Morality vs. Animalism

[Edward_G]

I talk with a lot of atheists. I’m in two different large atheist forums, and I catch a lot of greif for being, pretty much, the only theist who will stand up and say atheism is ridiculous. I’m about to go in and launch off a platform related to morality.

In my opinion, morality is arbitrary. In other words, there is no reason why God is against some sins and not others. Those he really cares about usually have built in consequences. Like, He’s obviously against humans jumping off of cliffs or not throwing hand grenades once the pin is pulled.

But the abstract morality, most of what is found in the Bible, I find to be arbitrary–and yet, it’s what separates us from the other animal species. Without developing the discipline to follow a moral code, we slip back into animalism.f

With atheists, you find this a lot. Most are sexually immoral, some are so deviant it’s disgusting (like fetishes with feces in Raving Atheists). Others are only concerned with themselves to the point of narcissism, and of course a great many of them are gay and transgendered.

It seems when we abandon the moral codes laid out in the Bible, we never win. We slip back. Which is fine, I suppose, if you hate humanity to begin with–which is the point of atheism anyway.

Any advice on how I should do battle?:slapfight:

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

With atheists, you find this a lot. Most are sexually immoral, some are so deviant it’s disgusting (like fetishes with feces in Raving Atheists). Others are only concerned with themselves to the point of narcissism, and of course a great many of them are gay and transgendered.

It seems when we abandon the moral codes laid out in the Bible, we never win. We slip back. Which is fine, I suppose, if you hate humanity to begin with–which is the point of atheism anyway.

“The point of atheism” is “hating humanity”?

 

[Threep]

Have you ever studied the system of Natural Law by any chance?

 

[Edward_G]

“The point of atheism” is “hating humanity”?

Yes, the underlying motivation for atheism is a hatred of humanity. Atheism, at its core, seeks the devolution and ultimate extinction of mankind. Thus, it is satanic in nature.

Have you ever studied the system of Natural Law by any chance?

No. Enlighten me.

 

[Threep]

Well I’m not too well versed on it myself (so I’d gladly welcome any assistance), but the basic jist of it is that all people have this system of morality “written onto our hearts”. Basically, we all have within us the instinct to do the right thing, though our ability to follow these rules are clouded by the darkness of original sin.

Much like with a car or a blender, we come with a set of instructions, which in this case is the natural law. The natural law isn’t something specific to Catholicism, but actually was first realised upon by the ancient Greeks through the use of reason. St Thomas Aquinas developed their ideas even further, using divine revelation to perfect it.

I’d like to say more but I wouldn’t be able to do it justice (my memory is a bit rusty). This article from The Orthosphere is what I first read about it, so perhaps it’d help you too.

In any case, my point in originally asking was that you think that morality is arbitrary when really, our bodies and morality are all charged with meaning and purpose, and that is to bring us closer to God our Father. God just didn’t compile a random set of rules to just make life difficult for us, but to bring us closer to Him.

Do you believe that morality (and thus, truth) is objective or subjective?

I wish you luck in your internet endeavors and may God bless you.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Yes, the underlying motivation for atheism is a hatred of humanity. Atheism, at its core, seeks the devolution and ultimate extinction of mankind. Thus, it is satanic in nature.

I get that we don’t have evidence for the trinity, nor can we describe it. I get that we don’t have evidence for transubstantiation, nor can we describe it.

But at some point, someone needs to finally hold a Catholic accountable to the evidence. So here goes: based on what?

 

[jimmy]

The cc follows Thomas Aquinas in saying that there are four types of law: eternal, natural, human, and divine. The eternal law is found in the very nature of God. It is who he is. The natural law is the expression of the eternal law in man. Human law is the application of natural law to society and govt. divine law is the special law found in scripture, that God gave to a specific people at a specific time. So you have the mosaic law that is an example of this.

Natural law is Gods stamp upon human natural, and following it leads men to happiness, at least in a natural sense. Happiness is its object, and that is the reason for its commands. The natural law is made up of general principles which lead to an understanding of how a man should behave, whether on his own or in community. It starts with the principle ‘do good, avoid evil’. It then adds certain principles associated with man as a social animal. Man is designed to live in community, and the way we live is partially determined by that. We also have the characteristic of reproduction, and self preservation, so from this you might get principles concerning sexuality and reproduction.

This is a very basic intro to natural law and the source of morality. It is incomplete, so I hope others will expand on it and add to it. It’s been a while since I have read Aquinas, so I can’t remember the details.

 

[Edward_G]

In any case, my point in originally asking was that you think that morality is arbitrary when really, our bodies and morality are all charged with meaning and purpose, and that is to bring us closer to God our Father. God just didn’t compile a random set of rules to just make life difficult for us, but to bring us closer to Him.

I can see what you mean, and I may need to modify my position that morality is essentially arbitrary.

Do you believe that morality (and thus, truth) is objective or subjective?

I don’t mean to be evasive, but honestly, at this point in my thinking, I believe that good is whatever God says good is, and truth is whatever God says is true. He can change it any way He wants to for anyone He wants. I don’t believe He is bound by either, since He is the author of both.

I am definitely open to teaching and reasoning on this. :sad_yes:

I wish you luck in your internet endeavors and may God bless you.

Thank you

I get that we don’t have evidence for the trinity, nor can we describe it. I get that we don’t have evidence for transubstantiation, nor can we describe it.

But at some point, someone needs to finally hold a Catholic accountable to the evidence. So here goes: based on what?

Transubstantiation is easy and so is the Trinity, but that’s another topic. As for the fact that atheism has at its core a hatred for humanity, put simply, it takes people away from God and devalues their spiritual nature, and we only exist for spiritual reasons—God has enough animals. Atheism seeks to destroy that in man. It won’t succeed, but it seeks to do that. As for what you mean by “evidence,” I can’t help you with that. We’re talking philosophy, logic, and spirituality here, not science. :yawn:

The cc follows Thomas Aquinas in saying that there are four types of law: eternal, natural, human, and divine. The eternal law is found in the very nature of God. It is who he is. The natural law is the expression of the eternal law in man. Human law is the application of natural law to society and govt. divine law is the special law found in scripture, that God gave to a specific people at a specific time. So you have the mosaic law that is an example of this.

Natural law is Gods stamp upon human natural, and following it leads men to happiness, at least in a natural sense. Happiness is its object, and that is the reason for its commands. The natural law is made up of general principles which lead to an understanding of how a man should behave, whether on his own or in community. It starts with the principle ‘do good, avoid evil’. It then adds certain principles associated with man as a social animal. Man is designed to live in community, and the way we live is partially determined by that. We also have the characteristic of reproduction, and self preservation, so from this you might get principles concerning sexuality and reproduction.

This is a very basic intro to natural law and the source of morality. It is incomplete, so I hope others will expand on it and add to it. It’s been a while since I have read Aquinas, so I can’t remember the details.

Thank you, Jimmy. I found that to be very enlightening. In fact I think I pretty much agree with it, not that my agreement matters. But it makes sense to me. It makes sense that God would do things that way.

Again, thanks. You and Threep have helped me in my thinking. :newidea: