Morality of Nursing Homes

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If you are a spouse, and your husband or wife wanted to donate money to his aging parents and you wanted the money for yourself and your own family, would you ever even consider stopping your spouse from financially supporting his family?
That is really such a broad question that it is hard to answer anything other than, “It depends.”

Adult children have an obligation to look after the welfare of aging parents. But that obligation, like so many other things, has to be balanced against all other obligations. In my understanding, the obligation of parents to care for minor children caries more weight than the obligation to care for parents. In, other words, if it is a matter of choosing between the needs of one’s children and the needs of one’s parents, then the needs of one’s children should be met first. While the needs of the parents should be of higher priority than the mere wants of one’s children, I think that the wants of one’s children should often (but certainly not always) come before the wants of one’s parents.

One’s first obligation is to one’s marriage and only after that to the parents. This means that spouses should be in agreement about money spent on parents. If one spouse is opposed to spending money to help the parents of the other then there could be many reasons. The spouse could just be selfish. The spouse might think that the parents do not really have such a great need. The spouse may be worried about the needs of other family members, perhaps children, perhaps his/her own parents.

Caring for aging parents is a sacrifice that is demanded of many families. But if a spouse disagrees about the money to be sent to the other spouse’s parents then the two need to talk and figure out why there is a disagreement. Sometimes the money should be sent; other times it should not be sent and/or some other arrangements might be called for.
 
One’s first obligation is to one’s marriage and only after that to the parents.
Is this morally correct? How can a spouse of a person compare to the woman who sacrificed her life to raise that person? How can the husband/wife of a person compare to the mother who breastfed that person and to the father who gave life to that person? Can a spouse of a person compare to that person’s very own parents?

Would anyone be absolutely repulsed if your spouse stopped you from financially supporting your wife because your spouse was a money digger?
 
Is this morally correct? How can a spouse of a person compare to the woman who sacrificed her life to raise that person? How can the husband/wife of a person compare to the mother who breastfed that person and to the father who gave life to that person? Can a spouse of a person compare to that person’s very own parents?
Absolutely. From Matthew’s Gospel "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh"

Keep in mind:
  1. the mother didn’t “sacrifice her life.” If that’s the call God gave her, then she fulfilled her life by keeping to her call;
  2. not all children were breastfed, so that isn’t always true;
  3. the father doesn’t give life to anyone, only God does. We just assist in the process.
 
Is this morally correct? How can a spouse of a person compare to the woman who sacrificed her life to raise that person? How can the husband/wife of a person compare to the mother who breastfed that person and to the father who gave life to that person? Can a spouse of a person compare to that person’s very own parents?
Yes, it is morally correct to put the marriage before the parents.

But keep in mind, the needs of the marriage come before the needs of an individual spouse. However the marriage itself has duties that spring from the nature of marriage.
Would anyone be absolutely repulsed if your spouse stopped you from financially supporting your wife because your spouse was a money digger?
I would be repulsed.
 
Are you currently having problems with your own spouse and parents regarding this issue and is this why you are having these questions? I ask because the scenarios you pose seem very personal. I’m very sorry for you and your family if this is the case. It is a tough situation with many difficult decisions.
Have these questions regarding the morality of nursing homes struck a sense of guilt within any of the posters that answered the poll? Has anyone in these forums placed their unwilling parents into nursing homes just to neglect them… and justify their actions by saying that nursing homes are nice and comfortable?
Both my parents and my husband’s parents are too young to even think about going into nursing homes or needing extra care. I know for myself that I would honour the wishes of my parents and of my in-laws as best as I can. Knowing that my mother does not want me to ever place her in a nursing home tells me that I shouldn’t and won’t. Plus, I promised that I wouldn’t. I don’t mind that because my mother was self-sacrificing and totally giving to all of her children. She’s of a culture where children care for their parents mostly at home. (I’ve rarely been in a nursing home where there were Asian or Filipino elderly people.) So, I do understand her thinking.

But my father, on the other hand, he would fight me tooth and nail if I insisted that he’d stay with us. He has insisted on numerous occassions that we were to place him in a nursing home if is it needed. He is a doctor (takes care of many older patients who absolutely love him and he loves them) and has seen some families broken apart when a parent(s) take up all the responsibility of care for children who do take their role as caretaker seriously, but the responsibilities are too great for them to handle. It made the younger children suffer. He has also seen neglect of parents when some parents do live at home with their children.

