More, more, more!

[EasterJoy]

I know it can be frustrating to be around people who constantly disappoint, but maybe you can try to think more positively about them. Is there anything you admire about your family, friends? Does someone make a great pumpkin pie? Do you have a friend that finished a degree or other goal lately? How about an award at school for a nephew? Maybe if you focus and compliment on what you respect about them you’ll get along a little better, and maybe they will appreciate that you notice and want to do more good.

Maybe I’m way off the mark and they are too far gone. I guess I am just shocked because I don’t know anyone THAT horrible that I can’t find any good in them, eve the ones who replaced Jesus with their elf on a shelf.

It may be that the friends have drifted into such totally different goals in life that there is no longer any common ground. In the plain meaning of the Epistles, the counsel of the Apostles is to spend time with those of like mind, those who seek to serve God. Live in peace with the rest of the world, but don’t try to be close friends with someone when there is no common ground, not even if they are family. Be good and patient with them, but don’t try to give them a place in your life that they are ill-suited to fill. It is good for no one.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

If you and the member of the family who raised the question had a “dry” party–meaning one where no one had more alcohol than would allow them to legally drive–and no one but your family and that family would show up, would this be such a bad thing?

If you and this family were to say, “You know, we don’t mind drinking, but we’ve had it with drunkenness,” and cut off anyone who showed up at your parties drunk or had too much to drink while there, you’d still have each other. I suspect you’d have a really nice time, too. Who knows, you might gradually get partisans to come over to your side, and the drunks could “enjoy” each other, too.

I think that might have been possible at one point, but that person has given in and now hosts a couple of the drunken bashes. One of the reasons it was easy to quit going to the family gatherings is because there’s no longer a voice of reason speaking up whenever things get bad. Everyone either participates in the bad behavior or condones it. One or two of them will speak up when things get really awful depending on who is being targeted, but saying anything negative about the drinking is a major taboo, even after the fact. I’ve witnessed some really outrageous behavior, or have been told about it immediately after, yet within days everyone decides that it either didn’t happen or wasn’t as bad as it really was and they go into the whole deny, distort, defend mode (deny it happened, distort the actual details and defend the people who did whatever is in question). It’s not a healthy environment in any sense, but my wife & I are characterized as the ones who have something wrong with us because we won’t take part in it.

How to raise a Paris Hilton…oh, only your friends don’t have limitless money! Oopsie! Do these people think they are impressing someone with their shameless self-indulgence? (And make no mistake, the mother you are describing wouldn’t be reveling in her daughter’s outrageous behavior if giving in to her every whim wasn’t a form of self-indulgence.)

This person actually has somewhat limitless money. She apparently married into money and makes a very comfortable living on her own. It didn’t bother me one bit when I realized my wife had changed my FB settings for her. If I didn’t think there was a chance of having contact with her in the future, I’d probably unfriend her, but as it is leaving her as a FB friend but not seeing her statuses doesn’t cause any harm.

HouseArrest:

I know it can be frustrating to be around people who constantly disappoint, but maybe you can try to think more positively about them. Is there anything you admire about your family, friends? Does someone make a great pumpkin pie? Do you have a friend that finished a degree or other goal lately? How about an award at school for a nephew? Maybe if you focus and compliment on what you respect about them you’ll get along a little better, and maybe they will appreciate that you notice and want to do more good.

Maybe I’m way off the mark and they are too far gone. I guess I am just shocked because I don’t know anyone THAT horrible that I can’t find any good in them, eve the ones who replaced Jesus with their elf on a shelf.

The drinking is actually one of the least offensive qualities of some of these folks. In the grand scheme of things, it’s a minor offense. To put it in a different perspective, there’s a guy I was friends with in college. We had a major falling out, nearly came to blows several times, and he spent several years trying to break up my relationship with my wife, ruin several of my friendships and get me fired from my job. He spent years spreading lies about me, even long after we had lost contact with one another, and he went so far as to call family members and tell them horrible things about me that I’d never actually done. I’d rather spend Christmas with him than some of these folks.

 

[maryjk]

This person actually has somewhat limitless money. She apparently married into money and makes a very comfortable living on her own. It didn’t bother me one bit when I realized my wife had changed my FB settings for her. If I didn’t think there was a chance of having contact with her in the future, I’d probably unfriend her, but as it is leaving her as a FB friend but not seeing her statuses doesn’t cause any harm.

