Morally obliged to report co-worker to authorities?

[Rosebud77]

Insurance here in Ireland costs an arm and a leg. There are consequently many defaulters just now .

Costs have rocketed the last years

I go without many things to keep my car on the road and have a 50% NCB
Literally.

But many cannot afford it any more, especially younger drivers. When it goes well into 4 figures.

You take a risk? You pay consequences.

Not for me to report anyone else. A mean thing to do.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

A fascinating thread. I think it illustrates why we have so many problems in the world today.

Would I report him? Absolutely, in a heart beat. Wouldn’t give it another thought.

 

[pnewton]

Yeah. Because if someone is breaking a perfectly reasonable law that’s totally ok.

I am sure you are aware that is not what I said. I do not know why you threw up this straw man, or even why you asked the question to begin with since your mind is set.

I have no idea if the law is reasonable. Are the insurance cost just in Ireland? Do all pay the same premium regardless of how much they drive? Is the market free, or are insurance companies some of the wealthiest because of these mandatory laws?

As to what the Church teaches on this, show where the Church has mandated reporting traffic violations and I will accept it would be a sin not to report. Even if one were to report this, it would be good that they know they are doing so as a matter of conscience, not resentment over paying insurance while a co-worker buys cool car accessories.

 

[pnewton]

He is putting others in financial danger every day by potentially causing an accident that someone else will have to pay for.

Is he? I asked earlier about his financial status, whether he would have the money to cover an accident and never received an answer. One does not need insurance for things one can pay for, except if the law mandated it. But if one does have financial resources, then lack of insurance does not mean someone else would pay for your mistake.

 

[mommy_k]

I think the only moral obligation is to let them know what the potential risk is.

If they have assets or property. .one incident can wipe them out, if another driver sues them. If they have no assests…the lawsuit can attach to thier earnings too, and they then work thier entire life for someone else, due to thier own stupidity.

Sometimes telling someone how thier actions affect others doesn’t work, so let them know how it can affect them.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Here you go AdamPeter:
chill.ie/blog/uninsured-drivers/

Based on this, the MIB will cover the cost of anyone who is hit by him and the cost is included in premiums already. I kinda think ratting on him would be kind of petty given that that is the case. I would call the gardai to prevent a drink driver getting behind the wheel in a heartbeat but in that case there is serious potential for accident.

In this case, it is stupid and it sucks because it drives up premiums, but premiums are already criminally high and that is partly because of people making stupid whiplash claims and getting 5 figure sums for a bit of neck pain.

 

[EasterJoy]

Here you go AdamPeter:
chill.ie/blog/uninsured-drivers/

Based on this, the MIB will cover the cost of anyone who is hit by him and the cost is included in premiums already. I kinda think ratting on him would be kind of petty given that that is the case. I would call the gardai to prevent a drink driver getting behind the wheel in a heartbeat but in that case there is serious potential for accident.

In this case, it is stupid and it sucks because it drives up premiums, but premiums are already criminally high and that is partly because of people making stupid whiplash claims and getting 5 figure sums for a bit of neck pain.

It is OK to make everyone else pay for him?

I think the right thing to do is to “admonish the sinner.” The OP pays all this stuff or else doesn’t drive. The OP can say “Frank, you do know that one of the reasons premiums are so high is that people like you don’t pay their share? It is like stealing from everyone else. It is a low thing to do, if you think about it.”

If he does not have his license because he never bothered to prove he was a safe driver or because a court deemed him unsafe, turn him in. That’s Golden Rule territory when it comes to the person he’s going to hit. You want to go to their funeral and tell their mother that you knew the driver that hit them probably wasn’t safe and yet you did nothing to keep him off the road? Live with that, if you want to.

Having said that, the state puts no duty to report on the rest of the population, correct? It is not a grave lapse to fail to do so. There is a lot of mind-your-own-business in morality, too, or none of us could have a moment’s peace. The grave lapse belongs to the one who drives with such a self-centered attitude. Whatever you decide to do, do it. After that, do your best to put the matter out of your mind, as confessors have to do.

 

[Rosebud77]

I am sure you are aware that is not what I said. I do not know why you threw up this straw man, or even why you asked the question to begin with since your mind is set.

