Morality of a Hysterectomy (no medical advice please!)

[wanner47]

TR: by your logic, the morning-after pill has never caused an abortion either.

 

[kage_ar]

TR: by your logic, the morning-after pill has never caused an abortion either.

'course, that is what Planned Parenthood claims on their web site.

 

[CatholicSam]

I’ve yet to be convinced that the pill can be used for all the “treatments” it is dispensed for today. It does not cure any disease, only treats symptoms. The document is clear, the word is cure.

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

HV actually says:

15. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases,

Wow, good catch, kage_ar!

TR, are you taking the Pill?

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Here is an article published in a medical journal that supports the idea that
“the evidence for such effects has not been systematically reviewed”,
yet it “concludes that good evidence exists to support the hypothesis that the effectiveness of oral contraceptives depends to some degree on postfertilization effects”.

It also talks about how it would be difficult to get such evidence.

**Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent **

 

[flyingfish]

This is my understanding too, that you must remain abstinent due to the deadly risk to the unborn baby. My husband and I don’t want to be abstinent for the next thirty years, sorry. Plus ABC has nasty side effects even when NOT married and sexually active. I was on them three months for this condition and it was just awful. Had no desire to touch the things ever again. :nope:

I forgot about this until you mentioned it! Must get some.

I never heard that before, any time I saw people asking priests questions (on EWTN on here) they would say it was okay to use the pill to treat medical problems, I never saw them mention that you have to stop having sex with your spouse if you do.

Say hypothetically you had a heart condition and to stay alive you had to take medication that interfered with your reproductive system making it less likely for the egg to attach to the uterus, would you feel morally obligated to never have sex with your husband? I say this because there is a lot of negative thinking attached to the birth control pill because of the way it’s most commonly used. If it’s being used as a treatment for a medical problem, it’s just like any other drug. And I mean, many pills have all kinds of pregnancy related warnings on them.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Say hypothetically you had a heart condition and to stay alive you had to take medication that interfered with your reproductive system making it less likely for the egg to attach to the uterus, would you feel morally obligated to never have sex with your husband? I say this because there is a lot of negative thinking attached to the birth control pill because of the way it’s most commonly used. If it’s being used as a treatment for a medical problem, it’s just like any other drug. And I mean, many pills have all kinds of pregnancy related warnings on them.

That’s different. That is not the primary purpose of that medication. It’s primary purpose is to help the heart function more normally. The primary purpose of birth control pills is to prevent conception at all costs, even if that cost is preventing a newly formed preborn child from implanting and surviving.

Same goes for all sorts of medications. A lesser example as is doesn’t hurt preborn children in any way, but, rather, can prevent them from being conceived in the first place are Antihistamines (you know the stuff you take for everyday allergies, itching, congestion and sneezing?). These can also be contraceptive. Antihistamines can significantly decrease cervical mucous, and if taken for that reason alone can be sinful. But if taken to treat itching, sneezing, congestion, allergies, there is no sin. Antihistamines are what you use to treat allergies, sneezing, itching, congestion. That is their primary purpose.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

TR: by your logic, the morning-after pill has never caused an abortion either.

'course, that is what Planned Parenthood claims on their web site.

Wow, good catch, kage_ar!
TR, are you taking the Pill?

So now we all agree no direct evidence, none, never, not a single shread - good.

Here is an article published in a medical journal that supports the idea that
“the evidence for such effects has not been systematically reviewed”,
yet it “concludes that good evidence exists to support the hypothesis that the effectiveness of oral contraceptives depends to some degree on postfertilization effects”.

It also talks about how it would be difficult to get such evidence.

Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent

I am not sure what you are trying to say the article is clear that the evidence does not exist. They use much harsher language than you have selected. for those wo chose not to read it.

*“Despite the lack of quantitative data…”

"Although these changes are consistently seen in women taking OCs, there is currently no direct evidence to link these changes to preembryo or embryo loss in women taking OCs. "*

So now you agree with the rest of us.

 

[kage_ar]

So now we all agree no direct evidence, none, never, not a single shread - good.

Planned parenthood makes money twisting truth and killing babies, if they told me the sun was shining, I would go outside to see where the sun went.

I believe the scientists who work for the drug company, they would be facing lawsuits and loss of jobs if they publised lies about the drug they make.

Why do you so want to deny that this drug works the way the manufacturer says it can?

