Morality of Duterte

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Continuing the discussion from What is it with Poland?:

@dallas_r

Based on what ive heard, he’s killing drug addicts simply for being addicts… big nono IMO
 
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Ok so I will start with the fact I have not hear any Catholic arguments towards him. I am an actual Filipino and hold the traditional Pinoy values. I am also very conservative. The Philippine government has been plagued with corruption, lies, drugs, and greed for a long time. Duterte has been putting an end at this in a matter of months that presidents took terms to do. Senators like DeLima are trying to play the EU and the US, for she is involved with drug scandals as other senators, mayors, and politicians are as well. DU30 has cleaned the streets, fed the poor, used the people’s tax money wisely to benefit the lower class Filipinos, unlike older presidents. What most people do not know about him is he offered rehab for drug addicts and drug lords and offered jobs if they would simply surrender. But them, choosing to harm others, continued their path to destruction and the destruction of others, plaguing Filipinos everywhere, especially youth. Not only that, but he has been putting a stop to terrorism in Mindinao (I swear, the Philippines is safe, the travel warnings are garbage. I would have been killed by now), dropping airstrikes, deploying the SWAG special forces (cool name) and beefing up the police. He also booted out corrupt police and put in a man named Bato which means “rock” in tagalog as new chief of police because he has been hard working and stood with Duterte in fighting corruption since he was a mayor in Davao. Rodrigo is a good man with a good heart and good intentions. Right now, I feel like his actions have been justified. As for the killings, he has given them plenty of warning and so much time. Offering rehab and even a job is very rare for a Filipino to have, as most of them make $3 minimum wage.
 
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I do not have enough knowledge of the factual situation to form a judgment, though it is reasonable to presume that someone who draws such ire from the MSM must be doing something right.

However noble the intention, extrajudicial executions as a regular policy cannot be moral, since they inherently involve a grave risk of executing the innocent. The Philippines should, of course, re-instate the death penalty for drug dealers.
 
I’ve never liked Duterte ever since he made fun of that Australian/Protestant missionary who got raped and killed (this was when he was mayor), and joked how pretty she was and that the kidnappers should have given him first honors as mayor! Then he’s stubborn and twists things when called out on it.

Not a good idea to side with this guy. I understand the drug problem is serious, but he’s far too brutal.

 
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straykat said:
I’ve never liked Duterte ever since he made fun of that Australian/Protestant missionary
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You must keep in mind he was joking as he is a very sarcastic man. Was it in bad taste? Yeah. Was it in bad taste Australia tried to get in the Philippine election and literally support every other candidate but Duterte? At least Rodrigo admitted his wrong in a quick fashion unlike some American politicians I know. cough bill clinton
So many Clinton supporters will be willing to bash Duterte but do not even care about their president’s scandal. Bill clinton had sex with Lewinski for not one, but two years! This boi literally lied to the face of the American people on numerous occasions and hence his greatest quote of all time “I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me … I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.”

And even after he issued the horrid statement, continued to lie, for months until he worked up the courage to actually tell the truth.

Actions are worse than jokes.
 
I agree… jokes are more harmless. But boy is that a terrible joke.
 
straykat said:
I agree… jokes are more harmless. But boy is that a terrible joke.
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I don’t think that English is President Duterte’s native language, maybe it loses something in translation?

A former coworker of mine is going to retire to the Philippines, that’s where his wife is from. From what I understand from speaking to him, is that the area the Duterte is from is the real “backwoods” area of the country, a start contrast with westernized, modern Luzon.
 
God is against the unjust and lawlessness. Executions without trial or a judge are wrong. Excusing it because their cause agrees with your personal beliefs is typical for the world. However Christians are challenged to defer to God, be compassionate and love the truth.

Whoever is free of sin may cast the first stone, too many, that are supposed to be the salt of the earth have decided that they are worthy to pick up the stone and kill their brother or go along with it.
 
Augustinian said:
Duterte is from is the real “backwoods” area of the country, a start contrast with westernized, modern Luzon.
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No, all of the Philippines is westernized lol. It’s amazing after being so historically oppressed, we haven’t lost our cultural traditions.
 
Duterte reminds me of Trump. Both will do what they say they will do and both have no filter between mouth and brain. Bright side, you know where they stand unlike too many politicians.
 