The flip side is true as well if you do not place a parent in a good nursing home facility or the mere fact that there are children who don’t visit their parents. But, in actuality, if those children didn’t visit their parents in the nursing home, they more than likely did not visit them when they were living in their regular homes, just basing it on my father’s patients and other older people I, myself, had met and befriended. The children who still visit their parents in the nursing homes, had always given time to them. For instance, many parents will receive visits from their children once or twice a week - more if they live near by. Just because they are moved into a nursing facility, does not mean those visits will stop. It is already established that the children love their parents. So, the logic that the visits will stop does not make sense. Of course, if the children never visited their parents at their regular home in the first place, why would that change now? It was already immoral of those children to not care much about their parents - especially if their parents were good people and did much for them.
Regarding the logic that children are sometimes too poor to support their own parents outside nursing homes, how can anyone agree with this argument when parents, even if the parents themselves were poor, still took care of the children when they were young?
In most normal situations, caring for an elderly person with many problems is much more expensive than caring for a child. People have gone bankrupt (the elderly parent and the adult child) from doing things like this, when it comes to the healthcare costs. That is rarely heard of with a child’s care and healthcare costs - unless the child does have major medical problems. If the elderly parent doesn’t have many costs, then it probably isn’t that much different having him/her live with the adult child. But in terms of a parent having, for example, full-blown Alzheimers, it can be financially devastating. My husband’s grandfather who had full-blown Alzheimers, was eventually placed in a nursing home. They had a nurse to come in at first to the house, but at night he was constantly trying to get out of the house, and you really needed at least two professional people to care for him which became very expensive. After a lot of deliberation, it was decided by all the children that he’d be placed in an Alzheimer’s facility where he’d receive 24 hour care. The way the laws worked in their state is that all the money from the estate of the elderly person’s home would be used for the cost of the nursing home. But even if that money ran out, their nursing home was not allowed to ever kick a person out. The state government would cover the costs. I know that not all states work like that, though.
It gave a lot of peace of mind to the adult children that their parents, especially their father, were getting the 24 hour care which was needed and they visited both parents frequently. (Again, these children visited their parents in life prior to their new home.)
If you are a spouse, and your husband or wife wanted to donate money to his aging parents and you wanted the money for yourself and your own family, would you ever even consider stopping your spouse from financially supporting his family?
Of course not. His parents are wonderful people. But before anyone passes judgement on another couple, we have to consider the family situation. Perhaps the parents of one of the spouses are total you-know-whats and have treated the other spouse like dirt. I can understand the hesitation of not wanting to donate money to them. Of course there are just selfish people in the world, but these questions make it seem it’s all black and white. In real life situations, especially with these scenarios, it is sometimes far from black and white.
 
Is this morally correct? How can a spouse of a person compare to the woman who sacrificed her life to raise that person? How can the husband/wife of a person compare to the mother who breastfed that person and to the father who gave life to that person? Can a spouse of a person compare to that person’s very own parents?
A man leaves his father and mother and joins with his wife. There are many things in the gospel that need to be explained. But that line is pretty clear. The two become one.
It seems like you feel that since a mother doesn’t put her child up for adoption, she is owed care for the rest of her life. And by the way my Mom didn’t breastfeed me. :shrug:Not all moms do.
Would anyone be absolutely repulsed if your spouse stopped you from financially supporting your wife because your spouse was a money digger?
I am guessing you mean parents/mother rather than wife in the sentence that I underlined. It seems like you first need to work out problems in your marriage. If you feel that your spouse is a money digger, then that is something you need to talk about. But maybe you feel that way because your spouse doesn’t want to spend a lot of money on your parents.
In my situation, if my spouse wanted to start spending a lot of money on his parents, I would have a problem with it. Not because I am a money digger, but because I know his parents.
 
Yes, it is morally correct to put the marriage before the parents.

But keep in mind, the needs of the marriage come before the needs of an individual spouse. However the marriage itself has duties that spring from the nature of marriage.

I would be repulsed.
I just wanted to add that I would be repulsed if it was really true that the spouse was a money digger. But sometimes the adult child may perceive the spouse as a money digger when the spouse is simply being realistic.

