Morality of Using Stem-Cell Cure

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Nechasin

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I have searched the forum and I did not find a thread that was what I was looking for.

I am against Embyronic Stem-Cell Research, and I’m a Type 1 Diabetic. So, how do I answer people when they ask would I use a cure that was developed from embryonic stem-cell research? This question has bothered me for some time, and I just don’t know the answer to it. I pray that a cure is found from other means so I don’t ever have to face this reality.

I apologize if this question has been asked. If so, please point me to the right thread.
 
I have searched the forum and I did not find a thread that was what I was looking for.

I am against Embyronic Stem-Cell Research, and I’m a Type 1 Diabetic. So, how do I answer people when they ask would I use a cure that was developed from embryonic stem-cell research? This question has bothered me for some time, and I just don’t know the answer to it. I pray that a cure is found from other means so I don’t ever have to face this reality.

I apologize if this question has been asked. If so, please point me to the right thread.
Kinda like asking you if you would use an organ from a clone, isn’t it? There haven’t been any promising developments in embryonic stem cell research. They are too unstable. Any help at all has come from adult stem cells.
 
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Nechasin:
I have searched the forum and I did not find a thread that was what I was looking for.

I am against Embyronic Stem-Cell Research, and I’m a Type 1 Diabetic. So, how do I answer people when they ask would I use a cure that was developed from embryonic stem-cell research? This question has bothered me for some time, and I just don’t know the answer to it. I pray that a cure is found from other means so I don’t ever have to face this reality.

I apologize if this question has been asked. If so, please point me to the right thread.
I, too, have a disease that may be conducive to therapy from stem cells, either embryonic or adult.
I simply say that, if a cure were developed from embryonic stem cells, I would not use it. If one were developed from adult, cord blood or other-species cells, sign me up.
There are skeptics, but I can’t prove a negative nd I can’t worry about the opinions of others.
 
Let me say that even doctors and scientists even favor of ESC usage know that cures are many years away and will probably only come about successfully throguh therapuetic cloning. The other draw back is that EC are hard to grow and they are known to cause tumors. Adult Stem Cells appear to becoming more abundant, easier to grow and like others have said have been found to be fairly successful plus by culturing ones own stem cells, rejection will not occur since the body recognizes them as self (ESC from embryos would be seen as foreign). The problem is that the media has distorted progress in this field and seem to make it sound that laws are what is holding it up. Also, some of the biggest pushers in the area of ESC research happen to be CEO’s or share holders in pharmaceutical companies who could make a huge windfall from being able to experiment on ESC’s even if they dont prove viable to be used for cures. Finally lets put it in an ethical perspective, the Nazi’s made huge advances in skin graft therapy for burn victims by experimetning on Jews. We learned much from them, but no one would say, thank the Nazi’s for their work. Let others know that you believe personhood begins at the moment of conception and would not want to directly benefit from their death.
 
I usually phrase it this way
If I was in need of a heart transplant and I found someone with a compatable heart, would it be morally permissible for me to kill them and take their heart?
If not why not?
Of course, you will get the response

“But the embryo isn’t a person!”

To which I usually respond
If we changed the law so that a black person wasn’t legally a person, could I kill a black person and take their heart?
Or is there a greater Moral principle involved in personhood than a definition of law?
 
Nechasin,

I have heard that after the Second World War, the Allies found in Germany some medical results on things like how long a person could survive in cold water with various forms of insulated clothing (useful for downed pilots in northern seas). The data had been taken from experiments on death camp inmates. The Allies destroyed the data, saying that the source was so tainted that they could not in good conscience use it.
  • Liberian
 
Well, I think even some orthodox (seemingly orthodox at least) ethicists have said that after a certain point…the medicine becomes so far morally removed from the original act that you can use it in good conscience.

I believe that this was in the context of a Catholic university that was using stemcells from a line that was 40 years old, or something. They had not killed the original embryo, they were just using the cell-line that had propogated for 40 years. They concluded that it was morally removed enough at that point from the original murder to approve it:
John Haas, president of the National Catholic Bioethics Center in Boston, said the ethical issues surrounding the use of fetal cells, embryonic stem cells and cloning are the most controversial facing the church. “I don’t see the moral difficulty in using these cell lines, because you’re not contributing in any way to the abortions, which took place decades ago,” Haas said. “However, there is the risk of leading people to think that [some Catholic institutions do not] consider abortion to be a great evil and are indifferent to it and willing to work with tissue that result from that kind of action.”
In weighing how to handle the issue, Georgetown looked to the debate of a decade ago, when many Catholics became aware that cells from an aborted fetus were used to originate cultures used to manufacture chicken pox vaccine and measles-mumps-rubella vaccine. Since then, a measles-mumps-rubella vaccine has been developed without cells from an aborted fetus, but the chicken pox vaccine is still made with the same cell line.

Church officials concluded that the benefits of widespread immunization significantly outweighed the drawbacks of using aborted fetal cells, said FitzGerald.
The connection to the abortion was distant and remote enough to say that this in no way encouraged or facilitated further abortions,” he said. "The good was a proportionately strong enough argument to say, ‘Do this.’ "
Now, I don’t know who these “church officials” were who decided the measels vaccine was okay, and I don’t know how much I trust Georgetown’s ethicists (I know, Im cynical about the jesuits) but I can understand their logic. Killing a fetus to get stem cells is wrong. And using stem cells from a newly killed fetus makes it seem like you condone it, and is participation in evil. But at a certain point…if you didnt kill the original fetus and don’t encourage the killing of more, and just years later use the cells derived…it is morally removed.

