Morality of Paying Taxes

[Aquinas11]

The answer to (A) is yes, we are compelled to pay taxes. We are supposed to follow the law unless the law breaks God’s laws.

Second sentence contradicts first sentence (if law mandating taxes breaks God’s law)

Paying taxes is the law and does not break Divine Law. Therefore, yes, one is compelled to pay taxes.

This would mean following directive’s of civil authorities (law mandating taxes) can’t break Divine law, which is contradicted by Catechism 2242, which says we’re obligated to not follow directives of civil authorities under certain circumstances. Even quotes Matthew 22.

2242 : The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. “ Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s."48 "We must obey God rather than men ”:49

When citizens are under the oppression of a public authority which oversteps its competence, they should still not refuse to give or to do what is objectively demanded of them by the common good; but it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against the abuse of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the Law of the Gospel.50

 

[on_the_hill]

Regardless, it’s cheaper to pay taxes than to go to jail.

 

[Aquinas11]

Regardless, it’s cheaper to pay taxes than to go to jail.

Sure, if financial self interest should be one’s primary motivator…but I don’t recall that Gospel passage.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

The answer to (A) is yes, we are compelled to pay taxes. We are supposed to follow the law unless the law breaks God’s laws.

Second sentence contradicts first sentence (if law mandating taxes breaks God’s law)

Paying taxes is the law and does not break Divine Law. Therefore, yes, one is compelled to pay taxes.

This would mean following directive’s of civil authorities (law mandating taxes) can’t break Divine law, which is contradicted by Catechism 2242, which says we’re obligated to not follow directives of civil authorities under certain circumstances. Even quotes Matthew 22.

2242 : The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. “ Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s."48 "We must obey God rather than men ”:49

When citizens are under the oppression of a public authority which oversteps its competence, they should still not refuse to give or to do what is objectively demanded of them by the common good; but it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against the abuse of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the Law of the Gospel.50

So, are you saying it was immoral for faithful Catholics to pay taxes in Germany during Hitler’s rule?

I would argue that NO, it was not immoral because the act of paying taxes is morally neutral.

Citizens do not share guilt with immoral governments unless they knowing VOTED for the evil or knowingly helped the govt carry out their immoral actions. But paying taxes is not immoral because all govts (even corrupt, evil ones) do some good with taxes.

 

[imo]

Well, but you can´t say the DO NOT PAY would be immoral.

 

[niceatheist]

Ok, I get. But the company refuses to pay me legally? I can’t force the company without loosing my job eventually.

If they’re not taking withholding taxes, they’re breaking the law. They are, in effect, stealing. The most ethical choice is to phone the IRS, but that might expose you to risk. The middle ground solution is to find a job with an employer who obeys the law. Sooner or later the IRS will catch up with your employer. Count on it. Like any kind of crime, the more someone commits it, the greater the odds they will get caught, and you probably do not want to get caught up in it.

 

[phil19034]

Well, but you can´t say the DO NOT PAY would be immoral.

The “DO NOT PAY” would be breaking the law… So…

 

[imo]

Yes, but the Cathecism itself says that you MUST brake the law when it is immoral

 

[whatistrue]

But paying taxes is not immoral.

 

[phil19034]

Yes, but the Cathecism itself says that you MUST brake the law when it is immoral

Paying taxes is NEVER immoral. It is a neutral act.

Tax payers are NOT responsible for any evil the govt does with taxes. HOWEVER, voters are responsible if they knowingly vote for evil and govt employees are responsible if they knowingly do something immoral.

BUT paying taxes is morally neutral. It is NEVER immoral to pay taxes. It’s actually immoral to NOT pay taxes.

THINK ABOUT IT - You are basically saying that every good person (Jewish, Catholic, Romani, etc) in Nazi Germany was guilty for the crimes of the Nazi’s just because they paid their taxes. It does NOT compute.

God bless.

 

[imo]

No, I am just saying that the good people that withhold the payment of taxes could be justified. It is a grey area, people should follow their conscience.

I am not sure, but it seems that during the conquest of the Papal States, the Vatican itself prohibited catholics to vote.

 

[Aquinas11]

the act of paying taxes is morally neutral.

Citizens do not share guilt with immoral governments

Tax payers are NOT responsible for any evil the govt does with taxes.

and we’re back to the strawman
(A) whether one is compelled to pay taxes, and
(B) whether one is morally responsible for what government does with the paid taxes

are two different topics. I’m discussing (A), not (B) which is strawman.