I’m sorry, but I don’t see why you would continue to be friends with her, *at all. * What is the goal here?

Why would you even check to see what she had posted? It simply angers you. Do you enjoy being angry?

 

[HouseArrest]

I’m sorry, but I don’t see why you would continue to be friends with her, *at all. * What is the goal here?

Why would you even check to see what she had posted? It simply angers you. Do you enjoy being angry?

I agree here, are there other people in your area that you can make friends with?

I understand not being invited places. It happens to me. I have a group of girlfriends that used to get together when our kids were little and the group has grown and changed over the years. You have the typical Mommy who ended up getting a job, another whose kids are out of elementary school, etc. etc., but there are those who kind of outgrew the group, too. They wanted more exciting gatherings. They broke off and joined up with another group and avoid talking about what they are doing when we see them because they don’t want to invite certain people. I just let it go. What do I care? I don’t want to go anyway.

Now these people are not nearly as bad as what you are describing. I still like them and I can spend the afternoon with them. However I have moved on. Maybe it is time you move on too?

 

[Cat]

I think this thread demonstrates what misery is wrought when alcohol is abused. It doesn’t just affect those who abuse the alcohol, but everyone around them, and it causes emotional pain that washes over everything. It’s like looking at the world through alcohol-colored glasses–everything is a little distorted.

I can’t even imagine. I’m 56, and almost all the family parties I attend are totally alcohol-free. The only alcohol I’ve ever seen at our family parties is Nyquil and occasionally, a rum slush concoction that looks and smells disgusting. I haven’t seen it in several years, so maybe everyone realized that it really doesn’t bring any more joy to the celebration than is already there.

I’m sorry for your pain, Gordon Sims, and I suggest spending Christmas hanging out with Al Anon friends who know what you’re feeling.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I’m sorry, but I don’t see why you would continue to be friends with her, *at all. * What is the goal here?

Why would you even check to see what she had posted? It simply angers you. Do you enjoy being angry?

She’s an old friend from school and we worked on our last reunion together. If we’re put in that same spot again, it would be awkward to have to re-friend her. I checked her profile to see if she had possibly unfriended me, then figured it was likely my wife who blocked her and looked to see if I could figure out the offending post. There were actually quite a few to choose from so I’m not sure which one set my wife off, but if I’d seen the one about the gifts I probably would have blocked her on my own.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think that might have been possible at one point, but that person has given in and now hosts a couple of the drunken bashes. One of the reasons it was easy to quit going to the family gatherings is because there’s no longer a voice of reason speaking up whenever things get bad. Everyone either participates in the bad behavior or condones it. One or two of them will speak up when things get really awful depending on who is being targeted, but saying anything negative about the drinking is a major taboo, even after the fact. I’ve witnessed some really outrageous behavior, or have been told about it immediately after, yet within days everyone decides that it either didn’t happen or wasn’t as bad as it really was and they go into the whole deny, distort, defend mode (deny it happened, distort the actual details and defend the people who did whatever is in question). It’s not a healthy environment in any sense, but my wife & I are characterized as the ones who have something wrong with us because we won’t take part in it.

The drinking is actually one of the least offensive qualities of some of these folks. In the grand scheme of things, it’s a minor offense. To put it in a different perspective, there’s a guy I was friends with in college. We had a major falling out, nearly came to blows several times, and he spent several years trying to break up my relationship with my wife, ruin several of my friendships and get me fired from my job. He spent years spreading lies about me, even long after we had lost contact with one another, and he went so far as to call family members and tell them horrible things about me that I’d never actually done. I’d rather spend Christmas with him than some of these folks.

Their willingness to abuse tee-totallers is yet another piece of evidence that they’re serious alcohol abusers, if not alcoholics, or have chosen to be complicit (and co-dependent, since they’re letting the lies go unchallenged and even supplying alcohol for even more of these abuses, just to “keep the peace”). It is also not surprising that their drunkenness is not their only social handicap. Many of my high school acquaintances seemed to use alcohol to self-medicate against social ineptitude. They were more socially inept when they were drunk, but it didn’t feel that way to them. They actually enjoyed the luxury of either forgetting or else being able to pretend to forget the way they acted. (Some of them indulged in shocking behaviors before they were intoxicated, but found it convenient to pretend that they were already drunk.) When people use that veil of lies as a cloak for their inability to enjoy others without getting drunk first, of course they don’t want any sober people as witnesses to their ridiculous self-deception. Addictions make liars, and liars are not the material from which friends can be made. Addicts don’t want to look t the truth. Addicts want accomplishes who will help them pretend that they can hide from it.

