Morally Straight or Morally Gay?

[CopticChristian]

As an Eagle Scout, I recited this many times…

**Boy Scout Oath or Promise

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. **

Recently the BSA changed policy for membership and presently bans Adult leaders that are openly Gay. I anticipate that this will be the next hurdle that the LGBT agenda will tackle.

In a separate but related thread it is pointed out what Homosexuals are doing to the Body of Christ. The American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association is now run by Homosexually interested parties promoting normalcy of Homosexual behavior…The United Church of Christ is being touted as supportive of the California attempt to ban NARTH and if no one was watching the United Church of Christ is supporting the recent change for the BSA as if Christianity as a whole comes from the voice of this group…

In the world of Christian thought Homosexuals are taking over Churches as seen here…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=766675

Wrongly Dividing the Body of Christ

I see that Heresy precedes Homosexuality leading to Gay Bishops, Gay Clergy, Gay affirmative communities called Christian that Ordain, validate Same Sex marriage causing many to leave, schism, or to unite with others that do not agree. This leaves Gay/Homosexual faux-Christian communities of which there are several wrongly dividing the body of Christ.

We are asked to Subjugate Morality, Divine Law, and Natural Law to immorality to wrongly divide the Body of Christ…

Prior to the voting by the BSA this thread was started…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=789011

Research Pertinent to the Boy Scouts of America Policy Change Debate

The following are comments from postings as it regards this change…

“Sadly, the Boy Scouts Executive National Council’s decision disregards not only the nearly 19,000 Americans who signed a petition urging BSA to ‘uphold the values that have defined the organization for over 100 years,’ but also the millions of Americans who have

Of the more than 200,000 leaders, parents and youth members who responded, 61 percent supported the current policy of excluding gays, while 34 percent opposed it.

If the scouts do this, I will shut down scouting in my parish. I am certain I will have lots of company.

We as Catholics, simply cannot not allow our kids to be subjected to such an immoral, sinful, and hazardous group. Before you cry bigot, go educate yourself and read the John Jay report.

I wonder if they will have to strike “keep myself morally straight” from the Scouts.
The majority of Baptist churches locally would drop out of the Boy Scouts if the organization lifts its longtime ban on gay leaders and scouts, a local Baptist church leader predicted last week.

“We are stepping away from God’s word, and that’s the wrong direction,” said Steve Siglich, an Eagle Scout and director of missions for the Greater Dayton Association of Baptists.

The Jay Report was mentioned and here it is…

usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Causes-and-Context-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-in-the-United-States-1950-2010.pdf

The Causes and Context
of Sexual Abuse of Minors by
Catholic Priests in the
United States, 1950-2010

We admit that there was a problem with trusted priests, not all priests are bad, we admit that the problem is one of authority taking advantage of those that look for trust…

We now face the BSA pending changing policy with Adults that are openly gay, not priests, not dedicated to any particular belief and we are being asked to trust our children to these leaders…

Should we start the CatholicBSA as is noted by the Baptists to coordinate vigilence for our children?

 

[1AugustSon7]

As an Eagle Scout, I recited this many times…

Recently the BSA changed policy for membership and presently bans Adult leaders that are openly Gay. I anticipate that this will be the next hurdle that the LGBT agenda will tackle.

In a separate but related thread it is pointed out what Homosexuals are doing to the Body of Christ. The American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association is now run by Homosexually interested parties promoting normalcy of Homosexual behavior…The United Church of Christ is being touted as supportive of the California attempt to ban NARTH and if no one was watching the United Church of Christ is supporting the recent change for the BSA as if Christianity as a whole comes from the voice of this group…

In the world of Christian thought Homosexuals are taking over Churches as seen here…

Prior to the voting by the BSA this thread was started…

The following are comments from postings as it regards this change…

The Jay Report was mentioned and here it is…

We admit that there was a problem with trusted priests, not all priests are bad, we admit that the problem is one of authority taking advantage of those that look for trust…

We now face the BSA pending changing policy with Adults that are openly gay, not priests, not dedicated to any particular belief and we are being asked to trust our children to these leaders…

Should we start the CatholicBSA as is noted by the Baptists to coordinate vigilence for our children?