I realize that in some cultures it is expected that children take in aged parents as the normal means of support for the parents. But that is a cultural idea, not a moral idea. Other cultures have the idea that the parents are supposed to have made arrangements for themselves and the adult child only steps in if the parents become incompetent to administer their own care. If spouses come from different cultures then they need to work this out before marrying.
 
I would rather be killed than stuck in a home so I couldn’t really send my parents or brothers to one. Nursing homes seem like a more cruel way to euthanize an elderly or sick person when you don’t have the guts to do it yourself.
 
I would rather be killed than stuck in a home so I couldn’t really send my parents or brothers to one. Nursing homes seem like a more cruel way to euthanize an elderly or sick person when you don’t have the guts to do it yourself.
Or maybe they are a way for a parent to get the nursing care they need. Since I am not a nurse, if my parents come to the point that they need around the clock nursing care what am I supposed to do? Quick get a degree?
 
Or maybe they are a way for a parent to get the nursing care they need. Since I am not a nurse, if my parents come to the point that they need around the clock nursing care what am I supposed to do? Quick get a degree?
Sometimes the children aren’t able to provide and a nursing home is the only option other than just accepting death. If the choice is ever mine I will just accept death in my own home rather than go to one of those dark scary places. My parents and brother feel the same way so I could never stick them in a home.
 
I would rather be killed than stuck in a home so I couldn’t really send my parents or brothers to one. Nursing homes seem like a more cruel way to euthanize an elderly or sick person when you don’t have the guts to do it yourself.
It depends on the nursing home. Some places are horrible. Others places are very nice and you receive excellent care - sometimes better than what they would receive at home depending on the situation. My husband’s grandmother loves her nursing home. They take her on outings to different places, she gets a lot of social interaction with the other residents, she sings in their chapel choir, they have entertainment weekly and daily, weekly hair and nail appointments, and she gets frequent visits from the children who live near by. The home recently did a huge renovation that makes the inside look like a pretty Victorian-era place. There are plenty of outside sitting areas with beautiful gardens and seatings, a little fish pond, etc. It would be considered middle-of-the-road (meaning for more middle class income people), but the place is rather nice.

The reason why my father is not against the idea at all of living in one if needed (he’s still way too young - still practices as a doctor and is only 62 and in better health than most 40 year olds) is because of the fact he has done a lot of calls on patients who lived in very nice nursing facilities. In the past, that wasn’t the case. The homes were not great and he still knows that there are places like that now and would not want to be in a place like that. But today there are really nice nursing homes that he knows he would be very happy to live in, knowing what the staff is like and what is offered in them.
 
I think it all depends on the reasons why children place their parents into a nursing home. My mother had me promise her a few years back that she will never go into one, so if it comes to my mother needing much more care later on in life, it will be up to me (hopefully my siblings will help as well) to give the appropriate care for my mother. If I go against my mother’s wishes and the promise I made to her, then I believe it would be immoral of me to do it.

My father is of a totally different mindset, though. He doesn’t believe that he or my mother should expect their children to be 24 hour caregivers to either one of them. Instead, he had me promise that if needed he’d be placed in a nursing home. Going against his wishes and breaking my promise to him would be immoral as well.

There are many different kinds of nursing homes and assisted living homes as well. Some are really nice which offer everything to monthly concerts and such as the residents were people who were very much into the arts. I’ve been booked in such placed to give vocal recitals and such. The places are sort of like mansions. There are others which are middle of the road and still give excellent care. My husband’s grandmother is in such a place and she loves it there because she has a lot more interaction with other men and women of her age, loves the nurse/aid staff and gets the 24 hour care that she needs. The children who live near by visit her often like they would have if she was living in her regular home. The difference is she’s no longer alone in a house during the week with not much interaction and stimulation. If she lived at one of the children’s homes, she would especially be isolated since both people in the households work all day. So, actually, it is better for her to be around many people and care and she prefers it.

But you also have really horrible nursing homes which give bad care, have very clinical-looking rooms, etc. I think if family can give care from home if all they could afford is this kind of facility, then it might be better to have their parent at their home or hire a person to be there for the parent.