I have no idea if the law is reasonable. Are the insurance cost just in Ireland? Do all pay the same premium regardless of how much they drive? Is the market free, or are insurance companies some of the wealthiest because of these mandatory laws?

As to what the Church teaches on this, show where the Church has mandated reporting traffic violations and I will accept it would be a sin not to report. Even if one were to report this, it would be good that they know they are doing so as a matter of conscience, not resentment over paying insurance while a co-worker buys cool car accessories.

 

[Rosebud77]

Here you go AdamPeter:
chill.ie/blog/uninsured-drivers/

Based on this, the MIB will cover the cost of anyone who is hit by him and the cost is included in premiums already. I kinda think ratting on him would be kind of petty given that that is the case. I would call the gardai to prevent a drink driver getting behind the wheel in a heartbeat but in that case there is serious potential for accident.

In this case, it is stupid and it sucks because it drives up premiums, but premiums are already criminally high and that is partly because of people making stupid whiplash claims and getting 5 figure sums for a bit of neck pain.

You found what I was thinking about. Thank you. When my mother was killed by a bad driver who was not insured, the MIB n the UK made some amends finanicially.

 

[mommy_k]

Here you go AdamPeter:
chill.ie/blog/uninsured-drivers/

Based on this, the MIB will cover the cost of anyone who is hit by him and the cost is included in premiums already. I kinda think ratting on him would be kind of petty given that that is the case. I would call the gardai to prevent a drink driver getting behind the wheel in a heartbeat but in that case there is serious potential for accident.

In this case, it is stupid and it sucks because it drives up premiums, but premiums are already criminally high and that is partly because of people making stupid whiplash claims and getting 5 figure sums for a bit of neck pain.

Wow…I learned something new today it is very different in the US.

What is the penalty for the uinsured driver if an accident occurs? There must be something…some accountabilty. I would tell the coworker that.

 

[Rosebud77]

OP, if you decide to dob your work mate in, maybe have the moral fibre to tell him to his face of your intention, and give him time to fix his paperwork, and maybe offer him a daily lift to and from work when he has been deprived of his transport and taken to court?

Offer to lend him money ? My insurance was in four figures by the way. ,

because really you are acting as judge and jury and prison officer? Prevention is better than all these things surely?

And how please will you do this? Ah wait. We have a Confidential Garda line.

Our under resourced and very hard working Irish Gardai Siochana … May God bless them mightily and keep them safe

 

[Rosebud77]

Wow…I learned something new today it is very different in the US.

What is the penalty for the uinsured driver if an accident occurs? There must be something…some accountabilty. I would tell the coworker that.

google Garda twitter and you will see the system at work. His car will be impounded there and then and court will follow. Even if he is caught with no accident that will follow.

 

[Peebo]

It sounds more like you’ve got your nose out of joint because you’re paying and he isn’t…so don’t pay yourself…or better still …mind your own business

 

[AdamP88]

It sounds more like you’ve got your nose out of joint because you’re paying and he isn’t…so don’t pay yourself…or better still …mind your own business

More like because I’m paying for him and people like him. I don’t see what’s so wrong with that.

It won’t materially affect me unless he happens to hit me or my vehicle someday so I’m not particularly pushed one way or the other.

It’s so easy to say “mind your own business” but the fact remains that he is breaking the law purely because he can’t be bothered to go through the proper procedure. And other Irish people on here (rosebud77) can go on all they like about the high premiums, but if you were hit by an uninsured driver I doubt you’d just say “oh I completely undrstand, premiums are so high these days.”

I think the tendency to use terms like rat and the like is interesting. While it might not be morally necessary to report him, it certainly wouldn’t be morally wrong to do so. The way I see it reporting a breach of a just law seems perfectly in compliance with catholic teaching.

 

[pnewton]

More like because I’m paying for him and people like him. I don’t see what’s so wrong with that.

I do understand that resentment. For us, we have what is called uninsured/underinsured insurance, which we literally pay in lieu of those who do not pay their own. This Spring I rebuilt a section of fence where such a one plowed through my mother’s property. Resentment is completely understandable.