From someone who lives in a country that has accepted SSM the aggressiveness of homosexualism is astounding. You must do everything in your power and always pray to stop this pestilence. Homosexualism leads to persecution of all dissenters: if a Church does not submit and undergo a process of sensitivity training or a slow coaxing into getting the congregation to be more “sensitive” (implicaton: we are heartless prunes) and all that jazz, open warfare results: slander, lawsuits, loss of jobs and even possibly prison.

If you allow your country to be homosexualized within 5 years most of your country will have mandatory education programs that begin sensitivity training, brainwashing and sexualizing your children starting in grade 1. They will persecute your Churches. A week ago I had to go up to receive Communion from a Eucharistic Minister who was clearly gay in dress and demeanour: although, because I need such “sensitivity” training, I gave him the benefit out of the doubt as a young person/man/late teenager-early tweens who was simply a product of our modern times and culture. When I went up to receive (I am a 27yr old man) he looked at me, closed his eyes and as it were shuttered in passion as if I had aroused him. His eyelids, closed, trembled. It was as if I were sin for him. I did not appreciae it. At that point it was obvious that he was, of course, gay. The Church bulletin I took home had a special section dedicated to “What the Church is doing for our gay youth”. Not only is that shockingly insulting to “our youth” (as if they were ALL gay) it was morally neutral by context. By “gay” do we understand openly gay Catholic youth? Since when was *gay Catholic *not an oxymoron? People with homosexual inclinations or who struggle with SSA should not be taught to identify or reduce themelves to these desires or inclinations.

"What the Church is doing for our gay youth".

As if it were obligatory that we busy ourselves with the worries and needs of one set of peope struggling like everyone else with sin and not be worried about, oh, say, the people who are starving to death on the streets in front of the church (and there are plenty right there where the church is located downtown): yes, I am oh-so concerned about the needs of this curious and musingly new generation of our *oh-so soft *and tenderly sensitive sons: with their *all-so *delicate feelings. That’s homosexualization.

To top it off, as I was leaving Mass and the church that day, directly across the road, on the second story of a townhouse, a woman was unfurling from her balcony-porch a giant rainbow flag for all to see. It was as if they were saying: we have conquered.

Do not let this come to pass in your country. It gets much worse and what I have described is not the change in social life (get used to being invited to diner parties and as you wait for the meal to be ready you are entertained with pornography on the television as if it were nothing) that comes about but simply what happens to your schools and your churches.

 

[buffalo]

As an Eagle Scout, I recited this many times…

Recently the BSA changed policy for membership and presently bans Adult leaders that are openly Gay. I anticipate that this will be the next hurdle that the LGBT agenda will tackle.

In a separate but related thread it is pointed out what Homosexuals are doing to the Body of Christ. The American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association is now run by Homosexually interested parties promoting normalcy of Homosexual behavior…The United Church of Christ is being touted as supportive of the California attempt to ban NARTH and if no one was watching the United Church of Christ is supporting the recent change for the BSA as if Christianity as a whole comes from the voice of this group…

In the world of Christian thought Homosexuals are taking over Churches as seen here…

Prior to the voting by the BSA this thread was started…

The following are comments from postings as it regards this change…

The Jay Report was mentioned and here it is…

We admit that there was a problem with trusted priests, not all priests are bad, we admit that the problem is one of authority taking advantage of those that look for trust…

We now face the BSA pending changing policy with Adults that are openly gay, not priests, not dedicated to any particular belief and we are being asked to trust our children to these leaders…

Should we start the CatholicBSA as is noted by the Baptists to coordinate vigilence for our children?

Yes, that actually might be better.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association is now run by Homosexually interested parties promoting normalcy of Homosexual behavior…

I fully support gays being allowed in the Scouts, but I will never condone the normalcy of Homosexual behavior. I believe that homosexuality is a trick of Satan, with homosexual attraction being “innocently” acquired.

 

[CopticChristian]

I fully support gays being allowed in the Scouts, but I will never condone the normalcy of Homosexual behavior. I believe that homosexuality is a trick of Satan, with homosexual attraction being “innocently” acquired.

