More Questions for Protestants

[adstrinity]

What do the individual Protestants on here think of the Apparitions of Mary?

If it wasn’t for the Bible, do you think you would have a belief in Jesus’s Mission & Works?

Two questions unrelated, but, rather than clutter up the forum…

 

[Steadfast]

What do the individual Protestants on here think of the Apparitions of Mary?

I tend to think of them in more or less the same kind of way I think of the “incorruptibles”, it just seems so unnecessary.

If it wasn’t for the Bible, do you think you would have a belief in Jesus’s Mission & Works?

Well, what was Jesus’ mission?

To answer what I think you’re asking, without the Bible, we would know nothing about God other than that He exists, creates and sustains everything and that everything gets sick and dies and we would know nothing about Jesus because we would have no testimony beyond that of the church; i.e. a testimony maintained and handed down by fallible human beings.

 

[adstrinity]

I tend to think of them in more or less the same kind of way I think of the “incorruptibles”, it just seems so unnecessary.

Well, what was Jesus’ mission?

To answer what I think you’re asking, without the Bible, we would know nothing about God other than that He exists, creates and sustains everything and that everything gets sick and dies and we would know nothing about Jesus because we would have no testimony beyond that of the church; i.e. a testimony maintained and handed down by fallible human beings.

1. Fair enough.
2. Dying for our sins and all.
3. You don’t think that you, personally would have recourse to believe with just being told all of this?

 

[Walt_R]

apparitions of Mary have no effect on my faith or salvation.

Jesus mission was the fulfillment of the bible. You can’t have one without the other. The Word made Flesh.

 

[Steadfast]

1. Fair enough.
2. Dying for our sins and all.
3. You don’t think that you, personally would have recourse to believe with just being told all of this?

I am told a great many things every day. I do not believe all of them.

 

[adstrinity]

Jesus mission was the fulfillment of the bible. You can’t have one without the other. The Word made Flesh.

There would be no Jesus without the Bible? This is your position?

 

[jmcrae]

apparitions of Mary have no effect on my faith or salvation.

Jesus mission was the fulfillment of the bible. You can’t have one without the other. The Word made Flesh.

The Word is Jesus. It is Jesus who spoke the Universe into existence- that’s why He is called “the Word”.

It is Jesus who became flesh and dwelled amongst us.

The Bible itself is not “the Word” - it is just a record of the fact that Jesus did this.

 

[Crusador]

When the events of the first century were still fresh, the oral traditions were more acurate, (and yet false doctrine was already on the rise) - and by the power of the Holy Spirit men believed the gospel preached unto them.

If it was not for the inscripturation of the gospel, however, I believe that by the 21st century we would have a contaminated and even completely heretical gospel message, and so as to whether I would be persuaded by it or not - is not the point.

For even if I did believe this “gospel” I would still perish, because by now it would be plagued with man-made additions and human subtractions, religious distortions and the like- being nothing more than a false gospel, presenting a false Christ.

Therefore God knew what he was doing when he wrote the Scriptures of the New Testament - He was preserving the gospel.

 

[Crusador]

The Word is Jesus. It is Jesus who spoke the Universe into existence- that’s why He is called “the Word”.

It is Jesus who became flesh and dwelled amongst us.

The Bible itself is not “the Word” - it is just a record of the fact that Jesus did this.

Are you saying that when the Bible speaks of the “word of God” it is always speaking of Jesus- and not the Scriptures?

This is false - what about these passages:

“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” (Mt 7:13)- In this passage Jesus is speaking of the Holy Scriptures, and this is clear for the simple fact that a few verses earlier he called it the “commandment of God.” Not only this, but then he defines this word of God as the teachings of Moses, and lists the sixth commandment of the decalogue!

“And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.” (Luke 4:4)- again Jesus is speaking of the Holy Scriptures, otherwise He would not have said, “every” word of God.

