s sin. Now… this dot represents theft of a pack of gum. Can it be in the presence of God? No. Why? It’s sin. So neither one can be attached to us and still be able to be in the presence of God.

Trust me, when I say, that murder is something that I can’t comprehend doing just to murder. Theft I can, I did it all the time as a youngster. But man’s justification of sin matters not to God. God stated sin as sin. Why? What is sin? Sin is, in a nutshell, going against the precepts, instruction, rules, regulations and will of God Almighty…agreed?

I know that this is a separate thread, but you just made the one of the strongest argument I have yet to see by a protestant in FAVOR of the sinlessness of Mary being required because of the Holiness of God. But this truly would be a separate thread.

So is it now safe to say that if I violate 1 aspect of the law, even if considered venial, I’m guilty of the entire law, which includes mortal? If that’s so, then how can there be a separation?

But you really need to explain your supposition in light of 1John, since it clearly states, there is “sin that is not deadly”.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[mercygate]

MariaG:

Not every post, just explain 1John

I know that this is a separate thread, but you just made the one of the strongest argument I have yet to see by a protestant in FAVOR of the sinlessness of Mary being required because of the Holiness of God. But this truly would be a separate thread.

But you really need to explain your supposition in light of 1John, since it clearly states, there is “sin that is not deadly”.

God Bless,
Maria

Maria – not only is it necessary to account for these apparently contradictory scriptures, but in order to account for them, one would have to deal with I Corinthians 3:15, which would lead to the doctrine of (gasp) Purgatory . . . O my.

 

[MariaG]

mercygate:

Maria – not only is it necessary to account for these apparently contradictory scriptures, but in order to account for them, one would have to deal with I Corinthians 3:15, which would lead to the doctrine of (gasp) Purgatory . . . O my.

Shhh. Let’s not overwhelm our protestant brothers and sisters in Christ too much yet. To realize that mortal and venial is straight from the Bible is probably a huge shock already!

 

[SPOKENWORD]

MariaG:

Hey Spokenword,
Did you realize this is the opposite view of the OP. He says ALL sin is mortal, but only one is unforgivable.

God Bless,
Maria

I believe all sin knowingly committed that is not confessed and repented for is mortal. God Bless

 

[gryskull]

SPOKENWORD:

I believe all sin knowingly committed that is not confessed and repented for is mortal. God Bless

If what you say is true then how can you harmonize that with what mercy just posted–1 Cor 3:15. Mortal sin kills the soul but yet St. Paul gives hope to those who die with the stain of sin in their soul.

 

[MariaG]

SPOKENWORD:

I believe all sin knowingly committed that is not confessed and repented for is mortal. God Bless

Unfortunately for you, that contradicts Scripture.

:bible1: 1John 5:17 All wrong doing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[SPOKENWORD]

MariaG:

Unfortunately for you, that contradicts Scripture.

:bible1: 1John 5:17 All wrong doing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

God Bless,
Maria

Do you believe God will forgive us without repentance for our sins? God Bless

 

[MariaG]

SPOKENWORD:

Do you believe God will forgive us without repentance for our sins? God Bless

Where did I say anything about not repenting? You are trying to change the subject without addressing scripture.

:bible1: 1John 5:17 All wrong doing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

Clearly scripture says not all sin completely cuts us off from God, not all sin is deadly.

Do you or do you not believe scripture when it say not all sin is mortal? If you believe that not all sin is the same, what implications does that have? If all sin is mortal, explain 1john 5:17?

God Bless,
Maria