More Eucharist Questions

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It probably was translation issues clouding the clarity of each of the Bishops, I just trust that it will work out and be clear, especially with our new Pope.

ReformedBob, I was thinking the same thing and was going to start searching all your posts, to see if I was just crazy or what. Thanks for saving me the time in responding to that question. I look forward to your future posts.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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John-the-Seeker:
It has been foretold by messages aledged to be through the Blessed Virgin Mary that in order to promote One World Order and One World Government and One World Religion, that Satan has infiltrated the Church and soon a Pope would declare that Jesus is not present in the Eucharist and that the Mass is not a sacrifice and that priests can marry.
A friend told me, (I have not verified it), that the Bishops Synod was discussing, (if I have it right.), whether the altar used in the mass should be described as a sacrificial altar or the Lord’s banquet table.
Perhaps what you are inquiring about is an opening volley in this foretold schism to come.
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Since it is both an altar of sacrifice and the Lord’s banquet table, I fail to se any schism developing…
 
To John-the-Seeker:

I would highly discourage you from embracing that line of thinking. Its dangerous. First of all, not one line of the article I posted the link to referred to Pope Benedict. Secondly, none of the bishops actually stated that Christ is not present in the Eucharist, the dilemma is that there are questions regarding how best to make Christ’s presence in the Eucharist clearly understood by the faithful, and just exactly how He is present in the Eucharist. Thirdly, you told us that “it has been foretold” by “messages attributed to the Virgin Mary” that the events I’ve described or events like them would initiate the start of this nefarious one-world-everything scheme by Satan. You didn’t provide any hard sources whatsoever. Fourthly, the Synod of Bishops recently reaffirmed the value of priestly celibacy. It will probably be a long, long time (if ever) before priests of the Latin rite can marry again. Don’t forget that priests of certain Eastern rites can marry. Besides, celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine. If it changed, this would not necessarily constitute the coming of the Anti-Christ. Lastly, I know there are some on these forums (and apparently John, you’re one of them) who believe that when the Anti-Christ does come, he will come in the form of a Pope who begins making heretical declarations. For what its worth, I would like to make it clear that I do not believe this will ever happen. Christ told Peter that the gates of Hell will NEVER prevail against the Church. You must remember that.
 
Hi College Kid,

Christ told Peter that the gates of Hell will NEVER prevail against the Church. You must remember that.

I do and I believe it when Jesus said that he servant is not greater than the master. What the master suffered so will the servant ‘His Church’ on Earth.

There is an account of the Resurrection morning that describes the burial head wrappings, (those of the Head, Jesus), being discarded on the floor indicating Jesus would never die again. However the body burial wrappings were neatly folded and laid on the side of the tomb thus indicating to me that ‘His Servant’, His Church on Earth is not greater than He and will “SEEM” to suffer and die as He did, but will never actually die for He has promised that he Gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

Have Faith and Believe for I go BEFORE YOU ALWAYS. From Heaven, to Earth, to suffering and apparent death, to resurrection in Our Father’s Glory, I go BEFORE YOU ALWAYS. COME, FOLLOW ME, for I am the Way, The Truth and The Light, and I will lead you Home.
 
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JimG:
Some seem to think–incorrectly–that there is simply no physical Christ present in the Eucharist at all. Others believe–also incorrectly–that what we perceive as bread and wine somehow becomes flesh and blood at the molecular level.
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I think you’ve summarized the Catholic position excellently. But you have to recognize that in normal modern speech “physical” means “at the molecular level.” Thus, what the African bishop said was fully accurate.

Edwin
 
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Contarini:
I think you’ve summarized the Catholic position excellently. But you have to recognize that in normal modern speech “physical” means “at the molecular level.” Thus, what the African bishop said was fully accurate.
Edwin
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Yes. What we perceive as the “physical” in the Eucharistic species really represents the boundaries of what Aquinas would call the “accidents” or “appearances.” But nobody thinks philosophically anymore!
 
I didn’t read through the whole thread, but Matt25 did make one point which I think is both true and essential, and which contradicts the idea of transubstantiation as semantics:
Matthew 25:
Contariri - good points! I know everyone will disagree, but I STILL think this all comes down to semantics. Jesus has one physical body now and that is the Body of Christ - US. He is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven right now in his spiritual body
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Jesus does have but one body, one soul, one Person, one Divinity. The communion host which I receive today is that one Jesus, and it is the same Jesus–not a different Jesus–that you receive. Jesus is not multiplied. Rather, by receiving the ONE body of Christ–both physical and spiritual–the whole Christ–we communicants are drawn together into one body. That is why we call it comm-union. It is a uniting sacrament.

Because it is the same and only body of Christ no matter when and where received, that is why I am so often tempted to use the analogy of the black hole or the event horizon. The “elements” of bread and wine are the appearances which we can see which tell us the limits of that event horizon.

When we break the host in two or more pieces, we don’t divide Jesus, we (to use a Star-Trek analogy) beam him into into more locations, (without dividing Him.) And location–both in time and in space–is an accident, an appearance–not a substance.

So yes, Jesus has one resurrected body in heaven, and it is that same body which we receive in communion.
 
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CollegeKid:
OTM, no offense, but your manner here seems to be a little snide. I respect your opinion and your insight, but I don’t appreciate being talked down to when I’m only seeking honest answers.
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I noticed this too. Remember the old saying, “You catch more flies with honey…” (Not that college kid is a fly 😉 )
 
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JimG:
Yes. What we perceive as the “physical” in the Eucharistic species really represents the boundaries of what Aquinas would call the “accidents” or “appearances.” But nobody thinks philosophically anymore!
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This is the big problem. People today are brought up in a materialistic world view… which means they are missing out on half of life. Philosophy considers ALL reality, materialism considers only that which we can measure with manmade instruments and imperfect senses. 😦
 
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Contarini:
I think you’ve summarized the Catholic position excellently. But you have to recognize that in normal modern speech “physical” means “at the molecular level.” Thus, what the African bishop said was fully accurate.

Edwin
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Another thought: I would say that Jesus really is present in the Eucharist “at the molecular level”, as well as at the bodily and spiritual level–but NOT at the molecular level of the Eucharistic species. It is the very Eucharist species itself–the ‘physical appearances’ of the bread and wine, beneath which the actuality of Jesus is hidden.
 
I know many Catholic who not only do not believe in the Real Presence, they don’t believe in many of the Church’s teachings.
What I don’t understand is why they attend Mass. Many of these Catholics live together with their mate, out side of marriage.
The last Catholic wedding I attended the bride was six months pregnant.
 
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