Morality of cage fighting?

[Rocko]

But, having said that. You went to him for guidance, so why not take it. In the end, you’ll be better off for sticking to your principles.

Thanks. Well, my plan was to simply take his guidance. I came to you guys for help in explaining it to my friends. Now you’ve got me wondering if I can still fight.

That’s a good point that it’s not like a real fight because there is a ref. This is why I want to go back and talk with him again - maybe he’s not quite clear on something.

 

[Rocko]

Rocko,

My cousin is a poster here and has 4 pro fights now. He went through about the same thing you have so you might want to send him a PM. He doesn’t post here much anymore but lurks a good bit.

He is “pwrlftr”.

Thanks, I’ll try to contact him!

 

[tjm190]

Yes, I am open to different view points. I was just not expecting such an overwhelming acceptance of cage fighting on Catholic Forums - simply because of the overwhelming condemnation I got when I went to the rectory. First I talked to the secretary, and he gave me several reasons why it would be bad, then I talked to a volunteer lady and she basically begged me not to do it, then finally the priest. Consequently I am a bit surprised that the Catholic Forums would give me a different response.

So, yes I am open to different view points, but man I’m sure confused!

Well different communities have different takes. I had a mini culture shock when I began to encounter creationist Catholics.

 

[peary]

I just joined a mixed martial arts school a few months ago and we’ve been training hard all summer. Last month we had a meeting and set dates for several of us to fight in the cage. They assured me I would be ready and I agreed to do it. Since then, I’ve been training very hard to make sure I would be ready.

Then the other day I stopped by my parish rectory to ask about any spiritual aspects to consider with such a sport. The priest I talked to, a former Marine, in short told me it would be gravely sinful. WOAH! I was not expecting that! I was hoping to get a patron saint to pray to or something, not a condemnation!

He explained the principle that fighting is only permissible if there is sufficient reason to do so - and “for fun” doesn’t cut it.

The problem is that, although we talked for a long time, and it was long enough to convince me I shouldn’t go in the cage, I don’t have a clue how to break the news to all my trainers, the other students in the school, and all my friends who are planning to go to my fight! There’s at least three dozen people I know of expecting me to fight - almost none of whom are very religious. I really feel like I would be letting a lot of people down by backing out. I’ve got some serious stuff to contemplate over… please help me out!

Oh and Father also told me that even WATCHING a fight would be gravely sinful because it would be condoning such activity. That’s really quite disappointing since I’ve already got a vacation day scheduled to see some of our guys fight on August 1st and I was really looking forward to it.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

I’d go in the cage!! And this is why I am of the opinion. first, martial arts is not only a form of self-defense, they are also skilled disciplines. You are not ‘fighting’ to purposely hurt another; you are engaged in a disciplinary skill with your body and training in self defense. My father used to belong in the Golden Gloves when he was growing up. I also attended professional boxing matches with him and never did a priest EVER say that this form of physical contact was ever sinful. It can be brutal, yes, and I even today do not care that much for it, but I find the ‘sinful’ aspect of it quite a stretch. I have the greatest respect for those individuals involved in the martial arts because of the discipline involved. Religion has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. If you worked that hard for it, then go for it.

 

[Norseman82]

My father used to belong in the Golden Gloves when he was growing up.

In Chicago, the Golden Gloves finals is held in the gym of a Catholic parish! In fact, (correct me if I am wrong) CYO (Catholic Youth Organization) was one of the early organizers or promoters of it.

Anyway, are there safety precautions taken? Headgear, etc.? I can understand the priest if he has concern’s about doing bodily harm, especially since he served in the Marines and most likely had such combat training. Is this an all-out fight or a spar?

Also, if you watch stuff like UFC or WEC, at the end of the fight the fighters will give each other a hug to show respect. Despite any trash talk used to generate publicity, I know of very few instances of actual hatred among MMA fighters (and those are limited to the “house drama” in “The Ultimate Fighter”).

For the record, the place where I work out does offer boxing classes, and I do join in the after-class sparring.

 

[Norseman82]

Back in the day, before liberalism in the courts and in society emasculated the American male, the typical street cop came in many sizes, but they were all strong as a bull, tough as nails and would bust your head if you gave them any lip. To take a swing at one or to run was asking to go to jail via the hospital energency room. Many of these men were combat veterans from WWII, Korea and Vietnam. These men were the biggest reason society remained polite and relatively safe.

Unfortunately these kind of men who are characteristic of real manhood are still around but no longer welcome in police work. Mixed martial arts is a beautiful expression of the raw brute power and aggression that is necessary for the preservation of a civilized society and protection from foreign enemies in times of war. The cage is where this aspect of manhood is being preserved until the people have had enough of crime and terrorism.

Just my two cent’s worth.

It is very interesting you mention this. In Chicago, high school seminarians were requiresd to learn how to wrestle, partially to teach them to be more assertive:

tigger.uic.edu/~schorsch/php/HowwrestlingwentawayfromQuigley1999.htm

 

[peary]

In Chicago, the Golden Gloves finals is held in the gym of a Catholic parish! In fact, (correct me if I am wrong) CYO (Catholic Youth Organization) was one of the early organizers or promoters of it.