“Every word of God is pure” (Prov. 30:5)- If this is speaking of Jesus, then how many Jesuses are there? :ehh:

If “every” Jesus is pure, then it doesn’t matter which one you know, right? (chuckle)

In the Parable of the sower, Jesus identified the seed as the word of God, but he identified HIMSELF as the sower! Here, we must understand that the testimony of Jesus itself is truly the word of God- (1 Thes 2:13). And since this testimony has been recorded for us in scripture, then logically- (rationally), the Holy Scriptures are the word of God!! Come one man, use your brain.

Also- How can one “fulfill Jesus?”

Paul says to the Clossians, “Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God.” (Col 1:25)- Here what is meant is to fulfill that word which was commanded by God. Not to fulfill that word which is Jesus. How can you fulfill Jesus?

I could sit here all day and add to the pile - but I think you should simply retract your statement, and we can all move on. Thx

 

[GeorgiaPeach]

*John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. *

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.

Luke 8:11-15 "This is the meaning of the parable. The seed is the word of God. Those on the path are the ones who have heard, but the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts that they may not believe and be saved. Those on rocky ground are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy, but they have no root; they believe only for a time and fall away in time of trial. As for the seed that fell among thorns, they are the ones who have heard, but as they go along, they are choked by the anxieties and riches and pleasures of life, and they fail to produce mature fruit. But as for the seed that fell on rich soil, they are the ones who, when they have heard the word, embrace it with a generous and good heart, and bear fruit through perseverance.

 

[jmcrae]

Are you saying that when the Bible speaks of the “word of God” it is always speaking of Jesus- and not the Scriptures?

Don’t make a straw man; that’s not what I said. You are right, the phrase “Word of God” can refer to a variety of things, and sometimes, it even refers to Scripture. But certainly not all, or even most of the time.

When it’s referring to God’s creative powers, yes, that’s Jesus it’s talking about. It was Jesus (not the Bible) who came forth out of the Father’s mouth when He said “let there be light” - Jesus was the Word that, by being spoken forth from the Father, birthed the light into being. The Bible didn’t do that - it didn’t even exist yet.

“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” (Mt 7:13)- In this passage Jesus is speaking of the Holy Scriptures, and this is clear for the simple fact that a few verses earlier he called it the “commandment of God.” Not only this, but then he defines this word of God as the teachings of Moses, and lists the sixth commandment of the decalogue!

This is actually the Oral Tradition, some of which is also recorded in Scripture.

“And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.” (Luke 4:4)- again Jesus is speaking of the Holy Scriptures, otherwise He would not have said, “every” word of God.

Sorry? No - the Bible doesn’t sustain our lives, or cause us to continue breathing in and out, moment by moment. God does this.

“Every word of God is pure” (Prov. 30:5)- If this is speaking of Jesus, then how many Jesuses are there? :ehh:

No matter how many times Jesus is spoken forth from the Father’s mouth to create something new, He is always pure.

And there was no Bible - not even an Old Testament - in the time of the Psalms - the Psalms were sung, orally. It was many, many centuries before they began to be written down.

In the Parable of the sower, Jesus identified the seed as the word of God, but he identified HIMSELF as the sower! Here, we must understand that the testimony of Jesus itself is truly the word of God- (1 Thes 2:13). And since this testimony has been recorded for us in scripture, then logically- (rationally), the Holy Scriptures are the word of God!! Come one man, use your brain.

Jesus is both the Sower and that which is sown, just as He is both Priest and Victim. What we accept into our hearts when we are “the fertile ground” is not the Bible, but the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

 

[Walt_R]

There would be no Jesus without the Bible? This is your position?

No, God always existed. But the bible is a gift from God. God reveals to us through the bible what He wants us to know. What I meant is the bible is part of God’s plan for our salvation. I heard a Catholic preacher put it this way. You can sum up the whole bible in one Word-Jesus. Jesus fulfills the old testament. Jesus directly is the new testament.

God choose to reveal Himself through the bible.