It is a good idea to refrain from socializing with people while they are drunk. If they don’t like it, then that is their problem. As for the choice of spending Christmas with drunks or with a character assassin, I’d say going it alone without either is by far the better way.

This person actually has somewhat limitless money. She apparently married into money and makes a very comfortable living on her own. It didn’t bother me one bit when I realized my wife had changed my FB settings for her. If I didn’t think there was a chance of having contact with her in the future, I’d probably unfriend her, but as it is leaving her as a FB friend but not seeing her statuses doesn’t cause any harm.

I have no idea why you’d feel the least need to keep in touch with her whether you ever think you’ll run into her again or not, but it would be a very good idea to get “too busy” to check in on her shameless posts. No one admires what the Hiltons have done to their daughter’s character, let alone what their daughter’s crass materialism has done to the characters of millions of other young women. If this mother wants to imitate them, at least don’t encourage her by noticing it. If she doesn’t ruin her daughter’s soul with her profound foolishness, it will be a miracle. What could be sadder than that?

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I think this thread demonstrates what misery is wrought when alcohol is abused. It doesn’t just affect those who abuse the alcohol, but everyone around them, and it causes emotional pain that washes over everything. It’s like looking at the world through alcohol-colored glasses–everything is a little distorted.

I can’t even imagine. I’m 56, and almost all the family parties I attend are totally alcohol-free. The only alcohol I’ve ever seen at our family parties is Nyquil and occasionally, a rum slush concoction that looks and smells disgusting. I haven’t seen it in several years, so maybe everyone realized that it really doesn’t bring any more joy to the celebration than is already there.

I’m sorry for your pain, Gordon Sims, and I suggest spending Christmas hanging out with Al Anon friends who know what you’re feeling.

We have several admitted alcoholics in the family, including an uncle who died from it, so I don’t understand why the habitual binge drinking isn’t seen as an issue. Even suggesting it’s a problem or hinting that people should cut back, even if it’s just when kids are around, gets you put on the black list. I can’t think of a single extended family gathering from the last 5-6 years where alcohol wasn’t present, and very few where the amount drank wasn’t at least somewhat excessive. I have one cousin whose pictures I had blocked on Facebook for the longest time. I missed seeing her kids, though, and finally unblocked them. After a recent family party I had to block them again because the alcohol abuse in the pictures was so extreme that there’s no way I was going to let my kids see them and think that I thought it was in any way acceptable.I could write page after page about how alcohol has negatively impacted these people, yet the entire family still accepts and condones it. When I was still going to the parties, I would either be mocked and ridiculed for not drinking, or badmouthed and insulted for my condemning words and holier-than-thou attitude (note that I never actually said anything or had an attitude about it; just the fact that I wasn’t drinking was seen as an offense). Now we’re in the wrong because we don’t want our kids to see family members slurring and stumbling about, then getting into tear-filled shouting matches because the alcohol causes these already-nasty people to lose all inhibitions and openly say the things they usually reserve for behind everyone else’s backs. I just can’t comprehend how we’re the only ones who won’t accept this.

When my immediate family gets together, alcohol isn’t a must. We’re able to have dinner and get through a family birthday or holiday without soaking it in booze. However, to this day my parents still keep at least a few beers in the fridge because they know that if certain extended family members show up, they’re going to need it. The whole family also knows which people we need to steal keys from at the beginning of the night. Unfortunately, everyone also knows that keeping them from driving will most likely result in them throwing up in or around the house. Again, I have no idea why my wife and I are the only ones who won’t go along with that behavior.