I think the tendency to use terms like rat and the like is interesting.

The term, an similar terms, exist whether used or not because the attitude exists of those who report such things. Some even view it as collaboration of the worst sort with the State. It is surely your prerogative to take action. Just be aware of potential consequences in the work place. It is doubtful one who is irresponsible will take an enlightened view of this reporting.

While it might not be morally necessary to report him, it certainly wouldn’t be morally wrong to do so. The way I see it reporting a breach of a just law seems perfectly in compliance with catholic teaching.

Absolutely. It is a matter of what you deem prudent. Since this is weighing on you, I too will add my voice that you should discuss it with some spiritual adviser you personally know.

 

[DeniseNY]

DMV handles licensing, not the police.

Reporting no license & no insurance isn’t a police matter insofar as they don’t care unless you’re in an accident and then you get cited.

Source: 20+ years in insurance claims

The OP isn’t in the US

Source: his location.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Wow…I learned something new today it is very different in the US.

What is the penalty for the uinsured driver if an accident occurs? There must be something…some accountabilty. I would tell the coworker that.

Being caught without insurance can result in prison, even if you don’t crash.

Failure to have motor insurance or driving without insurance in Ireland is generally punishable by:
A fine of up to €5,000.
5 penalty points and.
At the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

And other Irish people on here (rosebud77) can go on all they like about the high premiums, but if you were hit by an uninsured driver I doubt you’d just say “oh I completely undrstand, premiums are so high these days.”

What I said was: it’s stupid and it sucks, but since MIB will cover it, at the end of the day I won’t be out of pocket if he hits my car. There is no real risk to Joe Upstanding-Citizen. It’s more of a risk to himself than anyone else. In my personal opinion, informing on someone should only be done when they pose a risk of some sort (physical, financial, etc) to themselves or others. “Ratting” on one of the thousands of uninsured drivers will not reduce your premium. What’s the point?

 

[pensmama87]

What I said was: it’s stupid and it sucks, but since MIB will cover it, at the end of the day I won’t be out of pocket if he hits my car. There is no real risk to Joe Upstanding-Citizen. It’s more of a risk to himself than anyone else. In my personal opinion, informing on someone should only be done when they pose a risk of some sort (physical, financial, etc) to themselves or others. “Ratting” on one of the thousands of uninsured drivers will not reduce your premium. What’s the point?

Maybe it’s different in Ireland, but the fact that the driver who struck my parents’ car was uninsured caused a LOT of additional annoyance and inconvenience for them. The process dragged on through court to get the money to pay for their medical care and to replace their car. As if that driver’s poor decision making that led directly to the accident wasn’t enough, his lack of forethought about insurance made it worse.

I’m not sure I buy pnewton’s argument that people without insurance are more careful to avoid being caught.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

In discussing the exorbitant price of motor insurance one day with a co-worker it came up in conversation that he doesn’t pay his motor tax or insurance and he drives around in the hope that he won’t get stopped by traffic cops. He only has to drive a few miles each day and he’s never had an accident thus far. Though occasionally he does drive further. I have been thinking about this conversation for a few weeks and his attitude bugs me the more I think about it. If he did have an accident he’d be in trouble, but the person or vehicle he hit would be liable to pay an even higher premium. It also turns out he doesn’t even have the proper license to drive his vehicle. I’m starting to wonder if I should report him before he has an accident and screws up his and someone else’s life.

No, you are not morally obliged to turn him in. Its really none of your business. With that said, you could turn him in but I would not. I am wondering if the police would even do anything. Who turns someone in for driving without insurance? Sounds like something someone would do out of spite. Like a ex wife or husband doing it just for revenge. I would not be surprise if the police gave a “So what?” attitude. And a bad accident could ruin someone else’s life with or without one of the drivers being insured. I personally have uninsured motorist insurance. This is not murder or a major felony, at least not in The USA. I would mind my own business. But, its up to you. There is absolutely nothing wrong if you do decide to turn him in either. This person sounds irresponsible anyways, I doubt making the police make him get insurance would change that and you are not his daddy so its not your responsibility to help this person be more responsible.