Your (name removed by moderator)ut is always appreciated Robert. It might be worth considering what is being said in another thread…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=786055

**Sexual Abuse in other faiths? **

Those in authority can and have abused their power. Welcoming openly gay men to be leaders in the BSA brings in a broader audience than those that ascribe to a Faith belief, with the exception of the United Church of Christ…

In 1973, The United Church Coalition for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Concerns was formed. 1 In 1998-NOV, Rev. Paul H. Sherry, President of the UCC, commented that the coalition “has been a prophetic presence in our church, clarifying concerns, challenging stereotypes, providing leaders for every setting of the church’s life, gently and persistently changing hearts and minds, providing a refuge for those who have suffered wounds of prejudice and exclusion in church and society…” 2

In 1975, their General Synod passed a resolution in support of full civil liberties and equal protection under the law to persons of all “affectional or sexual preferences.”

In 1977, the Church passed a resolution which “deplored the use of scripture to generate hatred, and the violation of civil rights of gay and bisexual persons and called upon individual members, local churches … to continue to work for the enactment of civil rights legislation at the federal, state, and local levels of government.”

Ordination of active homosexuals was formally accepted by the denomination in 1980. Its clergy are also free to bless same-sex unions. Local associations of UCC congregations have the authority to decide on their own ordination policies. Some associations, like Western North Carolina have gone on record as refusing to consider any homosexual candidate for the ministry, regardless of her or his qualifications.

Some congregations follow the homosexual-positive “Open and Affirming” program. In 1985, the General Synod formally urged local churches to welcome gay and lesbian members and advocate in their behalf against discrimination and persecution.

It is not the Church of Christ, founded by Christ and the Apostles, it does not speak for Christianity, and has been corraled by the LGBT in speaking in support of their agenda…

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I fully support gays being allowed in the Scouts, but I will never condone the normalcy of Homosexual behavior. I believe that homosexuality is a trick of Satan, with homosexual attraction being “innocently” acquired.

If it were caused by “a trick of Satan” why has the Church not said so? Indeed nothing the Church has said is remotely close to that; do you think the Church is erring on moral theology?

 

[CopticChristian]

If it were caused by “a trick of Satan” why has the Church not said so? Indeed nothing the Church has said is remotely close to that; do you think the Church is erring on moral theology?

Dakota,

With all due respect. I understand your query. The Catechism as you well know, says this…

Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.

Robert is Catholic.

Robert is a Psychologist.

Robert has rendered an opinion that does not dispute the Catechism and it within his knowledge and understanding as a Catholic Psychologist to opine as to what he believes to be the case.

To suggest that Satan is behind homosexuality does not contradict the Church teaching in the Catechism as an opinion. No one is saying that Robert is 100% fact, 100% true, however you and I would be unable to say without doubt…

it is not 100% false, can we?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota,

With all due respect. I understand your query. The Catechism as you well know, says this…

Robert is Catholic.

Robert is a Psychologist.

Robert has rendered an opinion that does not dispute the Catechism and it within his knowledge and understanding as a Catholic Psychologist to opine as to what he believes to be the case.

To suggest that Satan is behind homosexuality does not contradict the Church teaching in the Catechism as an opinion. No one is saying that Robert is 100% fact, 100% true, however you and I would be unable to say without doubt…

it is not 100% false, can we?

He should talk to some exorcists about his hypothesis as they could help him test it.

 

[CopticChristian]

He should talk to some exorcists about his hypothesis as they could help him test it.

Dakota,

Now this is thoughtful, insightful and respectful. This is no theory, concerning Satan and Robert may or may not chosse to speak to Exxorcists. I doubt that there will be much feedback as I am sure Priests doing excorcism do not share this information.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota,

Now this is thoughtful, insightful and respectful. This is no theory, concerning Satan and Robert may or may not chosse to speak to Exxorcists. I doubt that there will be much feedback as I am sure Priests doing excorcism do not share this information.

Of course it isn’t a theory, it is a hypothesis.

An exorcist could explain demonic possession and influence to Robert and how it differs from concupiscence. If Robert is interested in truth he will seek out an exorcist out to gain knowledge from experts on demons.