It is a very difficult situation, no matter what. Many older people need constant care which requires medical professionals and in some ways, depending on the laws of each state, it is much more affordable to have a parents receive that constant care in a nursing home rather than have a private caregiver come to the house. My father brought up an interesting observation. He’s a doctor and takes care of many elderly patients, visiting them in nursing homes and such. It’s one of the reasons he doesn’t mind going to a nursing home if needed because the ones he’s been to are nice and have excellent staff. There are more people living longer today than there were 30+ years ago when he started his practice. His parents and many people in his parents’ generation, for instance, didn’t have this dilemma of how to care for aging parents who need extra care than what they can give. Of course there were nursing homes back then as well. The baby boomer generation (his generation) has been experiencing it with their own parents and he knows that our generation will feel the same thing as his generation continue to age. It’s not a coincidence, I think, that there are so many more nursing/assisted living homes popping up all over the place. They are making room for the baby boomers.
Unfortunately we can not always honor our promises. My grandfather had althimers and never wanted to go into a home (he watched his mother die of the same thing in a home) and he made everyone promise he would not go into a home. However, when he sadly did develop althimers he became violent -calling my grandmother a b**** and physically assaulting her, calling her the “evil twin” and actually attempting to leave the house on his own. My grandmother didn’t want to accept anyones help in having him stay with them. It was her decision - she was his wife for 60 years. He had to go to a home in the end. Unfortunately they did not take very good care of him and a simple cold they never treated developed into phnemonia (with them still insisting it was a cold and my family had to take him to the hospital ourselves)

and the one thing we could honor for him was his wish to not have his life saved my extraordinary means - he did not want to live with althimers and made a DNR. I still miss him, and hate that nursing home, but sometimes it’s unavoidable. All I can say is chose one wisely if it comes down to it.
 
Sometimes the children aren’t able to provide and a nursing home is the only option other than just accepting death. If the choice is ever mine I will just accept death in my own home rather than go to one of those dark scary places. My parents and brother feel the same way so I could never stick them in a home.
Sometimes it’s not quite that simple. Death might not be right around the corner. The choice might be “neglect” rather than death. One elderly parent trying to care for his/her spouse in their home even with adult children helping, may not be enough to meet the basic needs.

To the op:

I realize it is very difficult to watch your parents get old and sick. Assuming you married a good person, your spouse may see the situation more objectively than you. My husband loved my parents, but he was also able to see that they needed more care than I could provide. We had young children that also needed my attention, and we had obligations to take care of our children as well as my parents. (At one point we had to rush a toddler to the emergency room because while I was doing something for my parents, our toddler got into some of their medications.)

Because of the advances in modern medicine, people can and do live longer. What might have once seemed “extreme” or was not even available, is now considered “routine care.” With sufficient help, many elderly persons with serious medical conditions can continue to live at home or with relatives, but many factors must be considered. If the family can not provide all the neccesary care, private nurses and/or aides might be able to help–but that is costly and good help may be hard to find. Often the family can provide help for a while, but the situation may change over time to the point that nursing home care is requirred. It is not immoral to put a parent with serious medical needs in a nursing home.

I don’t know the specifics situation of your parents’ situation, but it might be helpful to talk to a social worker or discharge planner at a local hospital about their situation and what options may be available to your parents.
 
It depends on what the parent wants and needs and what the adult child is able to provide. For example, some people need quite a bit of care as the age and grow infirm. It can be difficult and very expensive to provide the proper care in a regular home where the adult children are working and caring for their own children. In a situation like that it may be better for the aged parent to move to a nursing home/retirement community where he can receive the proper medical/nursing care.

Unless your parent is suffering from dementia (which may be a reason also to place them in a more secure environment where they will have 24 hour care), this is a decision that should be talked through with them. This is not a decision that one spouse can make unilaterally–especially if the care of the aged parent requires any additional care that the spouse will be involved in.
Is it moral and honorable for children to place their aged parents into nursing homes?

Is placing aged parents into nursing homes a parallel to children throwing their parents away and neglecting them?

Question for spouses:
If you are a husband or wife, have you ever encountered this scenario:

You have just married your wife or husband, and overtime your parents are becoming old and weak and need financial support (or any other support). However, you, as a child of your parents, cannot donate money to your parents because your spouse wants the money for herself or himself.

Have your spouse ever stopped you from helping your parents?
 