 

[phil19034]

No, I am just saying that the good people that withhold the payment of taxes could be justified. It is a grey area, people should follow their conscience.

I am not sure, but it seems that during the conquest of the Papal States, the Vatican itself prohibited catholics to vote.

Voting and paying taxes are not the same thing.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

the act of paying taxes is morally neutral.

Citizens do not share guilt with immoral governments

Tax payers are NOT responsible for any evil the govt does with taxes.

and we’re back to the strawman
(A) whether one is compelled to pay taxes, and
(B) whether one is morally responsible for what government does with the paid taxes

are two different topics. I’m discussing (A), not (B) which is strawman.

I don’t get it then. You are saying it is ok to refuse to pay your taxes. Aren’t you saying it’s immoral to pay taxes when the some of the taxes are being used to support immoral things, like abortion? Or do I have you confused with someone else.

I’m saying it’s not ok to withhold your taxes. What am I missing.

 

[Aquinas11]

You are basically saying that every good person (Jewish, Catholic, Romani, etc) in Nazi Germany was guilty for the crimes of the Nazi’s just because they paid their taxes. It does NOT compute.

The irony is you’re saying its immoral for a faithful Catholic in Nazi Germany to decide to withhold taxes in his good conscience (2242 below), even after observing Jews being executed in concentration camps since

It’s actually immoral to NOT pay taxes.

2242 : The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. “ Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s."48 "We must obey God rather than men ”:49

 

[imo]

imo:

No, I am just saying that the good people that withhold the payment of taxes could be justified. It is a grey area, people should follow their conscience.

I am not sure, but it seems that during the conquest of the Papal States, the Vatican itself prohibited catholics to vote.

Voting and paying taxes are not the same thing.

Yet, the article of the Cathecism that cites both is the same and they are read together. So if it was a difference of gravity, the Cathecism would be bad written.

[2240] Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:

 

[phil19034]

The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel .

Paying taxes is not contrary to the demands of the moral order and not contrary to fundamental rights of persons or the Gospel.

Where a citizen would be obliged not to follow the directives of the civil authorities is when they demand such as these:

• Doctor X, you must perform that abortion
• Nurse Y, you must assist with that abortion
• Citizen Kane, you must tell us where the Jews are so we can round them up in death camps.
• Sergeant Doe, you must open fire on that crowd of unarmed protestors.
• Japanese Farmer, you must spit on & walk all over this icon of Jesus or face imprisonment and/or death.
• Roman Citizen, you must publicly deny Christ or be burned alive.
• African Martyr, you must deny the Divinity of Christ and accept Allah or be beheaded.

Those are directives of the civil authorities which are “contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel.”

Paying taxes is not contrary.

HOWEVER, if one wants to be a martyr and be arrested for not paying his taxes to an evil govt, perhaps God would find the person innocent of sin; but OBJECTIVELY SPEAKING, we are obliged to pay our taxes.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

imo:

No, I am just saying that the good people that withhold the payment of taxes could be justified. It is a grey area, people should follow their conscience.

I am not sure, but it seems that during the conquest of the Papal States, the Vatican itself prohibited catholics to vote.

Voting and paying taxes are not the same thing.

Yet, the article of the Cathecism that cites both is the same and they are read together. So if it was a difference of gravity, the Cathecism would be bad written.

[2240] Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:

I’m sorry, but you are twisting what I’m saying.

CCC 2240 says we are morally obligated to pay taxes, exercise the right to vote, and defend one’s country.

YOU are the one that said the Pope told people not to vote when the Papal States were invaded & occupied.

I was simply saying that the situation you referenced about the Papal States is different than paying taxes to your govt.

 

[Socrates92]

So, would you interpret this, morally, to be mean that the government, as soon as it sanctions a single gravely immoral activity (abortion) defacto forfeits its right to expect payment of any taxes whatsoever? Does it matter how distant the grave moral evil is? If the government forfeits its right to collect taxes, does it cease to be a government? Or does the principle of double effect kick in, and say that the harm of wholesale rejection of the government’s authority outweighs the remote benefit?

 

[phil19034]

Do you have a source for this? Is this from St. Thomas Aquinas or is it your own conclusion?