 

[CopticChristian]

Of course it isn’t a theory, it is a hypothesis.

An exorcist could explain demonic possession and influence to Robert and how it differs from concupiscence. If Robert is interested in truth he will seek out an exorcist out to gain knowledge from experts on demons.

Dakota, here is some truth, posted in another thread by another poster that is relevant…

Christian Science Monitor: Boy Scouts: Will anti-gay troops emerge?

The drive to allow gay boys came from deep within the organization itself, especially given that the Boy Scouts had the full legal right to say no. In 2000, the US Supreme Court upheld the Boy Scout policy, saying private organizations don’t need to accept members or leaders in violation of their own moral creed, specifically a line in its bylaws that says that gay people should be excluded because they are not “morally straight.”

If the bylaws do not change, then one would have to interpret to mean that active gay are not “morally straight”. That is, their own by-laws represent social advocacy within the scouting community against homosexual acts.

The policy change is not necessarily a reversal of the bylaws since we are talking about sexual orientation or preference alone.

I wonder how that would play out if members start to promote ideas about gay rights within the community … would be a violation of the “sexual orientation or preference alone”.

So the stand that homosexual acts are not morally straight would still be a timeless value.

 

[Baelor]

I wonder how that would play out if members start to promote ideas about gay rights within the community … would be a violation of the “sexual orientation or preference alone”.

That would never happen. The BSA has never been a hotbed for discussions of sexuality. The policy change does not alter that.

 

[CopticChristian]

That would never happen. The BSA has never been a hotbed for discussions of sexuality. The policy change does not alter that.

I beg to differ and you and the lurkers would do well to visit this thread…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=789036

Boy Scouts and Gays

Particularly post #14 & #15.

I anticipate disagreement and those that are viewing this thread should visit the above thread as mentioned and form their own opinion.

 

[Baelor]

I beg to differ and you and the lurkers would do well to visit this thread…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=789036

Boy Scouts and Gays

Particularly post #14 & #15.

I anticipate disagreement and those that are viewing this thread should visit the above thread as mentioned and form their own opinion.

Anyone can make a patch. I could make a patch with foul language on it or blasphemy or explicit images. The fact that a patch exists does not mean that it is in line with BSA regulations.

 

[CopticChristian]

Anyone can make a patch. I could make a patch with foul language on it or blasphemy or explicit images. The fact that a patch exists does not mean that it is in line with BSA regulations.

as usual, you miss the point, hopefully the Lurkers and others that see the point can and will see that…thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Baelor]

as usual, you miss the point, hopefully the Lurkers and others that see the point can and will see that…thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

What point is that?

 

[CopticChristian]

What point is that?

You missed it:thumbsup:

 

[Baelor]

You missed it:thumbsup:

I suppose it is easy to miss what was never there.

 

[Bill_Martin]

Since merely being gay is not a sin, what is so bad about allowing gay Scouts or leaders? It’s the action that is wrong, not the orientation. And for that matter, does the BSA exclude people who have premarital sex, or masturbate, or look at porn, or commit any other sin, sexual or otherwise?

I don’t see what the fuss is about. Simply allowing gays to participate is not the same as condoning actions that they may or may not be doing. Nobody would say that allowing straight Scouts is condoning any of the sexual sins that they may be committing either.

 

[CopticChristian]

Since merely being gay is not a sin, what is so bad about allowing gay Scouts or leaders? It’s the action that is wrong, not the orientation. And for that matter, does the BSA exclude people who have premarital sex, or masturbate, or look at porn, or commit any other sin, sexual or otherwise?

I don’t see what the fuss is about. Simply allowing gays to participate is not the same as condoning actions that they may or may not be doing. Nobody would say that allowing straight Scouts is condoning any of the sexual sins that they may be committing either.

Bill,

To start with there is no universal understanding of what it means to say

“I am gay”

Does this mean you have SSA?
Does this mean you have SSA and are thinking of acting on it?
Does this mean that you have SSA and have acted homosexual?
Does this mean that you have SSA, are thinking of acting on it, have acted on it and accept that you will forever act on it?

There is no consensus on what this means.