More people in Hell or Purgatory?

[lgood903]

I have only within the past year been “awake” in my faith and striving to be better in my love of God and neighbor. It has been amazing and I will never go back to how I was before. I am having trouble reconciling the belief that the majority of people will end up in hell. Its easier for me to believe the people I know who have goodness in them but are not “holy” will end up in purgatory. Is there something erroneous about this belief? I know it is God’s judgement and only he knows, but its so hard, knowing my own conversion, to feel He, in his love, wouldn’t be merciful to those who died without a conversion. Can we be converted after death in purgatory?

Its hard to understand how it could be just for me to live past my conversion and be given this opportunity to live how God calls us to live, but others I know have died before being converted.

Would appreciate a referall to a specific writing of Aquinus discussing this, or another theologian. Thank you for your help.

 

[angel12]

I am having trouble reconciling the belief that the majority of people will end up in hell.

Some people choose to believe that, but that’s their opinion, you are not required to agree.

 

[Nita]

Here is a very good article by Avery Cardinal Douglas (now deceased) titled “The Population of Hell”. He presents the views of various recognized Catholic theologians starting from Origen (185 - 232 AD) thru recent ones.
This is the paragraph about Aquinas’ view:

The great Scholastics of the Middle Ages are not more sanguine. Thomas Aquinas, who may stand as the leading representative, teaches clearly in the Summa Theologiae that God reprobates some persons. A little later he declares that only God knows the number of the elect. But Thomas gives reasons for thinking that their number is relatively small. Since our human nature is fallen, and since eternal blessedness is a gift far beyond the powers and merits of every created nature, it is to be expected that most human beings fall short of achieving that goal.

Here is a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church section on Hell. Please note especially the last paragraph, #1037, which states (about who will go to hell) “for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end.”
(Bolding and underlining added by me.)

 

[Slimdigger]

Look here and you discern with the Spirit.

In 1994 a survey was processed through out America finding that 64% of Catholics in the USA believe the Eucharist to be only a mere symbol and not Our Lord Jesus Christ full presence Body Blood Soul and Divinity.

To receive the most Holy Sacrament of the Alter and not know who you are receiving is a very dangerous graven Sin.

 

[Nita]

I haven’t been able to locate where Aquinas discusses the number of people in hell. But, here’s a link (loosely connected) to the Summa Theologica that you might find interesting tho.
Part 1, Question 19, Article 6

For those not familiar with the format of the Summa, each article begins with several “Objections”. These are the false proposals. Aquinas begins his refutation of them, starting with the words “On the contrary, …”.
(Almost need to know the philosophical meaning of some words (eg. form, act, potency…) to understand the Summa.)

 

[Slimdigger]

Scholastic Philosophy is impressive. St Aquinas did more than Christinize Aristotle. Substance is a strong statement to think of our Lords words about himself. “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and Drink his blood you have no life in you”

The Father is all merciful, thank the Father for his Love. Unless a person commits sin with hate for God in his heart I don’t think it could be mortal.

 

[Magnanimity]

Here is a brief rundown of the history. Saint Augustine, who looms large for the entire western Catholic Church for 1000 years after his death, concluded from a Latin translation of Romans chapter 5 verse 12 that all humans inherit the guilt of Adam and Eve. From this, he concluded that the entire human race is a mass of the damned (massa damnata). And he further believe that God, in his inscrutable mystery, has elected a few for salvation.

So in Saint Augustine we probably get the first glimpse of a prominent Christian theologian who taught that most are headed for damnation. You do not find this view at all among any of the patristic fathers. It really began with Saint Augustine and his theory That the race is deserving of damnation and therefore will only be saved by a radical act of God.

Saint Thomas Aquinas, like most medieval theologians in the western church, generally follow the opinion of Saint Augustine on this issue. The church in the east generally did not. And as I said, the early church fathers certainly did not teach this. And the contemporary church, the church of the last 100 years, both east and west have had more individuals who were prominent theologians who disbelieved this opinion.

On the issue of hell, the church in the west remained firmly in the grip of Saint Augustine for many hundreds of years. And it is only within (say) the last 100 years that the Catholic Church in the west has started to wake up from these “dogmatic slumbers.” Many names and references could be supplied if you need them.

 

[Slimdigger]

Maybe Saint Augustine was referring to all the peoples souls swallowed by their vices.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

Nobody but God knows when the final judgement will be. We cannot make “guesses” as to how many in hell or not. For all we know there are zero people in hell besides the devil and demons. We cannot know the infinite mercies Jesus presents us at our death.

To make any statistical calculation is pointless and against our faith. St. Aquinas says we should never assume how many people are in hell because then we are in effect assuming damnation of others and this is a sin

 

[Dan_Defender]

We do not know how many people go to Purgatory but we can pray for them to lessen their suffering. My personal opinion is they do not have free will as they had on earth and finally knowing God is within reach, they suffer not being able to reach union with their Creator.

 

[po18guy]

I think the question is purely academic. The Judge is the Lord God of Israel. In this life we agree with fairly little of His wil. However, we will have perfect knowledge of Him in the afterlife. Thus, those who have rejected Him (choosing hell) will be subject to a very pleasing thing: God’s perfect Justice. We hope for mercy, but justice will certainly prevail for those who die obstinately opposed to God.

We hope and pray for mercy, and His mercy in inexhaustible, but He always retains the power to save or to condemn - which is within the purview of a Judge, particularly a Divine Judge. “Most people” do not stand at the particular judgment. You do, and I do, and each of them individually do. We can speculate until the parousia, but our imperfect, earthly opinion matters not one bit.

I prefer to be concerned about my condition on that day, and the condition of believers around me. As the greatest dogmatic theologian of the 20th century (Fr. John Hardon, S.J.) said, “If no one is in hell by this date,what must one do to get there?”

Our Lord was eminently clear that the path to salvation is narrow and few find it. I see no cause for speculation here, except that we may apply the theological virtue of hope to all souls at their Judgment. And to clarify once again: purgatory is a temporary state of those in the post-particular judgment condition. They know that they are bound for heaven.

 

[Dan_Defender]

However, we will have perfect knowledge of Him in the afterlife.

I agree. And this reminds me of an atheist who once told me his plan B is to argue with God. His idea of the particular judgement being that it is a court where you can argue your case. I told him what you just said about perfect knowledge and also perfect memory so that one can see how God manifested to us in a thousand different ways but was ignored so it won’t be possible to argue with Divine Justice.