Just to be clear, I’m not anti-alcohol. If there’s ever a time when I want a drink and it won’t impact my wife, my kids, my ability to get home or my ability to function the next day, I’ll go ahead and have one. (However, my tolerance is so low now that those opportunities are rarer than hens’ teeth.) What I’m opposed to is this constant need to put Animal House to shame, especially when children are involved. If you’re at a family party with kids, do you really need to line up the shots and play college drinking games? At a party with children, does making plans for the vomiting crowd really have to be a prerequisite? Even my hardest partying, heaviest drinking friends agree that there’s something wrong with that picture.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I have no idea why you’d feel the least need to keep in touch with her whether you ever think you’ll run into her again or not, but it would be a very good idea to get “too busy” to check in on her shameless posts. No one admires what the Hiltons have done to their daughter’s character, let alone what their daughter’s crass materialism has done to the characters of millions of other young women. If this mother wants to imitate them, at least don’t encourage her by noticing it. If she doesn’t ruin her daughter’s soul with her profound foolishness, it will be a miracle. What could be sadder than that?

The bulk of the work & communication we did last time was over Facebook so it doesn’t make sense to alienate her if we’re going to have to work together again at some point. The only reason I checked her timeline was to make sure she hadn’t unfriended me, and then to figure out why my wife blocked her. She’s done that before and I always like to know why. Now that I know she’s blocked and not unfriended, I have no need to see anything she posts.

 

[EasterJoy]

The bulk of the work & communication we did last time was over Facebook so it doesn’t make sense to alienate her if we’re going to have to work together again at some point…Now that I know she’s blocked and not unfriended, I have no need to see anything she posts.

That’s good to hear, although working with her does not sound like a great time, either. Your story only confirms my gratitude that I do not happen to have a Facebook acct, as more and more the whole thing seems to be the work of the devil, an engine of social upset more often than an easy means of happy connection. There are a lot of people who like each other much better when they know a lot less about each other!!

I hear that the younger generation is in the process of fleeing Facebook, so its days may be numbered. I can only hope.

 

[EasterJoy]

We have several admitted alcoholics in the family, including an uncle who died from it, so I don’t understand why the habitual binge drinking isn’t seen as an issue. Even suggesting it’s a problem or hinting that people should cut back, even if it’s just when kids are around, gets you put on the black list. I can’t think of a single extended family gathering from the last 5-6 years where alcohol wasn’t present, and very few where the amount drank wasn’t at least somewhat excessive. I have one cousin whose pictures I had blocked on Facebook for the longest time. I missed seeing her kids, though, and finally unblocked them. After a recent family party I had to block them again because the alcohol abuse in the pictures was so extreme that there’s no way I was going to let my kids see them and think that I thought it was in any way acceptable.I could write page after page about how alcohol has negatively impacted these people, yet the entire family still accepts and condones it. When I was still going to the parties, I would either be mocked and ridiculed for not drinking, or badmouthed and insulted for my condemning words and holier-than-thou attitude (note that I never actually said anything or had an attitude about it; just the fact that I wasn’t drinking was seen as an offense). Now we’re in the wrong because we don’t want our kids to see family members slurring and stumbling about, then getting into tear-filled shouting matches because the alcohol causes these already-nasty people to lose all inhibitions and openly say the things they usually reserve for behind everyone else’s backs. I just can’t comprehend how we’re the only ones who won’t accept this.

When my immediate family gets together, alcohol isn’t a must. We’re able to have dinner and get through a family birthday or holiday without soaking it in booze. However, to this day my parents still keep at least a few beers in the fridge because they know that if certain extended family members show up, they’re going to need it. The whole family also knows which people we need to steal keys from at the beginning of the night. Unfortunately, everyone also knows that keeping them from driving will most likely result in them throwing up in or around the house. Again, I have no idea why my wife and I are the only ones who won’t go along with that behavior.

Just to be clear, I’m not anti-alcohol. If there’s ever a time when I want a drink and it won’t impact my wife, my kids, my ability to get home or my ability to function the next day, I’ll go ahead and have one. (However, my tolerance is so low now that those opportunities are rarer than hens’ teeth.) What I’m opposed to is this constant need to put Animal House to shame, especially when children are involved. If you’re at a family party with kids, do you really need to line up the shots and play college drinking games? At a party with children, does making plans for the vomiting crowd really have to be a prerequisite? Even my hardest partying, heaviest drinking friends agree that there’s something wrong with that picture.

That’s too bad. Yes, you are describing a toxic situation. Even the most pro-alcohol people I know don’t ridicule the non-drinkers! To the contrary, the tee-totallers are valued as designated drivers, so that no one who wants to have perhaps a bit too much has to sit it out in order to avoid a DUII! Nobody expects the host to be anything but totally angry at a drinker who makes a mess, either.