Given that the Philippines has the capacity to detain drug dealers in prison, I don’t see how the death penalty would be compatible with the Church’s teaching on this subject. The most natural interpretation of the Church’s teaching is that the death penalty, while not absolutely proscribed, should be imposed only in circumstances in which the state is incapable of detaining offenders in prison. I tend to imagine that the Church is envisaging a situation such as Nazi-occupied Poland, where a form of judicial process continued to be exercised by the legitimate Polish government, which had, of course, no penal infrastructure, meaning that the death penalty was one of few means of protecting the interests of the Polish state and people under those circumstances. In the case of the Philippines imprisonment would seem to be the only penalty permitted by adherence to the plain sense of the Church’s teaching.

Furthermore, I’d mention that in the modern world, excluding examples such as North Korea, China, the USSR, Nazi Germany, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc., the jurisprudence of death penalty retentionist states has almost without exception considered the death penalty for crimes other than murder (or war crimes, treason, etc.) to be disproportionate. For example, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the death penalty cannot be imposed for sexual offences in which the victim is not also murdered.
 
Londoner said:
Given that the Philippines has the capacity to detain drug dealers in prison,
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That’s questionable if they do or not. There have been a number of notorious prison breaks in the Philippine Republic. They’ve certainly had a much greater problem than America in that regards.
 
The headline “Duterte orders his troops to shoot women in the vagina” probably tells us quite a lot about Duterte’s morality. He governs with an open disregard for the rule of law. People worry about the direction being taken by various countries, including the UK, USA, Poland, and Hungary, but there is no comparison with what is happening in the Philippines. It’s arguably more worrying even that what’s happening in Turkey. Duterte believes that he is entitled to use unlawful violence with impunity. That is not a moral position to take.
 
That’s an argument for improving standards in their prisons. I’m not persuaded that the Philippines meets the criteria for legitimate use of the death penalty as laid down by John Paul II and the Catechism. I think the Church envisages the death penalty being used in situations where there basically is no functioning state (e.g. civil war, occupation by a foreign power, or absolutely massive natural disaster), not where the state needs to run its prisons more efficiently.
 
Londoner said:
Given that the Philippines has the capacity to detain drug dealers in prison, I don’t see how the death penalty would be compatible with the Church’s teaching on this subject. The most natural interpretation of the Church’s teaching is that the death penalty, while not absolutely proscribed, should be imposed only in circumstances in which the state is incapable of detaining offenders in prison.
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That’s an extremely novel interpretation, historically speaking.
For example, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the death penalty cannot be imposed for sexual offences in which the victim is not also murdered.
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Having the US Supreme Court against you is an indicator of being right.
 
Arkansan said:
That’s an extremely novel interpretation, historically speaking.
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I’m not speaking historically. I’m citing Catechism 2267: ‘Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.” [John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae 56]’

The Church’s teaching is talking about today, not historically. I know that there are Catholics who continue to argue that the Church is not against the death penalty, but it is very difficult to see how one can arrive at that conclusion based on the available documents. Also, I do not know of any national or regional conference of Catholic bishops that does not oppose the death penalty. The Catholic bishops of the Philippines themselves are strongly opposed to the death penalty.
Arkansan said:
Having the US Supreme Court against you is an indicator of being right.
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Well, the US Supreme Court is tasked with interpreting the law of the United States. If you dislike some of the court’s judgements (I assume e.g. Roe v. Wade) that is surely more a problem with US law, not the court per se. Anyway, I was just citing the court’s judgements as one example. Like I say, most death penalty retentionist states impose the death penalty only for murder. In my own country, the UK, the death penalty was restricted in 1861 to five offences: murder, plus treason (ceased to be capital offence 1998), espionage (ceased to be capital offence 1981), arson in various premises connected with the Royal Navy (ceased to be capital offence 1971), and piracy with violence (ceased to be capital offence 1998). We also retained the death penalty for various military offences such as assisting the enemy or mutiny (death penalty abolished for all offences 1998). You can’t really put drug dealers in the same category as people who commit other non-murder offences such as treason or assisting the enemy.
 
Londoner said:
The headline “Duterte orders his troops to shoot women in the vagina” probably tells us quite a lot about Duterte’s morality.
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It might, and then it might not. President Duterte is really disliked by the news media in his own country as well as those outside of the Philippines. Its easy to take a statement out of context to try and muddy their name. The statement of Duterte could easily be overstated wildly or even totally innocent, but spun to look demonic.
 
Philippines needs a president like that, unfortunately.

I find that his critics have paid good PR money to release exaggerated negative publicity about him outside the Philippines.

Unless you actually move out of the Philippines, one doesn’t realize how extremely elitist the society is. Unfortunately for the “elite” now, the masses, working class folks have found a voice - - much to their chagrin.
 
Heard that the Church offered a vigil for the well known drug lord and senator DeLima. This is sick, a vigil for a drug lord.
 
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