Regarding the logic that children are sometimes too poor to support their own parents outside nursing homes, how can anyone agree with this argument when parents, even if the parents themselves were poor, still took care of the children when they were young?
Trust me… it CAN happen. I’m a single woman. And a sole caregiver. I was forced to quit my job, because outside care agency’s became too expensive. I’m now as poor as a church mouse. I have nothing. No income of my own. We exist on my mother’s small pension, with no financial aid from my siblings or extended family members.

If mother’s pension were to somehow “dry up” (and in THIS economy… it is an all too real possibility :sad_yes:)… what would I do? She needs 24 hour supervision. And since I have no husband, and no family who are willing to become involved… I would have no other option, but to place my mother into a care facility… so I could return to the work force.

I think I understand the motives in your original question. It appears that you’re trying to appeal to the hearts of “people who dump the elderly into nursing homes, because they don’t want to be caregivers”. You’re asking them to think about it. But the question is quite “sweeping” and some unfair assumptions have been made.

I think the point people are trying to make here… is that most people don’t INTEND to just dump the elderly in homes and abandon them. True, there are many elderly folks who sit in nursing homes and have no one to visit them. 😦 But I’ve come to understand the “plight of the caregiver” very well, too.

If I had to place my mother into a home, and go back to work… I would still make every effort to visit her as often as possible and take her on outings. But there are people who have big families, job responsibilities and other circumstances… which make it difficult to visit Mom or Dad, often. My heart goes out to them… too.

I pray for them all. The frail elderly and those called to the vocation of caregiving. I pray for all adult children, faced with the care of an elderly parent. This is my life… and I know what they’re going through. The emotions (and sometimes, the decisions) can be heart-wrenching.

God bless.
 
Is this morally correct? How can a spouse of a person compare to the woman who sacrificed her life to raise that person? How can the husband/wife of a person compare to the mother who breastfed that person and to the father who gave life to that person? Can a spouse of a person compare to that person’s very own parents?

Would anyone be absolutely repulsed if your spouse stopped you from financially supporting your wife because your spouse was a money digger?
It sounds like the two are coming at this from different cultures. Given the family name of your moniker, let’s just say you have a Vietnamese and an American from the US. For the Vietnamese even with many changes in family structure in the past years, there is still a strong emphasis on the group/family. Even if a child may be rebellious there is still that underpinning of filial piety. The parents on their part will also feel that they should be taken care of by their children

Americans on their part are probably among the most individualistic people in the world. Probably started with the Protestant philosophy starting in Europe, but further compounded by the need for most people to immigrate here. The people will feel that their first and main priority is that to their spouse and children. The rest of the family is still important, but not of the highest priority. In this case the parent in old age may not want to burden a child, nor harm the relationship. The child may feel much the same way. Added to that is the improvements in health care, that extend the life of an a person in bad condition, where they may really need the care, the supervision, and equipment in a nursing home.

Trying to mix the two cultures without realizing or being open to the differences in cultures can create a bad situation. To the Vietnamese, the American may come off as selfish and greedy, but the American may have a different standard. To the American, the Vietnamese may seem too tied to ascribed roles, and has an unjust loss of freedom due, but to the Vietnamese they may have a different standard.

So I guess to bring this tangent back to the question at hand, I’ll say both spouses are probably living unaware of these assumptions. The one spouse probably has much guilt and resentment of the other spouse. That parents of that spouse may also feel lonely. The other spouse may feel completely justified in the stance taken, but has no idea of the harm being done.

So while I say there is a morality question regarding nursing homes and dumping parent/people there, the real issue here is the one of disharmony in marriage. How do you change that. It can be very difficult if one or both spouses are not open to bringing out those assumptions, but talk about the differences. With respect to the parents, if there is little that can be done about having them in a nursing home, bring them as as many personal items as you can. If you are of a different culture, try to arrange to bringing food (since there can be special diet needs). Visit as much as possible.
 
My dad is in a Veteran’s Home a little over an hour from where I live. Does he want to come home? Absolutely! However, the amount of care he requires makes that impossible. So, both my brother and I visit every weekend and I try to make it to most of his appointments. Also, we bring him home for day trips several times a year. They do have lots of activities for him and he also has several visitors weekly. This would not happen if he were at home. My mom tried to care for him in the home before she died of throat cancer. It was a terrible situation and what made it even worse is that NO ONE came to visit my dad at home. I think they thought they would be intruding. There are others who comment to me that they just hate nursing homes and can’t bring themselves to visit where he is now. You just can’t please everyone!