Protecting drunkenness as a social “tradition” is hardly unknown among people in denial about their drinking, though. The whole family can be invested in pretending it is tolerable. When that happens, the resulting “social logic” can get truly bizarre. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise. One of the first things an alcoholic has to give up is allegiance to the truth, and renouncing the right to speak the truth seems to be one of the main things they demand of everyone around them, too. If they don’t do that, the game is pretty much up, because their “choices” will very soon be seen as the out-of-control compulsions they actually are.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

That’s too bad. Yes, you are describing a toxic situation. Even the most pro-alcohol people I know don’t ridicule the non-drinkers! To the contrary, the tee-totallers are valued as designated drivers, so that no one who wants to have perhaps a bit too much has to sit it out in order to avoid a DUII! Nobody expects the host to be anything but totally angry at a drinker who makes a mess, either.

Protecting drunkenness as a social “tradition” is hardly unknown among people in denial about their drinking, though. The whole family can be invested in pretending it is tolerable. When that happens, the resulting “social logic” can get truly bizarre. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise. One of the first things an alcoholic has to give up is allegiance to the truth, and renouncing the right to speak the truth seems to be one of the main things they demand of everyone around them, too. If they don’t do that, the game is pretty much up, because their “choices” will very soon be seen as the out-of-control compulsions they actually are.

Not long before I quit drinking altogether, I figured people would appreciate me being able to be the DD everyplace we went. One of the last times I drank anything was because the friends I was with wouldn’t hear of me not drinking. They insisted that we plan on a cab and that I drink as much as I could handle. I argued that it was only going to be a single beer, so it made a lot more sense for me to just drive instead. I also made it clear that I wouldn’t be taking a turn buying people rounds since I wasn’t going to be drinking. They still refused to listen and ended up buying me several expensive beers at the first bar we went to. I took a few sips from each, drank less than a single beer in total and still ended up feeling awful. They spent a good part of the rest of the night chewing me out for doing exactly what I warned them I was going to do. I’m not sure what they expected.

My wife and I were just talking about the binge drinking and apparent alcoholism and the effect its going to have one these people’s kids. Interestingly enough, several of them blame their drinking (which they insist isn’t a problem, although if it isn’t a problem, why the need to place blame for it?) on their parents, and go so far as to call them bad and even absentee parents (I didn’t have a dad, I had a drunk who ate dinner with us then drank himself to sleep). They have kids now and drink more than their parents ever did. I don’t know what they expect the outcome to be. It reminds me of my heavy-smoking friend who was shocked when he found his son smoking and wanted to know who taught him to do it.

 

[EasterJoy]

Not long before I quit drinking altogether, I figured people would appreciate me being able to be the DD everyplace we went. One of the last times I drank anything was because the friends I was with wouldn’t hear of me not drinking. They insisted that we plan on a cab and that I drink as much as I could handle. I argued that it was only going to be a single beer, so it made a lot more sense for me to just drive instead. I also made it clear that I wouldn’t be taking a turn buying people rounds since I wasn’t going to be drinking. They still refused to listen and ended up buying me several expensive beers at the first bar we went to. I took a few sips from each, drank less than a single beer in total and still ended up feeling awful. They spent a good part of the rest of the night chewing me out for doing exactly what I warned them I was going to do. I’m not sure what they expected.

My wife and I were just talking about the binge drinking and apparent alcoholism and the effect its going to have one these people’s kids. Interestingly enough, several of them blame their drinking (which they insist isn’t a problem, although if it isn’t a problem, why the need to place blame for it?) on their parents, and go so far as to call them bad and even absentee parents (I didn’t have a dad, I had a drunk who ate dinner with us then drank himself to sleep). They have kids now and drink more than their parents ever did. I don’t know what they expect the outcome to be. It reminds me of my heavy-smoking friend who was shocked when he found his son smoking and wanted to know who taught him to do it.

Addictions make liars, because it is a tremendous act of courage for an addict to admit the truth. People with addictions tend to be people who self-medicating problems they can’t face and sometimes even problems they can’t name. Contented people with no inner demons rarely need that “click” of a mind-altering substance. They don’t need to get away without ever having to admit they need to. That all stacks up to a lot of thinking that doesn’t add up.