So although we must oppose the research and new killing of embryos…and initially stay away from the treatment…at a certain point, if no new embryos are killed and the cell-lines simply are self-sufficient…I think it can be morally removed.

I mean…we can’t stay away from all results of evil. We have to stay away enough and early on to not condone it…but we cannot correct all evils in history, because all events ultimately have evil in their causative chain. God brings good out of it. The ends don’t justify the means…but once the sinful means have already been committed, we must try to bring as much good as we can out of the bad situation (as long as we distance ourselves enough from the evil means so as to not appear to be condoning them)

Once it becomes morally removed enough…we can’t always go back and correct all evils in history.

Otherwise, we’d be obligated to give all sorts of land back to the Native Americans (which initially we should have done when we broke the treaties in the first place…but by now so much time has passed…we are not really obligated to correct it).

I mean…everything we do is going to be ultimately traceable back to some evil. But only immediate results should be shunned. At a certain point, the past becomes clouded and the thing is morally removed.

Otherwise I could buy no product because I know that at some point there was evil involved.

Some products I wont buy because the evil is immediate: they used slave labor to make it or something.

But sometimes it is more removed: the company still exists because it used sweat-shop labor 50 years ago, and the profits thus made allowed it to open the new branch which makes the product that I want today. At this point, I’d say enough time has passed that I don’t have to have any scruples about condoning evil.

When stem cells become “morally distant” from the original murder…I don’t know. Do they ever? I can’t say…but ethicists and church officials thought 40 years for the Georgetown stem cells, and even merely 10 years for the measels vaccine, was enough time passed to approve their use.
 
In my point of view, stem cell therapy is tool that God has given us through science to use.

Furthermore, the majority of stem cells used are left over from fertility clinics. Couples who are trying to have a baby create several fertilized embryos and don’t implant them all. They may donate the ones that are left over to science. If they are not used for science then they are thrown away. I think God would rather have us use those cells to cure things like breast cancer, than to simply throw them away.
 
One is reminded of the German experiments on those who died in the death camps. They were dying anyway; so some use should be made of them.
 
One is reminded of the German experiments on those who died in the death camps. They were dying anyway; so some use should be made of them.
I think you were right when you said one is reminded of … Most people would see a stark difference between using an early stem cell versus torturing somebody.

You do realize that the stem cell used is less than 100 cells. It has not the slightest form of a human. No organs have developed. Not a brain, heart, etc.
 
You are aware of the research on adult stem cells as option? eg, the utility of adult stem cells found in skeletal muscle, dental pulp, prostate etc.?
 
I think you were right when you said one is reminded of … Most people would see a stark difference between using an early stem cell versus torturing somebody.

You do realize that the stem cell used is less than 100 cells. It has not the slightest form of a human. No organs have developed. Not a brain, heart, etc.
The Nazis maintained that the Jews were subhuman. It seems the standard defense for this sort of thing.
 
I have searched the forum and I did not find a thread that was what I was looking for.

I am against Embyronic Stem-Cell Research, and I’m a Type 1 Diabetic. So, how do I answer people when they ask would I use a cure that was developed from embryonic stem-cell research? This question has bothered me for some time, and I just don’t know the answer to it. I pray that a cure is found from other means so I don’t ever have to face this reality.

I apologize if this question has been asked. If so, please point me to the right thread.
I also have a condition that is being researched using embryonic stem-cells. My personal decision is that I would not allow this to be used on me. I won’t allow the murder of a child to be the means of my living longer.

I also pray that they find another way to cure me. But IMHO the use of something so evil to make my life better just is not acceptable.
 
I think you were right when you said one is reminded of … Most people would see a stark difference between using an early stem cell versus torturing somebody.

You do realize that the stem cell used is less than 100 cells. It has not the slightest form of a human. No organs have developed. Not a brain, heart, etc.
To many of us, I wish it were all, Catholics do not think of the embryo as just a blob but as a living separate being to be cherished not harvested like corn.
 
To many of us, I wish it were all, Catholics do not think of the embryo as just a blob but as a living separate being to be cherished not harvested like corn.
How can something with less than 100 cells, have no brain, no heart, no blood, no organs, etc. be a living being?

God gave us this technology so we can cure things that might not be possible without it.
 
When sperm meets egg, the DNA for a complete, mature human being is created. If it is wrong to kill an incompletely developed human (like a teenager), it is wrong to kill an incompletely developed human being like a blastocele. Even if it’s “just” a spare from a fertility clinic.

I, too, will refuse any treatment, no matter how distant from its origin, that was developed from a murdered baby.

Ruthie
 
How can something with less than 100 cells, have no brain, no heart, no blood, no organs, etc. be a living being?

God gave us this technology so we can cure things that might not be possible without it.
Not everything in this world is given by GOD.
 
I have searched the forum and I did not find a thread that was what I was looking for.

I am against Embyronic Stem-Cell Research, and I’m a Type 1 Diabetic. So, how do I answer people when they ask would I use a cure that was developed from embryonic stem-cell research? This question has bothered me for some time, and I just don’t know the answer to it. I pray that a cure is found from other means so I don’t ever have to face this reality.

I apologize if this question has been asked. If so, please point me to the right thread.
From what I understand, far more progress has been made with adult stem cell research. Basically that is where tissue is taken from the patient themselves and used to make stem cells to repair damage to that person’s body.

Embryonic stem cell use is just another way for the abortion industry to make more money from the dead children they butchered.
 
Not everything in this world is given by GOD.
God created the universe, the laws of nature, and science. Stem cell therapy is a miracle that God has given us, but religion is getting in the way of developing treatment. In the mean time, people’s lives are being cut short.
 
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