Morality of NFP to limit family size

[olive456]

How serious does a reason need to be in order to permanently limit family size? I know the obvious reasons such as possible genetic defects, health risks to the mother etc.

What if a couple finds that 3-4 children (or possibly more) is a reasonable number of kids and decides to invest their emotional resources on them without stretching their resources on any more?

I ask this because I noticed on another thread a poster mentioned a ‘grave’ rather than a ‘just’ reason is necessary to licitly limit family size. Is that true?

 

[Xantippe]

How serious does a reason need to be in order to permanently limit family size? I know the obvious reasons such as possible genetic defects, health risks to the mother etc.

What if a couple finds that 3-4 children (or possibly more) is a reasonable number of kids and decides to invest their emotional resources on them without stretching their resources on any more?

I ask this because I noticed on another thread a poster mentioned a ‘grave’ rather than a ‘just’ reason is necessary to licitly limit family size. Is that true?

Why don’t you read Humanae Vitae for yourself and find out?

Here’s are two quotes to start you out:

“Married love, therefore, requires of husband and wife the full awareness of their obligations in the matter of responsible parenthood, which today, rightly enough, is much insisted upon, but which at the same time should be rightly understood. Thus, we do well to consider responsible parenthood in the light of its varied legitimate and interrelated aspects.”

“With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.”

 

[Corki]

My pastor said that any reason that is not a selfish reason can be a just reason to use NFP.

That being said, I am always a little uncomfortable with using an arbitrary number to determine family size. When you read Church documents about family planning, there is an emphasis on “next child” and “at the present time”. Family planning is an ongoing process. In any given month, the couple prayerfully asks themselves if there is a just reason **at this time **to delay having another child. What is a just reason this month may not be 6 months or a year later.

Of course there are some reasons that will never change. Advanced maternal age or a life-threatening health condition are examples.

 

[1ke]

Yes, the problem with “grave” (and I used to use that term myself before I knew better) is that the original document doesn’t say “grave”. One particular translation uses it, and that is NOT the Vatican’s own translations on it’s website. Even “serious” seems to be a translation that doesn’t convey the full meaning as I’ve come to understand it from the Latin (wish I knew Latin better).

And the document certainly says nothing about having to have increasingly “grave” motives to use NFP for longer periods of time.

 

[Usige]

My pastor said that any reason that is not a selfish reason can be a just reason to use NFP.

That being said, I am always a little uncomfortable with using an arbitrary number to determine family size. When you read Church documents about family planning, there is an emphasis on “next child” and “at the present time”. Family planning is an ongoing process. In any given month, the couple prayerfully asks themselves if there is a just reason **at this time **to delay having another child. What is a just reason this month may not be 6 months or a year later.

Of course there are some reasons that will never change. Advanced maternal age or a life-threatening health condition are examples.

The key points in your post are that the decision making should be on going and not motivated by selfish desires. When people ask how many kids we plan on having we jokingly say “we’ll let you know we God tells us we’re done.”

 

[olive456]

Why don’t you read Humanae Vitae for yourself and find out?

Here’s are two quotes to start you out:

“Married love, therefore, requires of husband and wife the full awareness of their obligations in the matter of responsible parenthood, which today, rightly enough, is much insisted upon, but which at the same time should be rightly understood. Thus, we do well to consider responsible parenthood in the light of its varied legitimate and interrelated aspects.”

“With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.”

My pastor said that any reason that is not a selfish reason can be a just reason to use NFP.

That being said, I am always a little uncomfortable with using an arbitrary number to determine family size. When you read Church documents about family planning, there is an emphasis on “next child” and “at the present time”. Family planning is an ongoing process. In any given month, the couple prayerfully asks themselves if there is a just reason **at this time **to delay having another child. What is a just reason this month may not be 6 months or a year later.

Of course there are some reasons that will never change. Advanced maternal age or a life-threatening health condition are examples.

Do you think it’s reasonable that some couples believe they are not called for having large families and therefore limit their family size? Some couples might find that any more than X amount of kids would be too pressing on them…

Yes, the problem with “grave” (and I used to use that term myself before I knew better) is that the original document doesn’t say “grave”. One particular translation uses it, and that is NOT the Vatican’s own translations on it’s website. Even “serious” seems to be a translation that doesn’t convey the full meaning as I’ve come to understand it from the Latin (wish I knew Latin better).

And the document certainly says nothing about having to have increasingly “grave” motives to use NFP for longer periods of time.

Thanks for that. From what I heard the correct translation is ‘just reasons’.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

My pastor said that any reason that is not a selfish reason can be a just reason to use NFP.

That being said, I am always a little uncomfortable with using an arbitrary number to determine family size. When you read Church documents about family planning, there is an emphasis on “next child” and “at the present time”. Family planning is an ongoing process. In any given month, the couple prayerfully asks themselves if there is a just reason **at this time **to delay having another child. What is a just reason this month may not be 6 months or a year later.

Of course there are some reasons that will never change. Advanced maternal age or a life-threatening health condition are examples.

Very well said!

 

[Bookcat]

The Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

1. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

1. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

(serious does not mean only “life or death” but it does mean serious (not seeking say to collect cars or something)…the couple must judge before God - all sorts of serious reasons can arrive in life that may give rise to a judgment that one use NFP to avoid a new child. In judging such of course it is wise to take the words of St. John Paul II into account of the great gift even for the other children of another brother or sister)

 

[Bookcat]

Thanks for that. From what I heard the correct translation is ‘just reasons’.