 

[EvelynEVF]

Hey, Convert–

I don’t think I saw anyone address your post about whether a hysterectomy would also tie your tubes. There are different degrees of hysterectomy. Sometimes they take just the uterus, and leave ovaries so that you still have the hormones they secrete. Sometimes it all goes, and a woman then enters menopause. Your doctor should be able to explain the pros and cons and the mechanics of each option.

All the best to you. Every once in a while I have a rough cycle, but that’s nothing to compare with what you suffer. I remember a girl back in my college dorm who was laid out flat for three days every month. People misunderstanding her was probably the worst part.

 

[wanner47]

I’m not in agreement at all, TR. I believe, based on available evidence, that both bcps and the morning-after pill can cause abortions.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I am not sure what you are trying to say the article is clear that the evidence does not exist. They use much harsher language than you have selected. for those wo chose not to read it.

"Despite the lack of quantitative data…"

*"Although these changes are consistently seen in women taking OCs, there is currently no direct evidence *to link these changes to preembryo or embryo loss in women taking OCs. "

So now you agree with the rest of us.

I took two direct quotes from the article. One that supports your position that there is no data showing this has actually happened, that there have been no systematic studies showing this, and one that says that “good evidence exists to support the hypothesis that the effectiveness of oral contraceptives depends to some degree on postfertilization effects”. They even explain why it is so hard to get the data and how there are no studies to prove either way. Just because the people interested in finding this information have not been able to, does not mean it does not happen. I say the people interested in finding this info, because something tells me that the drug companies making bundles off these pills are not going to want to dish out any money to conduct studies that might only decrease the number of pills they sell.

My point is, the pill is designed in a way that it can cause a fertilized egg, an embryo, to not be able to implant. This article says that although there is no data, like you suggest, there is good evidence that it could happen. Here is one of my lame analogies…if I know there is no data proving that people have been killed by consuming a certain chemical, because no good studies have been made to prove either way, but I know the chemical was designed in a way that could cause death, and there was good evidence of this, then you better be sure I would not let my daughter consume it. The fact that no one had studied whether or not it had happened would be irrelevant.

 

[reginacaeli]

A suggestion, but I don’t know if it would work in your case: Perhaps you’re close enough and it’s economically feasible to see one of these doctors trained by Hilgers?

fertilitycare.org/locations/usa.htm

 

[flyingfish]

That’s different. That is not the primary purpose of that medication. It’s primary purpose is to help the heart function more normally. The primary purpose of birth control pills is to prevent conception at all costs, even if that cost is preventing a newly formed preborn child from implanting and surviving.

It is the reason the pill was created and the most common reason people take it, but I don’t think you can say it has a “primary purpose”. It is just a hormone or a combination of hormones, and even if most people take it to prevent pregnancy, if that same combination of hormones can also alleviate symptoms of a medical condition how is it any different from heart medication or antihistamine or whatever?

I have just never heard priests say that people who take the pill for medical issues have to stop having sex with their spouses. Do you think you might be in a situation where you are being “more Catholic than the Pope”?

 

[Red_Meg]

I have just never heard priests say that people who take the pill for medical issues have to stop having sex with their spouses. Do you think you might be in a situation where you are being “more Catholic than the Pope”?

Fr. Vincent was kind enough to cover this question several years ago here.

The Church considers a miscarriage to be a physical evil. Since abortion DELIBERATELY causes a miscarriage, it is therefore also a MORAL evil. The Church sees an UNintended miscarriage as only a physical evil since it is not deliberately caused by the couple.

The use of the pill for medical reasons may cause an UNintended miscarriage. Women often have unintended miscarriages—sometimes without even knowing it. It is only miscarriages that are INTENDED that the Church considers immoral. The Church never allows the pill to be used as an abortifacient. But it does allow the use of the pill for medical reasons with the possiblity of producing an unintended miscarriage—without obliging the couple to abstain from sexual relations during that time.

(emphasis mine)

This is off the topic of the original hysterectomy question, but the “must abstain while on the Pill” assertion comes up on CAF so frequently that it bears repeating.

Margaret

 

[Frisky]

I just registered, just so I can respond to this.

i’m not going to go into the moral debates or medical advise. I just wanted to tell you that I had a total hysterectomy last year, and it’s one of the best things that ever happened to me. Years of suffering are over. If you do have one, and want some info about the surgery and help during the recovery time, let me know, I’ll be happy to share.