Anyway, are there safety precautions taken? Headgear, etc.? I can understand the priest if he has concern’s about doing bodily harm, especially since he served in the Marines and most likely had such combat training. Is this an all-out fight or a spar?

Also, if you watch stuff like UFC or WEC, at the end of the fight the fighters will give each other a hug to show respect. Despite any trash talk used to generate publicity, I know of very few instances of actual hatred among MMA fighters (and those are limited to the “house drama” in “The Ultimate Fighter”).

For the record, the place where I work out does offer boxing classes, and I do join in the after-class sparring.

You are correct. The Chicago Golden Gloves meet to work out at St. Andrew’s gym on the north side of the city. And you are correct about the CYO being one of its earliest promoters. The junior division uses safety gear, such as headgear and the like.

 

[Norseman82]

You are correct. The Chicago Golden Gloves meet to work out at St. Andrew’s gym on the north side of the city. And you are correct about the CYO being one of its earliest promoters. The junior division uses safety gear, such as headgear and the like.

Additionally, one of the fundraisers for the Mercy Home (two Catholic homes, one for boys and one for girls) is a charity boxing match called “Ringside for Mercy’s Sake”:

mercyhome.org/ringsidedetails/

 

[Rocko]

I just talked to my pastor today after Mass. (A different priest) and he said he would need to research the sport of MMA itself, and then get back to me. I guess it depends on the brutality of it. He said that Pope Leo XXIII condemned professional boxing because of its knock-out tendencies.

 

[Norseman82]

I just talked to my pastor today after Mass. (A different priest) and he said he would need to research the sport of MMA itself, and then get back to me. I guess it depends on the brutality of it. He said that Pope Leo XXIII condemned professional boxing because of its knock-out tendencies.

Please keep in mind, too, that in professional boxing, headgear is NOT used.

 

[Rocko]

Please keep in mind, too, that in professional boxing, headgear is NOT used.

What? I’ve never seen pro boxers using head gear

 

[tjm190]

What? I’ve never seen pro boxers using head gear

That’s his point. Amateur boxing specifically attempts to reduce the probability of knock outs. Professional boxing does not

 

[Norseman82]

What? I’ve never seen pro boxers using head gear

My bad - I had forgot to put NOT in my original reply. I know what you’re probably thinking - that I need better headgear, right?

 

[jjb5985]

It’s good that you are seeking moral guidance on this. I do not believe it would be a sin at all and never even thought of it as potentially sinful, but I can’t tell you that for sure. The problem is many well meaning priests aren’t immune to being wrong on moral issues. I would suggest posting a message on the ask an apologetic forum or maybe even send Jimmy Akin an email and see if he could post a blog post on the issue. www.jimmyakin.org

That way you know you are getting solid guidance.

 

[Rocko]

My bad - I had forgot to put NOT in my original reply. I know what you’re probably thinking - that I need better headgear, right?

Oh, now it makes sense! Haha! So now I’m wondering if MMA would be alright - specifically because there are other ways to win (i.e. submission hold) and knockouts are not necessary

But it’s all up to the priest. If he says no, even after research, I can’t go in the cage.

 

[Rocko]

That way you know you are getting solid guidance.

Thanks, I think I may do that. The Catholic Answers Team is very knowledgeable and I’m sure they could give me some solid guidelines to go by.

That being said, the church I go to is run by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and I have never met a FSSP priest who was not extremely knowledgeable and holy. So I do trust their judgment.

 

[Norseman82]

Oh, now it makes sense! Haha! So now I’m wondering if MMA would be alright - specifically because there are other ways to win (i.e. submission hold) and knockouts are not necessary

But it’s all up to the priest. If he says no, even after research, I can’t go in the cage.

What type of safety gear do you wear? Do you wear headgear? No-foul protectors?

Keep in mind too that you also need to make sure the other guy does not knock YOU out. The exposing of yourself to serious injury may be another concern regarding the morality of MMA fighting.

Again, is this a spar or an all-out fight? If it is an all-out fight, have you done any sparring to practice for this?

 

[Mickey_Finn]

But it’s all up to the priest. If he says no, even after research, I can’t go in the cage.

Thats a sound decision. :thumbsup:You don’t want to go shopping around too much for answers.

 

[Rocko]

What type of safety gear do you wear? Do you wear headgear? No-foul protectors?

No headgear. What’s a foul protector? We do wear mouth guards and nut cups

Keep in mind too that you also need to make sure the other guy does not knock YOU out. The exposing of yourself to serious injury may be another concern regarding the morality of MMA fighting.

True. Good point. But I could also tap out at any time.

Again, is this a spar or an all-out fight? If it is an all-out fight, have you done any sparring to practice for this?

The cage would be an all-out fight. And I’ve been sparring all summer with the guys on my team.

 

[peary]

Yes, I am open to different view points. I was just not expecting such an overwhelming acceptance of cage fighting on Catholic Forums - simply because of the overwhelming condemnation I got when I went to the rectory. First I talked to the secretary, and he gave me several reasons why it would be bad, then I talked to a volunteer lady and she basically begged me not to do it, then finally the priest. Consequently I am a bit surprised that the Catholic Forums would give me a different response.

So, yes I am open to different view points, but man I’m sure confused!

That’s because we’re more grounded in ‘reality’.