Morality of kava kava use?

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Some of you may not be familiar with this particular legal drug. It’s a soft one from what I’ve heard (there are kava bars for example), and is traditional among islanders such as Hawaiians. The US has not banned its use. If it doesn’t impair reason, is it lawful? I know the catechism condemns drug use, but it doesn’t get into theological specifics, so I’m wondering if speculation and disagreement is permissible here — like my question about whether a drug that isn’t dangerous to health or doesn’t impair reason is morally licit. Alcohol and tobacco are soft drugs that have managed to escape condemnation, so that makes me feel that health risks and impairment of reason are the key factors to take into account when determining the morality of the use of a substance. I don’t want this to be about marijuana, but if it were weak MJ then maybe it would fall under this argument too.
 
WoundedIcon said:
Some of you may not be familiar with this particular legal drug. It’s a soft one from what I’ve heard (there are kava bars for example), and is traditional among islanders such as Hawaiians. The US has not banned its use. If it doesn’t impair reason, is it lawful? I know the catechism condemns drug use, but it doesn’t get into theological specifics, so I’m wondering if speculation and disagreement is permissible here — like my question about whether a drug that isn’t dangerous to health or doesn’t impair reason is morally licit. Alcohol and tobacco are soft drugs that have managed to escape condemnation, so that makes me feel that health risks and impairment of reason are the key factors to take into account when determining the morality of the use of a substance. I don’t want this to be about marijuana, but if it were weak MJ then maybe it would fall under this argument too.
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Full disclosure: This is just my take; the mileage of someone else with more authority may vary.

IMNSHO, if 1) it’s not illegal, and 2) it doesn’t endanger health or impair reason, and 3) one is not spending time or resources enjoying its effects that would be better spent on other things, then I don’t see a problem.

Side note: in our society alcohol may be considered a “soft drug,” but I heard once from an expert that if alcohol had just been discovered, it would be classed with the narcotics, and you’d have to have a prescription to get it.
 
WoundedIcon said:
Some of you may not be familiar with this particular legal drug. It’s a soft one from what I’ve heard (there are kava bars for example), and is traditional among islanders such as Hawaiians. The US has not banned its use. If it doesn’t impair reason, is it lawful? I know the catechism condemns drug use, but it doesn’t get into theological specifics, so I’m wondering if speculation and disagreement is permissible here — like my question about whether a drug that isn’t dangerous to health or doesn’t impair reason is morally licit. Alcohol and tobacco are soft drugs that have managed to escape condemnation, so that makes me feel that health risks and impairment of reason are the key factors to take into account when determining the morality of the use of a substance. I don’t want this to be about marijuana, but if it were weak MJ then maybe it would fall under this argument too.
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Wounded, here’s the Cathechism, it is not compendius to everything man can put into ones body. Faith, reason, prudence and temperance come into play. The body is the temple of the Holy Sprit and we must take reasonable care of it. I would discuss with you local priest…having the catechism in hand as you do is a good idea. Another test: If Jesus himself were in front of you right now, how would you feel about telling him about your use of this? Do you feel this makes you more Holy? We are called to grow in holiness.

2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.

Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.

2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it’s sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

Here’s another link…I am not a kava expert but it does appear to have medicinal benefits. I would discuss its use for the latter with my doctor as it can harm the body.

nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/872.html
 
DaveBj said:
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Side note: in our society alcohol may be considered a “soft drug,” but I heard once from an expert that if alcohol had just been discovered, it would be classed with the narcotics, and you’d have to have a prescription to get it.
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NO, EtOH is a mood-altering CNS (central nervous system) depressant. It is not a narcotic in either the chemical or legal sense.
 
Porknpie said:
Wounded, here’s the Cathechism, it is not compendius to everything man can put into ones body. Faith, reason, prudence and temperance come into play. The body is the temple of the Holy Sprit and we must take reasonable care of it. I would discuss with you local priest…having the catechism in hand as you do is a good idea. Another test: If Jesus himself were in front of you right now, how would you feel about telling him about your use of this? Do you feel this makes you more Holy? We are called to grow in holiness.

2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.

Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.

2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it’s sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

Here’s another link…I am not a kava expert but it does appear to have medicinal benefits. I would discuss its use for the latter with my doctor as it can harm the body.

nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/872.html
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This brings up a great point about therapeutic use… Kava kava is a natural anti anxiety HERB for those that do not know what kava kava is its a herb for relaxation similar to valerian, chamomile, St. John’s wort, etc. you can buy it at a grocery store and has almost no side effects many wonder if kava kava does anything or if it is a placebo effect. All this being said to the op’s original question the legality or otherwise safe status of kava would mean nothing if you are taking it to get high … If you are taking it for a medical reason like anxiety reduction as a sleep aid no it is not sinful or morally corrupt in any way.
 
Aschecte said:
This brings up a great point about therapeutic use… Kava kava is a natural anti anxiety HERB for those that do not know what kava kava is its a herb for relaxation similar to valerian, chamomile, St. John’s wort, etc. you can buy it at a grocery store and has almost no side effects many wonder if kava kava does anything or if it is a placebo effect. All this being said to the op’s original question the legality or otherwise safe status of kava would mean nothing if you are taking it to get high … If you are taking it for a medical reason like anxiety reduction as a sleep aid no it is not sinful or morally corrupt in any way.
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I have also heard that the substance sold in stores here is NOTHING like the real plant and really may not do much of anything, whereas the native plant (thought it was a root) is much stronger and prepared in a drink. Since kava is not regulated, you might not be getting much of anything in what is sold in health food stores here. Just a caveat. It is a sedative and anesthetic so I would use it only as a medication and not a recreational drug.
 
Actually, Germany rescinded its ban on the substance after getting slapped around by proof that the study showing that kava is liver-toxic was actually BS. The study that was disproved used massive doses of kava, and parts of the plant that even islanders avoid. Also, some of the test subjects were heavy alcohol users.

I have a link, and there seems to be another link there, but I’ll look for more.

konakavafarm.com/kava-liver-damage.html
 
Also, reading the Wikipedia page for it, it does seem to be the case that it’s (generally) safe.

Regardless, I plan on using a powdered capsule form from a trusted supplement maker for therapeutic uses — so I guess, for me, that the morality is already settled.
 
CatherineOH said:
NO, EtOH is a mood-altering CNS (central nervous system) depressant. It is not a narcotic in either the chemical or legal sense.
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He may have used different terminology; I am dragging something up from 30 or so years ago. But I think the point that one would have to have a prescription to get it is still valid.
 
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