No it is not a question of translation but of word use. Yes “just reasons” have been used too (but think - one must have a “just reason” to use deadly force too - and that of course needs to be rather serious -like protecting ones life in self defense when that is the way one needs to go).

But the term “serious reasons” is likely the best -and the one that gets used in the most recent Church documents.

 

[Bookcat]

The Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

497. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

498. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

(serious does not mean only “life or death” but it does mean serious (not seeking say to collect cars or something)…the couple must judge before God - all sorts of serious reasons (one can see then general categories in Humanae Vitae) can arrive in life that may give rise to a judgment that one use NFP to avoid a new child. In judging such of course it is wise to take the words of St. John Paul II into account of the great gift even for the other children of another brother or sister)

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Do you think it’s reasonable that some couples believe they are not called for having large families and therefore limit their family size? Some couples might find that any more than X amount of kids would be too pressing on them…

Thanks for that. From what I heard the correct translation is ‘just reasons’.

How do you find out that you are “called to have a certain specific number of children?” How does one decipher if it is what you want or what God wants? How do you know the difference? Is it just, “gee it is tough sometimes/mosttimes” If so, then we would have stopped at 0 kids…

I have always wondered what this calling for family size is, and how one deciphers it…

 

[Xantippe]

How do you find out that you are “called to have a certain specific number of children?”

I have always wondered what this calling for family size is, and how one deciphers it…

Yes.

There’s also the issue of infertility. I may feel “called” to have 8 biological children, but if it’s not happening, it’s not happening.

I would think that rather than setting out with a particular number in mind, it’s most prudent and reasonable to just play it by ear and see how things work out.

 

[Usige]

How do you find out that you are “called to have a certain specific number of children?” How does one decipher if it is what you want or what God wants? How do you know the difference? Is it just, “gee it is tough sometimes/mosttimes” If so, then we would have stopped at 0 kids…

I have always wondered what this calling for family size is, and how one deciphers it…

We can only discern it through prayer. When we set a limit before hand we start to build walls to shut God out of it. If you asked me when we got married 20 years ago I would have said we were only “called” to have 1 or maybe 2. He had other plans for us; neither my wife or I would have thought we would have 6 kids and be open to more. Now it’s a discussion after prayerful consideration so we don’t draw a line in the sand.

 

[Usige]

I would think that rather than setting out with a particular number in mind, it’s most prudent and reasonable to just play it by ear and see how things work out.

I agree we should play it a little more by ear and trust to providence a bit more.

 

[Corki]

Do you think it’s reasonable that some couples believe they are not called for having large families and therefore limit their family size? Some couples might find that any more than X amount of kids would be too pressing on them…

No, I don’t think that is a good way to look at family. For one thing, having a large family is an objective good. It’s not something only particular couples are called to. All Catholic couples are called to welcome children lovingly from God and a large family is the “default”. In other words, ideal circumstances should lead to large families. It is the problems of life (finances, health, special needs, etc) that lead to intnentionally smaller families.

The other thing is that idea of more children being “too pressing”. That’s a fluid situation. Having another child when you already have 3 pre-schoolers might be something you want to delay but having another child after the older ones are in elementary school would not create the same pressures. That’s why family planning is a month-by-month decision making process and not a once and final decision.

 

[Regina7]

I don’t think a “serious” reason for limiting family size can be based on finances.

Of course, having enough money to send kids to college is much different than having enough to actually feed these kids. The latter constitutes a serious reason, the former does not.

 

[Bookcat]

How do you find out that you are “called to have a certain specific number of children?” How does one decipher if it is what you want or what God wants? How do you know the difference? Is it just, “gee it is tough sometimes/mosttimes” If so, then we would have stopped at 0 kids…

I have always wondered what this calling for family size is, and how one deciphers it…

Prayer, reason (perhaps advice even).

It is not like I can say “I am going to have only one child cause that is what I want”. But it may be that one discerns that one is called to be generous and seek to have many kids - or it may be that one judges to not “seek” so much as to see who may arrive (that is one is not seeking to find the best time to engage in marital relations but one is simply living normally) - or it may be that one may judge that one has serious reasons to avoid another child - and thus has recourse to periodic continence (NFP) to avoid another conception…
In all cases one is to remain open to life.

 

[TyburnTreeHuggr]

I don’t think a “serious” reason for limiting family size can be based on finances.

Of course, having enough money to send kids to college is much different than having enough to actually feed these kids. The latter constitutes a serious reason, the former does not.

I agree! neither of my grandparents graduated from high school (in the early 40’s), grandpa worked as a travelling salesman, they had seven kids, barely made ends meet at times, and now- all their children have college degrees after paying their own way (with one being a doctor).

I’m just a young guy starting a family, but if a family of nine can make it alright on a lower income than mine, what do I have to worry about?

 

[1ke]

I don’t think a “serious” reason for limiting family size can be based on finances.

This is your opinion, but it isn’t Church teaching.

I think everyone needs to be aware that Olive has a sensitive conscience, perhaps even leans a little towards scrupulosity. In trying to help her understand Church teaching, we must not unduly burden her with what the Church DOESN’T teach.

The Church teaches that economic, social, emotional, and physical reasons are part of the discernment process. So, yes, finances absolutely can be part of this discernment process.

 

[Bookcat]

I don’t think a “serious” reason for limiting family size can be based on finances.

Such would be not a correct opinion. The Church specifies that the finances (economic reasons) can be a serious reason.