Kathy
 
Americans on their part are probably among the most individualistic people in the world. Probably started with the Protestant philosophy starting in Europe, but further compounded by the need for most people to immigrate here. The people will feel that their first and main priority is that to their spouse and children. The rest of the family is still important, but not of the highest priority. In this case the parent in old age may not want to burden a child, nor harm the relationship. The child may feel much the same way. Added to that is the improvements in health care, that extend the life of an a person in bad condition, where they may really need the care, the supervision, and equipment in a nursing home.
Is this the type of individualism that propels people to neglect their parents in nursing homes? Individualism? So a parent in old age is BURDENING his child when he asks his child to take care of him in his old age? So when a parent is sick and elderly and too old to stand independently, the child has the right to feel burdened by the parent’s need for the child to help the parent? So when an sick and old parent asks their children to take them in and care for them, that parent is guilty of “harming the child’s spousal relationship” ?

Did the Parents of the child have a right to claim that the birth of their baby was a burden and therefore the parents had to value their own spousal relationship above their obligation to take care of the baby child? Did the parent have the right to claim that the child’s constant need for constant care was “harming” the parent’s right to individualism? The parents took care of the baby child no matter how poor they were, no matter how much “individualism” they lost because of the child, no matter how burdened they felt by the child. And yet, when time passes, when the parent then in turn needs help from their own seed, their own children whom they raised, the children claim their own individualism as an excuse to neglect the parent? Is this individualism or blatant dishonor and ungratefulness?
 
To the OP: I might be misinterpreting what you have been saying, but it seems to me that there is an assumption that when an adult child places a parent into a nursing home facility, that the adult child is automatically neglecting his/her parent. I think that is assuming too much. There is no question that there are negligent children, but one has to realize that those children were negligent for many years prior to having to come to the point of caring for their parent. They didn’t just suddenly change. A family who has always been close and cared for each other will not neglect each other if people’s situations change - such as a parent having to move into a nursing home or assisted living facility.

Sometimes, for a parent to be living with an adult child - it’s actually more neglect because the adult child may not be able to provide the necessary and appropriate care for the parent for whatever reason - lack of ability, lack of funds, etc. Sometimes, parents want and would rather be in a good nursing home or assisted living facility rather than live with their parents. It may be because they also have what a previous poster mentioned, an individualistic outlook and don’t like the idea of living with their children. It may not even be because they think they would be burdening their children, but that they just don’t like the idea of having to live with their adult child. It may be that they prefer to have a lot of social interaction with various people and not be stuck in the house all day or with just a little group of people. It may also be that they feel more comfortable being close to good, around-the-clock medical care which they may not be able to get if they live at their child’s home no matter how much the child tries.

What also has to be taken into account is that sometimes, parents weren’t great parents to their children. Sure, they might have given birth but with the belief that they’d be out of their hair by 18. I’ve heard parents talk like this about their own children. It’s very sad. They can’t wait until they grow up because having kids were a pain in the neck to them. They just continually looked forward to another year of letting them have independence. These kids grow up not seeing much love or support and don’t have a great attachment or affection towards their parents. They will place their parents in a nursing home out of guilt and obligation. Also, on the flip side, some children are abusive - verbally and physically - towards their elderly parents living with them. I think of one poor older lady, who has since passed away, but was living with her son. He was a man who was basically crazy and verbally abused his mother. She had a walker and oxygen and lived in absolute filth because her son didn’t clean. I have no idea how she was able to do things on her own - like even going to the bathroom, because when I tried to help her (and I am a pretty strong gal), I had a very difficult time trying to lift her and hold her up on my own. She should have been in a nursing home for years prior to going into one. Her life would have been much better for more years had she been placed in a good nursing home. She had people there who cared about her and took care of her, who didn’t verbally abuse her. Who kept her clean and kept her living conditions clean.

As other posters have mentioned, it seems to me that you are currently having problems with your spouse regarding your own personal situation with parents. Only your situation is very individual and can only be handled and figured out by those of you who are involved. If there is a culture difference, there needs to be a true understanding on either side as to how to approach this. If a spouse is truly selfish and is not just because of a misunderstanding of culture, then that is something prayer and therapy would be warranted. Prayers for you and your family.
 
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